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Are societies represented well in RPG games?

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Codex Year of the Donut
You are clearly completely missing the point. That's just some random magical shit, it has no connection whatsoever to the world's society or economics. In Skyrim nothing matters, you could just as well say the village residents are all secretly Dwemer wearing human skin, the world would be exactly the same.
I gave a minor example as a counterpoint to your hyperbole. I only know of Skyrim lore through what I've read, I can't stand the game itself.
you could just as well say the village residents are all secretly Dwemer wearing human skin,
The Dwemer are the skin of a reality-denying machine-god :M
 

Duralux for Durabux

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The TES games that do lore right (and has it reflected by the actual world you're shown in-game) are Morrowind and Daggerfall.

As far as I'm concerned, post-Morrowind TES lore is bad fanfiction that isn't canon.
 

Duralux for Durabux

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It's kinda sad that people keep forgetting that there are almost twice as many pre-Morrowind TES games as there are post-Morrowind ones.
Damn, i forgot battlespire, totally underrated game with an awesome character creation system after daggerfall.
brofist.png
 

DalekFlay

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But yeah, keep repeating the myth that modern life is sooooo much better than at any previous time in history. Wageslaving and paying massive amounts of money for rent and giving half your money to the state as taxes is truly the best way to live!

I don't even know where to begin with this shit. Even if you want to make some selective argument based on particular farmers, what about like... everything else? What about medicine, antibiotics and plentiful food? What about air-conditioning? What about voting? What about a post-WW2 world order that has mostly stopped constant vanity wars by world leaders? What about social safety nets for the lowest classes? What about electricity? What about transfer of information? What about goddamn fucking slavery? The idea that lower classes were better off hundreds of years ago is so baffling to me and just reeks of someone who never had any actual hardship so he thinks his tax bill is proof he's severely oppressed.
 

JarlFrank

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Voting is shit.

The post-WW2 world order is shit.

Democracy is a major reason why everything is shit today.

We live in a society where many people are alone and depressed, and yet this is supposed to be better than a medieval peasant's life who had a wife and kids and his entire village community to rely on?
There's more to life than material wealth.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Daggerfall represented societies magnificiently for it time. Big capitals,towns,small towns, bourg and farm are present in daggerfall (in 1996 that a fucking achievement right there that no over game have succeed to achieve). Also i have noticed that the population go outside when it's daylight and go to their home sleeping during night (seem simplistic hey? Morrowind removed that entirely even fucking witcher 3 did not have that). I have found no other rpgs even today that do the same thing. The game has a reputation system that influence the behavior if you are in wayrest ,it is different from daggerfall (sure All of the points i have quoted are badly executed in the game(for 1996 it's excusable ). It's 2020 now, and Daggerfall is still revolutionnary from today standart.
In response to author thread, games nowadays represent societies very badly .( maybe Arcanum did it right if i remember correctly, Arcanum's npcs are really good in term of being believable in their role in life )
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
You are clearly completely missing the point. That's just some random magical shit, it has no connection whatsoever to the world's society or economics. In Skyrim nothing matters, you could just as well say the village residents are all secretly Dwemer wearing human skin, the world would be exactly the same.
I gave a minor example as a counterpoint to your hyperbole. I only know of Skyrim lore through what I've read, I can't stand the game itself.
you could just as well say the village residents are all secretly Dwemer wearing human skin,
The Dwemer are the skin of a reality-denying machine-god :M

The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will? And what did they do with it? Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.
Or in Skyrim when they introduced a Alduin, a mythical avatar of the god of time that destroys and creates new world to start a new cycle called Kalpa just to explain why a player needs to run around the vikingland killing dragons until he finds and defeats the biggest baddest dragon there is. Perhaps they should make an interesting game instead of making an interesting explanation for why is the game so boring.
It's like Star-Trek introducing the amazing technology allowing people to create super-sophisticated androids just to explain why a robot character obviously looks like a human being with a paint on his face instead of looking like a goddamn robot.
 

Lhynn

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Wow this is really the most downer comment ever. But let me try to salvage your opinion, as the let's say "producer" of this game. So the game is actually written by the lead writer who was added to the project due to his portfolio and successes (master of creative writing from Brunel University London, published some novels, wrote a small game for us which was so cool that Humble Bundle added it to its Originals list, etc).
Fuck off with those retarded credentials, if you are writing for an rpg you get someone that has DMed a couple successful pnp campaigns. Understanding what a player wants is a lot more important than writing pretty prose.
 

luj1

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luj1

You're all shills
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The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will? And what did they do with it? Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.
Or in Skyrim

Sorry but you get a retarded rating.

The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will

That was Kirkbride

Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.

That was Todd. He opted for a more generic fantasy and pulled the trigger, because Oblivion was their big console break. You can't view TES lore (or TES games) as a uniform body of work, as if one person made it.
 
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Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Dragon Age Origins especially Dwarf Kingdom the Human Kingdoms were slightly more current year England, France and Eastern Rome with even its own muslim invaders aka Kunari, Elves were lumpenproles and Wild Elves were Gypsies but Dwarfs with their clan, class and family structure were most interesting part of game, with castles Dwarfs only way to climb up the ladder being either joining the Legion, Gay Wardens or becoming Paragon and hence progenitor of new Noble House... or making a baby with higher caste male. :lol: Aside from this game Morrowind although the devs must have plagiarized from Josephus and Gospels, Arcanum which was clever take on industrial revolution in fantasy land and New Vegas for constructing post post apocalyptic society with much more internal coherence (Farms, Logicstics and supply and trade lines galore and way to disrupt them too) and political intrigue (Three mayor factions to choose and half dozen minors) than FO3 had. From never games Age of Decadence and ATOM were best ones in this regard Comrades.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will? And what did they do with it? Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.
Or in Skyrim when they introduced a Alduin, a mythical avatar of the god of time that destroys and creates new world to start a new cycle called Kalpa just to explain why a player needs to run around the vikingland killing dragons until he finds and defeats the biggest baddest dragon there is. Perhaps they should make an interesting game instead of making an interesting explanation for why is the game so boring.
It's like Star-Trek introducing the amazing technology allowing people to create super-sophisticated androids just to explain why a robot character obviously looks like a human being with a paint on his face instead of looking like a goddamn robot.
Skyrim is a total nonsense.
Why there is more bandits than Villagers or non-highwaymen?
Why there are many Bandits camp just outside capitals and cities?Isn't that dangerous for them at being expose to the guard and encouring the risk of being thrown in jail?
Why the guards ain't cleaned the bandits camps?
Why the guard never sleep?
Why there is no politics crisis between different cities ?( instead of the shitty "oh i'm pissed of Ulfric Stormcloack shit" by Baalgruf( i had to check out their names because they are that bad written i don't even remind their names))
Why the world feels so static?
Why everybody react exactly the same at my presence???(Daggerfall's npcs react diferently and that game is fucking 24 years old.)
 
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Messages
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will? And what did they do with it? Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.
Or in Skyrim

Sorry but you get a retarded rating.

The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will

That was Kirkbride

Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.

That was Todd. He opted for a more generic fantasy and pulled the trigger, because Oblivion was their big console break. You can't view TES lore in a way that is the same in all cases and at all times.

I'm judging the end result, which is what it is. I also forgot about Dragonbrake - a fantastical world-altering event that was put there to explain why they just couldn't decide on which Daggerfall ending is canon. Classic.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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When you write things like "TES games use crazy out of this world lore to explain generic fantasy garbage" you have to realize you are talking about 2 different eras. Before Oblivion TES games used crazy lore to explain a crazy world, after Morrowind TES games used crazy lore to explain a generic world.

Also let me add that Kirkbride + Rolston was the best creative duo Bethesda ever had. Meanwhile Todd + Hines did everything in their power to butcher the artistic aspect of videogame design. It's not a coincidence that Morrowind was their last PC game.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Kirkbride + Rolston was the best creative duo Bethesda ever had.
Rolston was a bad designer remember that he was lead designer on Oblivion. He approved all of the stupid shit in it. He was responsible for the "no betrayal rule ". That explain quite a bit why every npcs in Oblivion are fucking retarded.
Edit:https://www.google.com/search?q=lea...9i60.4556j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ons-lead-designer-retirement-interview.13289/
I prefer news coming from Vault Dweller
Ken rolston wanted to make the game for the "kool kitz".As such he deserves the " bad designer" title
 
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luj1

You're all shills
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Fake news.

In Morrowind, I essentially wrote the outline of all the quest lines. There were only three designers, so that was practical. And I made an awful lot of the content myself.

With Oblivion, I made hardly any of the content myself, just a few scraps in the main quest and a couple of different quests. So my design was changed from a highly centrally controlled, centrally authored content to something which had as many different voices as possible.

Q&A: Ken Rolston's development secrets of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
When you write things like "TES games use crazy out of this world lore to explain generic fantasy garbage" you have to realize you are talking about 2 different eras. Before Oblivion TES games used crazy lore to explain a crazy world, after Morrowind TES games used crazy lore to explain a generic world.

Also let me add that Kirkbride + Rolston was the best creative duo Bethesda ever had. Meanwhile Todd + Hines did everything in their power to butcher the artistic aspect of videogame design. It's not a coincidence that Morrowind was their last PC game.

That's why I specifically said "many TES games" not just "TES games". And Morrowind itself had the trouble with mentioned Dragonbrake, a potentially interesting piece of lore that is used exactly once to explain a cope-out and then thrown into a trash bin. Sure it's not such a big issue in Morrowind, but Morrowind is such a good game by itself that it wouldn't suffer much if all the deep lore was deleted entirely.
And speaking of Morrowind I just remembered another one. Almalexia is apparently offended by people flying around so she used her awesome godlike powers to stop people from flying. Of course in reality players are forbidden from flying because otherwise they could easily see that there is nothing beyond the city walls.
If you want to defend Kirbryke rather than individual games I can accept that he genuinely wanted to create something interesting are just Todd Howard butting-in and interfering with his creation. I don't know much about what happened behind the scenes. The mytery of the Dwemers is one of the few examples where more esoteric lore is utilized for something interesting and actually enhances the game in some way.
 

DarKPenguiN

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The problem with many TES games is that they use some crazy out of the world lore to explain why 90% of the world is the most uninspired fantasy garbage imaginable. Like when they revealed that the entire word is a dream and if you are aware that you are in a dream you can influence the world around you and bend reality to your own will? And what did they do with it? Used it to explain why the middle of the Empire is a boring European fantasy land instead of a jungle like it was supposed to.
Or in Skyrim when they introduced a Alduin, a mythical avatar of the god of time that destroys and creates new world to start a new cycle called Kalpa just to explain why a player needs to run around the vikingland killing dragons until he finds and defeats the biggest baddest dragon there is. Perhaps they should make an interesting game instead of making an interesting explanation for why is the game so boring.
It's like Star-Trek introducing the amazing technology allowing people to create super-sophisticated androids just to explain why a robot character obviously looks like a human being with a paint on his face instead of looking like a goddamn robot.
Skyrim is a total nonsense.
Why there is more bandits than Villagers or non-highwaymen?
Why there are many Bandits camp just outside capitals and cities?Isn't that dangerous for them at being expose to the guard and encouring the risk of being thrown in jail?
Why the guards ain't cleaned the bandits camps?
Why the guard never sleep?
Why there is no politics crisis between different cities ?( instead of the shitty "oh i'm pissed of Ulfric Stormcloack shit" by Baalgruf( i had to check out their names because they are that bad written i don't even remind their names))
Why the world feels so static?
Why everybody react exactly the same at my presence???(Daggerfall's npcs react diferently and that game is fucking 24 years old.)
Too many blacks in Skyrim-

Used to be a nice place where things made sense and then they let the colored move in and the whole place went to hell.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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The mytery of the Dwemers is one of the few examples where more esoteric lore is utilized for something interesting and actually enhances the game in some way.

There is much more of those examples that "a few". You have the concept of CHIM, the fact that Corpus is not a disease, the Sermons, the genesis of the Dreugh, the kalpas, Lorkhan's heart, the Numidium, off the top of my head.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Edit:https://www.google.com/search?q=lea...9i60.4556j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ons-lead-designer-retirement-interview.13289/
I prefer news coming from Vault Dweller
Ken rolston wanted to make the game for the "kool kitz".As such he deserves the " bad designer" title

No, you are just retarded and can't read. From your own source:

I prefer Morrowind's partially recorded dialogue, for many reasons. But I'm told (sic) that fully-voiced dialogue is what the kids want. Fully-voiced dialogue is less flexible, less apt for user projection of his own tone, more constrained for branching, and more trouble for production and disk real estate.

As team structure changed from centralized to "many different voices" it is clear that Rolston's creative role diminished dramatically in Oblivion as proven by first-hand accounts, you just dug up a scrambled 2006 thread to prove my very point.
 

DalekFlay

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Voting is shit.

The post-WW2 world order is shit.

Democracy is a major reason why everything is shit today.

We live in a society where many people are alone and depressed, and yet this is supposed to be better than a medieval peasant's life who had a wife and kids and his entire village community to rely on?
There's more to life than material wealth.

God, the political stances on this forum sometimes. "I long for the days of feudal lords, absolute monarchies and no antibiotics or electricity!" It's internet retardation distilled into its purest form.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
No, you are just retarded and can't read. From your own source:



As team structure changed from centralized to "many different voices" it is clear that Rolston's creative role diminished dramatically in Oblivion as proven by first-hand accounts, you just dug up a scrambled 2006 thread to prove my very point.
Can you stop sucking Rolston's dick,can you?
After Oblvion, what did he do ? he made kingdom of amalur another stupid popamole game for the cool kid and there wasn't any todd howard or kind of involved in.
AND guess what, Kingdom of Amalur is full of stupid shit like Oblivion
Here is a hint of what i'm talking about https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...monstruosity-called-kingdoms-of-amalur.85653/.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Every developer has his peak, a career curve if you will, not unlike professional sport athletes. Avellone, Fargo, Henkel, Rolston, etc. I'm talking specifically about the work he had done for Morrowind and synergy with Kirkbride which will never be repeated. He had very little to do with Oblivion and was pushed to the sidelines. I have no idea where he is now or whats changed.
 

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