Decline What is the worst example of decline you have ever seen?

[Cryomancer]

Tyranny has cooldowns and blow/spell sponge enemies. Two things that i hate the most...

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Here is a long talk about Jay Wilson's changes do Diablo.

• Sorceress is too popular on D2 and Barb too unpopular, so lets make every class gear and plays like Barb. Now monks needs a big and sharp axe to deal unarmed damage (around 13m)
• A lot of affixes is too complicated to my dumb brain. Lets make everyone gearing towards weapon damage and stat stickie gear (this change RoS fixed) (around 12m)
• Potions are too good. Instead of making taking time to drink potions like on Dark Souls, Gothic and other games, lets add a mmosih cooldown on potions (18m)
• Characters are disposable. RPG's, doesn't matter if is the JRPG's or WRPG's, are always about characters. But for him, they are disposable.
• Necromancer was too well implemented on D2, so lets remove it and put a boring which doctor on D3. Because everyone dreams of being a which doctor in a fantasy world. Nobody wanna powers of life and death, poisons, voodoo is what people want.
• Also wow arstyle
• (...)

If you believe that women can be equal to men on the battlefield, congratulations you have swallowed feminist theory.

SOME, can. But always in small number. I an not against woman in military. But just put the same standards as man, if only a minority of woman can fit the standards so be it. Tyranny not only is contaminated with modern BS "diversity" but also with modern BS mechanics. Casting a very lackluster spell and waiting minutes to cast it again is not fun or engaging.

 

[DalekFlay]

Female mages and even rogues make perfect sense. I mean, in the real world who the fuck knows, but do I find the idea of a female dagger wielding sneaky assassin that out there? No, you can easily sell that. Many movies have sold that. It's fine.

Female knights/tanks... that's a whole other issue. To sell it you'd need a monster of a woman, like Brianne in Game of Thrones. The problem with games is they often make pretty little sticks into tanks wearing plate armor, which is fucking retarded. Dragon Age 2 and 3 both did this, as did Pathfinder. All three made me eyeroll.

 

[Cryomancer]

Archers in particular DalekFlay are something that needs to get more historically accuracy in games too. In most games, is a "DEX" weapon, when in reality, fully draw a heavy warbow requires a lot of strength. D&D 2e had the best martial rules, not only because plate armor actually has better AC vs slashes than vs blunt but also because bows like Heartseeker requires a lot of STR; in the case of Heartseeker, it requires 18 STR ( https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Heartseeker ) meaning that only the strongest humans in the world can actually use the bow.

 

[vazha]

Fluent's LPs, anyone?

 

[Thac0]

I cant really bring myself to see a game where everyone is either a retard or evil, including men and women, as specifically feministic. The only one who is really in charge in Tyranny is Kyros, by virtue of having more than 3 brain cells, and his gender is left ominous afaik. However I think I executed Verse very early into the game and she seemed like the character to me to make "threats to male genitalia".

There are two possible methods to change or relativate social positions of different groups. First method is to elevate one groups position. The second method is to lower the position of the other group.
Based on this you can say that feminiist propaganda will elevate women and or degrade the men, in terms of moral values, intelligence and competence.
If the men are retarded and incompetent while the women are more intelligent and competent, then you know that this is feminist propaganda. And further one can even state, that if the women have half of the position of power (which is gained through competence and intelligence) then this is feminist propaganda, since this contradicts the observed reality of different Gauss distribution ( in variance (squere of the standard deviation) ) of intelligence in both genders.

Now if you are meticulous you would go through all the characters in game and look how you can classify them; and based on this draw a ratio between the genders on intelligence, competence and position of power.
A reality based value would be 1:20 ( for one intelligent woman there are 20 intelligent men, but also for one retarded woman there are 20 retarded men) and if the difference is lower on the higher end then this is feminist propaganda.

If you have to go around and need to do advanced statistical analysis on wether a game is feminist propaganda or not, I feel it is much more plausible to say that it is not, and the odd points are lazy writing. When inexperienced women write stories the men end up useless in it, when men do the same happens to women. Its the reason old sci-fi tends to have women with as much agency as my furniture in the story. When slightly more experienced people write they often see the problem in their writing and oversteer in the opposite direction. Brandon Sanderson might not be the best author, but he has some free lectures on writing detailing this further, its quite interesting.

 

[bddevil]

Fallout 3 clearly, as it most obviously exemplifies the complete and utter defiling of a classic RPG into pants on head retardation.
.

I have to go with this as well. Not only did FO3 completely shit on the original fans, its popularity made casual gamers think of FO3 every time someone mentions the brand/IP.
Which, while helpful to weed out retards, is still fucking tear-inducing.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Which, while helpful to weed out retards, is still fucking tear-inducing.

Nowadays retards are everywhere, weeding out smart people would be way more helpful.

 

[Cryomancer]

its popularity made casual gamers think of FO3 every time someone mentions the brand/IP.

Yep. And Bugthesda manages to decline even more with fallout 4 and fallout 76... Fallout New Vegas is superior to FL4 not only as a RPG, but also as a shooter. Firearms are so cool on NV. Classy weapons like .45-70 brush guns, anti materiel rifles, due the retarded armor on FL4, there are no reason to use armor piercing rounds anymore... Shotguns are trash on99% of the game, but on new vegas with slugs and the knockdown perk(not sure about the name of the perk), it is so amazing. You can also use dragon breath and tons of rounds.

I have a similar problem with DOS2. If wasn't by people saying dumb shit like "dos2 is the modern baldur's gate", i would't have ANY problem with DOS2. DOS2 is nothing like BG2. DOS2 has a goofy writing, cooldowns, item fever, ludonarrative dissonance, only numeric progression after certain point among tons of other problems which i can list forever. I purchased it thanks to shadiversity and unfortunately could't get a refund due 2 hours police from steam.

 

[underground nymph]

for me it’s Baldur’s Gate 2. aka the great prophet of decline.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I cant really bring myself to see a game where everyone is either a retard or evil, including men and women, as specifically feministic. The only one who is really in charge in Tyranny is Kyros, by virtue of having more than 3 brain cells, and his gender is left ominous afaik. However I think I executed Verse very early into the game and she seemed like the character to me to make "threats to male genitalia".

There are two possible methods to change or relativate social positions of different groups. First method is to elevate one groups position. The second method is to lower the position of the other group.
Based on this you can say that feminiist propaganda will elevate women and or degrade the men, in terms of moral values, intelligence and competence.
If the men are retarded and incompetent while the women are more intelligent and competent, then you know that this is feminist propaganda. And further one can even state, that if the women have half of the position of power (which is gained through competence and intelligence) then this is feminist propaganda, since this contradicts the observed reality of different Gauss distribution ( in variance (squere of the standard deviation) ) of intelligence in both genders.

Now if you are meticulous you would go through all the characters in game and look how you can classify them; and based on this draw a ratio between the genders on intelligence, competence and position of power.
A reality based value would be 1:20 ( for one intelligent woman there are 20 intelligent men, but also for one retarded woman there are 20 retarded men) and if the difference is lower on the higher end then this is feminist propaganda.

If you have to go around and need to do advanced statistical analysis on wether a game is feminist propaganda or not, I feel it is much more plausible to say that it is not, and the odd points are lazy writing. When inexperienced women write stories the men end up useless in it, when men do the same happens to women. Its the reason old sci-fi tends to have women with as much agency as my furniture in the story. When slightly more experienced people write they often see the problem in their writing and oversteer in the opposite direction. Brandon Sanderson might not be the best author, but he has some free lectures on writing detailing this further, its quite interesting.

When we said the game is feminist people started claiming "there is no evidence that it is", then evidence is provided "If you have to go around and need to (to) use advanced statistical analysis..."

And no, Men and Women alike, regardless of their experience buy into this ideology and write this shit. In all places Men have been the allies of women to get them into these positions and further this sick social experiment.

 

[Jimmious]

True decline is when you make something really worse than its predecessor.
So Fallout 3, Oblivion and Dragon Age 2 are prime examples.
Torment Numanuma would be too, but it's an "indirect" successor

 

[Thac0]

I cant really bring myself to see a game where everyone is either a retard or evil, including men and women, as specifically feministic. The only one who is really in charge in Tyranny is Kyros, by virtue of having more than 3 brain cells, and his gender is left ominous afaik. However I think I executed Verse very early into the game and she seemed like the character to me to make "threats to male genitalia".

There are two possible methods to change or relativate social positions of different groups. First method is to elevate one groups position. The second method is to lower the position of the other group.
Based on this you can say that feminiist propaganda will elevate women and or degrade the men, in terms of moral values, intelligence and competence.
If the men are retarded and incompetent while the women are more intelligent and competent, then you know that this is feminist propaganda. And further one can even state, that if the women have half of the position of power (which is gained through competence and intelligence) then this is feminist propaganda, since this contradicts the observed reality of different Gauss distribution ( in variance (squere of the standard deviation) ) of intelligence in both genders.

Now if you are meticulous you would go through all the characters in game and look how you can classify them; and based on this draw a ratio between the genders on intelligence, competence and position of power.
A reality based value would be 1:20 ( for one intelligent woman there are 20 intelligent men, but also for one retarded woman there are 20 retarded men) and if the difference is lower on the higher end then this is feminist propaganda.

If you have to go around and need to do advanced statistical analysis on wether a game is feminist propaganda or not, I feel it is much more plausible to say that it is not, and the odd points are lazy writing. When inexperienced women write stories the men end up useless in it, when men do the same happens to women. Its the reason old sci-fi tends to have women with as much agency as my furniture in the story. When slightly more experienced people write they often see the problem in their writing and oversteer in the opposite direction. Brandon Sanderson might not be the best author, but he has some free lectures on writing detailing this further, its quite interesting.

When we said the game is feminist people started claiming "there is no evidence that it is", then evidence is provided "If you have to go around and need to (to) use advanced statistical analysis..."

And no, Men and Women alike, regardless of their experience buy into this ideology and write this shit. In all places Men have been the allies of women to get them into these positions and further this sick social experiment.

I am saying if the evidence for a feminist agenda is, that on average in this game, if the moralities are judged by a 20 point scale, the coifficient of morality of women is 1.15x higher than that of men, than maybe you are just paranoid. Not disregarding the evidence of feministic agendas in media, The Critical Drinker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-e5bptEFIM&t=14s this is the video that blew him up) is a youtube channel that busts these in a pretty amusing way, but I have not seen anything even coming close to a hint that Obsidian of all people hold an agenda like that.

What I am saying is that the "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER" and the "EVIL WHITE MAN" can often be the result of writing incompetence, not of malice. Not everytime a woman is onedimensionally written in a game it is the result of a global jewish conspiracy to empower women.

 

[Lord of Riva]

What I am saying is that the "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER" and the "EVIL WHITE MAN" can often be the result of writing incompetence, not of malice. Not everytime a woman is onedimensionally written in a game it is the result of a global jewish conspiracy to empower women.

Can we stop conflating this, I am not even *in the least* right leaning, have neither issue with the opposite sex nor the race or sexual orientation of others. Unlike the feminists btw.

You can claim that Obsidian is is not participating in this, i can point you to to Tyranny though as evidence. But regardless, the game was published by *Paradox* do you honestly want to tell me that they aren't completely down with this? I assure you if you asked them if they believed in feminism you would get a resounding yes.

 

[Thac0]

Can we stop conflating this, I am not even *in the least* right leaning, have neither issue with the opposite sex nor the race or sexual orientation of others. Unlike the feminists btw.

Sure thing, I wasnt trying to imply that you were right wing, my point was just that stuff which looks like agendawriting for anything can often have a lot simpler explanation in new and unskilled writers. Occams Razor and all.

What I am saying is that the "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER" and the "EVIL WHITE MAN" can often be the result of writing incompetence, not of malice. Not everytime a woman is onedimensionally written in a game it is the result of a global jewish conspiracy to empower women.

You can claim that Obsidian is is not participating in this, i can point you to to Tyranny though as evidence. But regardless, the game was published by *Paradox* do you honestly want to tell me that they aren't completely down with this? I assure you if you asked them if they believed in feminism you would get a resounding yes.

I forgot that Paradox was the publisher of Obsidian. They sure do have an SJW agenda somewhere, VTM: B2 seems to be shaping up to be quite poltical. But I still dont see a stretch of that in Tyranny.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I forgot that Paradox was the publisher of Obsidian. They sure do have an SJW agenda somewhere, VTM: B2 seems to be shaping up to be quite poltical. But I still dont see a stretch of that in Tyranny.

Occams razor applies here, the people publishing quite openly state what their goals are. It is the easier explanation that they make a story based on their openly stated believes than solely incompetence.

None of the games published by paradox are save from that, including Battletech, Tyranny, Crusader Kings (have you read the updates ? ) why would Tyranny be the exception to the rule? Even more if we have elaborated on *why* this is the case.

The real question is, what amount of SJW behavior and content has to be reached for someone who claims to not be an SJW to accept that they are pushing the Agenda? Is this even possible?
Society as a whole has already accepted feminism as Gospel, just imagine for a second if the whole Patriarchy theory is actually wrong, in that case everyone not saying anything is allowing for a huge group of people to be openly hated, socially excluded and often even put in jail based on a immutable characteristic.

Imagine the reverse, no better don't, just read in history books what happens.

 

[Thac0]

The real question is, what amount of SJW behavior and content has to be reached for someone who claims to not be an SJW to accept that they are pushing the Agenda? Is this even possible?

This point is long since passed. As a classic liberal I mostly get along with anyone, be it alt right, communist, sjw or whatever in political discussions. They all hate me and I hat all of them. But even my communist and socialist friends do not even dispute the JSW agenda at this point, it has become so extremely obvious its not even hidden in plain sight, its just in plain sight.

Imagine the reverse, no better don't, just read in history books what happens.

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

 

[Lord of Riva]

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

There are no two-sides here. There is only feminists and those who aren't and that isn't "another" group. And, unless you were born without sex you have a stake in this, irregardless of believing you do or not. Just pointing out that you use the word "gender" instead of sex shows how far down the road we are. (although it is worse in german with Geschlecht vs. Gender as it's denglish to boot)

 

[Thac0]

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

There are no two-sides here. There is only feminists and those who aren't and that isn't "another" group. And, unless you were born without sex you have a stake in this, irregardless of believing you do or not. Just pointing out that you use the word "gender" instead of sex shows how far down the road we are. (although it is worse in german with Geschlecht vs. Gender as it's denglish to boot)

I am German... Gender and Sex are both Geschlecht so who cares what english word I choose?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

I don't this that SJWs will be well remembered at all. People will learn about them when researching something else and then forget. Like "did you know that demons and devils are named Tanar'ri and Baatezu because there was a religious panic and they wanted to avoid offending people by sticking Demons and Devils in the game" it will be like "did you know that in the Descend into Avernuss module there is an agender martial artist Garmul because there was a gender panic back then and they had to put NPCs like that in the game to show that they are not bigoted".

 

[Lord of Riva]

I am German... Gender and Sex are both Geschlecht so who cares what english word I choose?

That is incorrect. Geschlecht is sex and Gender is Geschlechterrolle, if you look into it's origin. In general the whole stuff is based on the Genus of a word though, you know Der Bäcker vs. die Bäckerin there is no actual sex (Geschlecht) in the word, well that was until feminists claimed it was.

 

[Thac0]

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

I don't this that SJWs will be well remembered at all. People will learn about them when researching something else and then forget. Like "did you know that demons and devils are named Tanar'ri and Baatezu because there was a religious panic and they wanted to avoid offending people by sticking Demons and Devils in the game" it will be like "did you know that in the Descend into Avernuss module there is an agender martial artist Garmul because there was a gender panic back then and they had to put NPCs like that in the game to show that they are not bigoted".

Realistic take, but pretty boring. People are probably making a mountain out of a molehill on this whole sex/gender thing.

Geschlechterrolle

Literally noone uses that word here in germany. For all intents and purposes sex and gender are synonymous for germans.

Der Bäcker vs. die Bäckerin

This is actually the only thing in the whole debate where I have a strong opinion. These faggot cucks that brought Bäcker*in to germany can go fuck themselves and jump off a cliff. It is an offense to our beautfifull efficient anguage.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Literally noone uses that word here in germany. For all intents and purposes sex and gender are synonymous for germans.

And the reason for that is that it is technical Term in pedagogics and sociology. Which is EXACTLY what they are going for, if you use Gender (Geschlechterrolle) in the context of biological sex you are conflating the two even though they are not related in the least. But Geschlecht and Geschlechterrolle ARE not the same, so you should not use the term Gender interchangably with Geschlecht.

Basically now, with Gender everyone uses geschlechterrolle without them knowing.

If sex is the same as Gender though you can start claiming it is changable, by choice. That is exactly how they went about normalising this and most people just do not realise this, or ignore it because they thinks it is not their problem.

This is actually the only thing in the whole debate where I have a strong opinion. These faggot cucks that brought Bäcker*in to germany can go fuck themselves and jump off a cliff. It is an offense to our beautfifull efficient anguage.

It's great that you see some of it at least, the Geschlecht/Gender thing is absolutely the same though, you just need to realize it.

 

[Darkzone]

The real question is, what amount of SJW behavior and content has to be reached for someone who claims to not be an SJW to accept that they are pushing the Agenda? Is this even possible?

This point is long since passed. As a classic liberal I mostly get along with anyone, be it alt right, communist, sjw or whatever in political discussions. They all hate me and I hat all of them. But even my communist and socialist friends do not even dispute the JSW agenda at this point, it has become so extremely obvious its not even hidden in plain sight, its just in plain sight.

Imagine the reverse, no better don't, just read in history books what happens.

As someone with no stake in this gender culture wars thing, I am quite interested to observe how it will turn out. Both sides claim that history will remember them as the heroes and the other side as the nazis who will have to hide their stance to their grandchildren. Some people thing the SJW will be remembered like the SS or SA, some thing the anti SJWs will. I do however feel like the tide is turning against the SJWs, public reponses to stuff like the Safespace and Snowflake heroes make it pretty clear that the general populace is fed up with political correctness aswell.

You are here in the state of limbo. I know this, because i been there and done that. As a traditional liberal you are a product of the european western culture and its philosophical tradition, hence you main concern should be its preservation if not even propagation.
History is written by the victor, therefore it is clear how the history will speak about both sides no matter the current outcome. For a very knowledgeable person everything is now obvious nevertheless an explanation is required:
The victor in a conflict is the last man standing, and this makes it for the SJW side difficult since their politics reduce their own fertility (therefore even a comparision with a mental illness is correct). Conservative and right wing politics preserves the nation, family and its traditions by propagating it through generations to their offspring. This is confirmed by the observations in USA, where it is even shown that conservative retain their attitudes throughout the generations and are are less likely to change it. The most reproductive groups are the most religious once and this is true across all nations ( for USA 30%-50% more offspring).
Therefore the progressives try to go after to the most vulnerable with their indoctrination: the children. This explains why the LGBT agenda is pushed to schools and even kindergartens by the state and interest groups.
But what happens if this indoctrination becomes mandatory and success in all western nations?
Simply told the european culture will be superseded by other cultures that are less liberal and are more authoritarian if not even totalitarian. There are only two possible candidates for this: Islamism or Communism. And both will dispose for different reasons of this degenerate groups.
There is no liberal freedom in communism or in Islam, there is only death to the those who do not submit. So yes this groups are sawing away the branch that they are sitting upon.
Therefore there are no bystanders to this conflict, there are only the complacent that support one side or the other by ignorance or by the lack of virtue.

As you see no matter the current course the outcome is the same for this groups, while it is not the same for the european nations as a whole. So choose, but choose wisely.

 

[Zarniwoop]

No Kingcomrade option, but it should be China.

I choose that.

 

[Lord of Riva]

As you see no matter the current course the outcome is the same for this groups, while it is not the same for the european nations as a whole. So choose, but choose wisely.

I am not going to roll this whole issue up in that direction as well. Change is good and necessary you can not just sit around doing nothing to conserve what is. The world is in flux all the time and societies that do not change simply fail. It is the extremes that harm.