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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

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Alphard

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NG+ is just easy mode. If you feel like toying around with tools then go ahead, but even your sword "breaks" the game at that point.
If you really want to be able to play around with tools more - install a Spirit Emblem Capacity mod and go for a fresh run. I always use this one now so I could go ham with prosthetics/ninjutsus/combat arts on regular enemies.
kuroless make ng+ bosses much harder, at least it did for me. especially the bull and old isshin.
also make game frustrating as hell . do not recommend
 
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kuroless make ng+ bosses much harder, at least it did for me. especially the bull and old isshin.
also make game frustrating as hell . do not recommend

I still don't care enough to do a "no Kuro charm" run. I am keeping Demon Bell on always now, but I'm too used to having those perfect blocks at this point I think. No Kuro run would force to become even more of a parry fag than I already am, I'd rather toy around with other stuff game has to offer.
 
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Alphard

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kuroless make ng+ bosses much harder, at least it did for me. especially the bull and old isshin.
also make game frustrating as hell . do not recommend

I still don't care enough to do a "no Kuro charm" run. I am keeping Demon Bell on always now, but I'm too used to having those perfect blocks at this point I think. No Kuro run would force to become even more of a parry fag than I already am, I'd rather toy around with other stuff game has to offer.
some bosses i feel become way too unbalanced if you are do not have korean blood in your vein to perfect parrry almost everything.
the demon bell is fine i found, and doesnt make the game excessively harder
 
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Alphard

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the major problem with kuroless is that adds too much pressure and stress on you. knowing that you will take damage ( a lot in case of bosses) if you are not perfect takes the enjoyment out of the game. i made a kuroless ng+ shura ending run and old isshin was insanely difficult and after having done it i felt no satisfaction , only relief and never picked up sekiro again
 

Silva

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Good to know, I'm keeping the kurocharm then.

What do the bell does?

P.S: Multidirectional I'm on PS4 so can't use mods. A pity as the one you cite sounds right my alley. More freedom to play with tools is exactly what I wanted of the game.
 
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What do the bell does?

Increase enemy HP/posture and damage they deal, also adds better drops to regular enemies.

P.S: Multidirectional I'm on PS4 so can't use mods. A pity as the one you cite sounds right my alley. More freedom to play with tools is exactly what I wanted of the game.

Does PS4 even run this at stable 60 FPS? I remember seeing a video that claimed it can only manage it at 40s. If true I can't imagine how you're even playing it, doesn't seem like anything below stable 60 would be tolerable in this game for me. And yes, the Spirit Emblem capacity in this game is just way too low, that's why I won't play without that mod anymore.
 
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cvv

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Yeah NG+ is p. boring, like in every game Miyazaki has ever done. His autism makes him hate interesting NG+.

But if you care about achievements you have to do at least one NG+.
 

Fishy

Savant
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Jan 24, 2019
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Ireland
I loved the NG+. Felt like getting a tourist-mode reward after completing the game once. It's nice having all the tools too, and not having to bother hunting stuff down. I didn't bother pushing past that into 3/4/5/84723098 cycles, but that first playthrough with all the toys (well, apart from the few that required more lapis lazuli to complete) was enjoyable.
 

Silva

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Some neat tidbit I've found out while watching a Vaatividya vid in YT:

"One interesting bit of info that is fundamental to all of Miyazaki's works: a broken/severed left arm is the symbol of failure of duty, which he got from Guts and put consistently in most games; Artorias is one of the greatest examples, and in Sekiro there's three more: Orangutan, Sekiro and the Dragon. Pretty sure there are more, but can't recall. So, to extend your information, the Divine Dragon not having his left arm is a 100% certain symbol that he, too, has failed his duties, which is likely to be the reason why he fled East to Japan."

Someone else also implied the traditional look of ronin wearing dogi/kimono with loose arm sleeves (while the arm sits comfortably inside) would also be related to this. Apparently, while withdrawing the arms helps with the cold and everybody in Japan did it, it wasn't cool for proper samurai do that it in the presence of important people, while ronin didn't give a crap. (but I can't check the veracity of this)

Does PS4 even run this at stable 60 FPS? I remember seeing a video that claimed it can only manage it at 40s. If true I can't imagine how you're even playing it, doesn't seem like anything below stable 60 would be tolerable in this game for me.
I think it's between 30 and 45 fps here. It's definitely better than BB which was capped at 30. It's doable but yeah, it makes the game a little harder. I know because I've played For Honor both on PC and PS4 (60 x 30 fps) and it makes difference.
 
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Cosmo

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Messages
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Project: Eternity
, the Divine Dragon not having his left arm is a 100% certain symbol that he, too, has failed his duties, which is likely to be the reason why he fled East to Japan."

It's way more likely that it was done by owl, who ripped off the sakura tree branch and thus severed the arm.
 

Black Angel

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By the way, about prosthetic tools:

My impression so far is that they definitely have an impact on bosses, but I ain't finding it a very elegant implementation of the concept. What I wish prosthetic did was opening up new avenues of engagement that you could focus and develop according to personal style. What it does is making bosses a gimmick guess game, where you have a dozen or more tools and have to guess the right one that devs chose for this one boss (the choice not always apparent).

That's a pretty old school mindset, I give you that, and if that's the intention then kudos for the devs. But I can't stop wondering how the game would have been if say, focusing on spear prosthetic upgrades allowed me to become a lancer shinobi specialist, not so different from a build in DS, and tackle challenges lancer-style ways. More or less like Dishonored let's you focus on certain abilities opening up stylistic avenues of play. But this would probably make the game too easy for From standards.
Prosthetics, and to an extent combat arts and latent skills, does opens up new avenues of approaching and engaging enemies and bosses. While at a glance the skill trees and prosthetic upgrades gave an impression that there's some sort of RPG mechanics in there, ultimately you would want to take most, if not all, of the skills and prosthetic upgrades, for the sake of opening up as much option as possible when trying to approach certain fights.

This guy, for example:

Made me realize that Umbrella deflection can actually be used to deflect attacks which, if deflected normally, would push Sekiro back like Owl's charged slash after a single shuriken or Monk's last spinning slash, without actually being pushed back. You can also see in this video and the others where he deliberately *NOT* using Mikiri Counter against perilous thrusts, to keep the flow of deflection going and build up the posture bar slowly but surely, instead of using Mikiri which would cause bosses to step back and regain their posture.

And then there is an extreme example such as this:


Also, if you experiment a bit, for example the jump after Shadowrush can be followed up with a mid-air prosthetic, such as the Loaded Axe, which would inflict significant posture damage while staggering most targets, allowing you to continue your offensive to either whittle down vitality or posture, and the Loaded Axe actually connect faster from mid-air than while on the ground.

But yeah, the Loaded Spear in particular is very limited in its application. There's only 2 bosses where the spear is actually useful, the Headless Ape (which would count as twice encounters), and Shigekichi (?) the Red Guard boss which is just another variation of Juzou the Drunkard sadly, and even then only until his armor is completely stripped. However, I still think it's fun trying to find which combination of skills, combat arts, and prosthetic tools can yield most fun out of experimentation.

Anyway, while I agree with others that NG+ is just easy mode because you gain access to all skills, combat arts, and prosthetic tools you unlocked in previous run, I think it's still fun seeing how you can change your approach against early game bosses with combat arts and prosthetic tools you gained later, with prosthetic later upgrades. Lady Butterfly, for example, is an early boss whom a lot of times you'll fight with base shuriken, so to me finding out she's completely vulnerable to charged Spring-top(?) Shuriken/Gouging Top when she jumped was very satisfying.
 

Silva

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My NG+ run became pretty boring. While the possiblity to troll early bosses with prosthetics felt good, the lack of exploration for prosthetics & skills & prayer beads meant the game became super empty, like a Boss challenge.

So I ended up restarting it from scratch and it's super fun again. Something I'm more conscious this time is the mini/bosses health and it's relation to posture. In my first playthrough I became too focused on the posture blan-blan-blan and ended up ignoring this detail. Now I'm exploring it much better.

I'm going to the Purifying ending this time. I've heard Papa Owl is a nice guy. :D


Edit:
Oh, and I think FROM really fucked up certain things here. Only 15 slips for prosthetic use is nonsensic, and having to spend lots of points just to increase it to 20 is bullshit. They could leave the base at 15 yeah but at least let us go to 30 or something. If I was on PC I would mod this shit away with no remorse.

Also, some skills like "slide to cover" and "air parry" are sooo bullshit. These should come learned from the start. I can understand this representing Wolf remembering his abilities and stuff but come on, it's too much. Miyazaki is such a miserly fucker. :argh:
 
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Silva

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Watch out. The English translation this time is a bit janky. A jap user on Fextralife wiki had this to say a out the Kusabimaru:

"The Japanese description is a little different from the English. It says: "Although a shinobi is bound by duty to kill, He must pay his own share of the price." I think that's a bit clearer to the meaning. Like the other guy here said: "As you cut your enemy so too do you cut yourself." A karma thing. The name is literally "Wedge," but it's supposed to be kinda ambiguous. Like the description says, the name itself is a mantra. The meaning is meant to be contemplated by the person who wields it."

Missed opportunity to give more weight to the game's themes.

Another misstep I found is when you kill Genichiro and take the "shinobi shortcut" back to the dilapidated temple. In English Wolf says the Sculptor saved the boy (which sounds nonsensic, frankly). In jap Wolf says "it's done, the boy is saved" and proceeds to thank the Sculptor for the help.
 
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Silva

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Cool piece of lore I've found on Reddit by user Sarumaru, regarding Japanese folklore involving serpents and centipedes. It surely gives the relation between Ashina and Senpou Temple a new perspective:

...As a distinctly Japanese game, the lore is this game draws heavily from the mythology of the land itself including many tales and legends from Japanese folklore. One of these famous stories provides a background for what I feel is a major inspiration in the design of the game. This legend in particular is that of the battle between the Serpents and the Centipedes. (Spoilers ahead obviously as we discuss key parts of the game.)

There are multiple legends in Japan of battles occurring between giant serpents and monstrous centipedes. Two such examples are the legend of Tawara Toda as well as the battle of the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara. In the legend of Tawara Toda, the hero Fujiwara no Hidesato came to a bridge where a giant serpent lay. Unafraid, he steps over the serpent only for it to disappear into the water and return as a beautiful woman. She comments on his bravery and asks for his assistance in slaying the giant centipede Ōmukade who had slain her children. After agreeing to help, he slays the beast by firing arrows into it's eyes and throat (depending on the story) and is rewarded with gifts from the woman including a bag of rice that will never empty. Meanwhile, there is another such legend in which the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara in Japan take the forms of a Centipede and Serpent respectively and battle. In this version, the Serpent recruits the help of a master archer by the name of Sarumaro to slay the Centipede in a similar fashion. So, knowing these tales there is already an obvious connection between the many Centipede and Serpent references in Sekiro, but let's take things a step further.

As we know, there are many encounters with both Serpents and Centipedes in Sekiro but they occur in two areas primarily. On one hand, the Serpents are clearly representative of the Ashina with the numerous references that can be found in and around Ashina castle. The giant serpents, the Dragon's Heritage, even going all the way to the Mist Nobles and the Divine Dragon in the Fountainhead Palace as well as the Giant Carp (A creature which also has connections to the Dragons in mythology). The connection between Ashina and the Serpents is made quite clear as well as their connection to immortality. On the other hand, the Centipedes are found primarily in one specific section of the game, Senpou Temple. The Monks of Senpou Temple on Mt. Kongo clearly have a deep connection to the centipedes that seems to relate to their quest for immortality. From the undying monks who are infested with giant centipedes, to the enemies that seem to go so far as to try and emulate the centipedes themselves, there is a clear connection between Senpou Temple and the Centipedes. The game also makes it clear that there is no love lost between the monks of Senpou Temple and the Ashina as Isshin himself speaks dismissively of the monks and the "rats" that they send to spy on him. But this seemingly mild separation between the two hints at a much deeper conflict that runs between them, Gold and Iron.

To understand this next step, we have to understand a little bit about Japanese history itself. During the Warring States period in Japan, there were two precious metals that meant more than anything, Gold and Iron. With precious metals such as Gold funding their war coffers, the Warlords could buy supplies, soldiers, and even bribe foes. Iron proved itself to be equally important due to it's necessity for the creation of weaponry with which one could defend themselves from their foes. Now in Japan, there were plenty of gold mines which could provide one with a sufficient treasury. A prime example being Takeda Shingen's gold mines which fueled his war efforts. Gold mines which were tended to by miners who would fight and protect the mines which they dug endlessly through the mountains, a specialist group that came to be called "Centipedes". These centipedes seemed to consider the centipedes a patron diety since gold veins would also be called centipedes do to the similarity in appearance to centipede tracks. Iron, meanwhile, was scarce in it's pure form and came primarily from Iron Sand. Iron Sand was obtained primarily from collecting the sediment from the roots of river plants or filtered out by washing mountain sediment into rushing rivers. Rivers that had since ancient times been considered the domain of Serpents and Dragons. Knowing this, which group is known primarily for the mountain on which they reside and which group has an almost addictive connection to water? The Senpou monks and the Ashina clan respectively.

With this knowledge, suddenly the story in Sekiro paints a clearer picture. Both groups have a connection to either the Centipedes or Serpents and make use of them in their quest for immortality. Both groups have a "Divine" child which they rely on as a means to that end and both groups have a connection to a precious metal. The Ashina, as representatives of the Serpent, are patrons of war. They rely on Iron to fuel their war they are on the verge of losing and rely heavily on the Fountainhead waters as their path to immortality through the Serpents. The Senpou monks, as representative of the Centipede, are patron of greed. They lost their way in their desire for immortality and hoard their wealth in their lavish temples on their mountain as they obtain immortality through the Centipedes. Together, they would have the Gold and Iron needed to defend the lands of Ashina. Instead, with the Centipede of Mt Kongo in conflict with the Serpent of Ashina, they are doomed to fall as they tear one another down. This could be why the Return ending of the game is considered the best ending, with the "Divine" children of both the Serpent and the Centipede coming together in order to find a different path. There are a few other connections and possible points in the lore to connect here (The significance of rice, why certain characters are "infested", and how this all pertains to Sekiro himself), but I feel that this explains the general reasoning as to why Centipedes and Serpents are so prevalent as well as a few of the other common themes within the game. If you made it this far I would like to thank you for reading and I hope you found it interesting as it is my first Lore post. I would also like to give credit to the manga "Munakata Kyouju Ikouroku" for giving me the inspiration for this theory.
 
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Tancred

Learned
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Jul 10, 2016
Messages
105
After two hours of pain, I have just now finally managed to defeat Owl (Father) for the first time. I ended up being confident against everything he threw at me except that one goddamn move where he throws out the firecrackers and instantly follows up with the sword. I couldn't reliably dodge it.

Still gotta beat Demon of Hatred and Isshin.
 
Joined
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Messages
7,306
After two hours of pain, I have just now finally managed to defeat Owl (Father) for the first time. I ended up being confident against everything he threw at me except that one goddamn move where he throws out the firecrackers and instantly follows up with the sword. I couldn't reliably dodge it.

Hah, that move of his is nothing but free damage opportunity for me, I always dodge forward at the right time now. I did endure a lot of pain first time fighting him though. Now I don't really find this fight any harder than the first Owl encounter anymore. Both great fights, easily among best in game.
 
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Tim the Bore

Scholar
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
109
Location
Potatoland
Cool piece of lore I've found on Reddit by user Sarumaru, regarding Japanese folklore involving serpents and centipedes. It surely gives the relation between Ashina and Senpou Temple a new perspective:

...As a distinctly Japanese game, the lore is this game draws heavily from the mythology of the land itself including many tales and legends from Japanese folklore. One of these famous stories provides a background for what I feel is a major inspiration in the design of the game. This legend in particular is that of the battle between the Serpents and the Centipedes. (Spoilers ahead obviously as we discuss key parts of the game.)

There are multiple legends in Japan of battles occurring between giant serpents and monstrous centipedes. Two such examples are the legend of Tawara Toda as well as the battle of the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara. In the legend of Tawara Toda, the hero Fujiwara no Hidesato came to a bridge where a giant serpent lay. Unafraid, he steps over the serpent only for it to disappear into the water and return as a beautiful woman. She comments on his bravery and asks for his assistance in slaying the giant centipede Ōmukade who had slain her children. After agreeing to help, he slays the beast by firing arrows into it's eyes and throat (depending on the story) and is rewarded with gifts from the woman including a bag of rice that will never empty. Meanwhile, there is another such legend in which the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara in Japan take the forms of a Centipede and Serpent respectively and battle. In this version, the Serpent recruits the help of a master archer by the name of Sarumaro to slay the Centipede in a similar fashion. So, knowing these tales there is already an obvious connection between the many Centipede and Serpent references in Sekiro, but let's take things a step further.

As we know, there are many encounters with both Serpents and Centipedes in Sekiro but they occur in two areas primarily. On one hand, the Serpents are clearly representative of the Ashina with the numerous references that can be found in and around Ashina castle. The giant serpents, the Dragon's Heritage, even going all the way to the Mist Nobles and the Divine Dragon in the Fountainhead Palace as well as the Giant Carp (A creature which also has connections to the Dragons in mythology). The connection between Ashina and the Serpents is made quite clear as well as their connection to immortality. On the other hand, the Centipedes are found primarily in one specific section of the game, Senpou Temple. The Monks of Senpou Temple on Mt. Kongo clearly have a deep connection to the centipedes that seems to relate to their quest for immortality. From the undying monks who are infested with giant centipedes, to the enemies that seem to go so far as to try and emulate the centipedes themselves, there is a clear connection between Senpou Temple and the Centipedes. The game also makes it clear that there is no love lost between the monks of Senpou Temple and the Ashina as Isshin himself speaks dismissively of the monks and the "rats" that they send to spy on him. But this seemingly mild separation between the two hints at a much deeper conflict that runs between them, Gold and Iron.

To understand this next step, we have to understand a little bit about Japanese history itself. During the Warring States period in Japan, there were two precious metals that meant more than anything, Gold and Iron. With precious metals such as Gold funding their war coffers, the Warlords could buy supplies, soldiers, and even bribe foes. Iron proved itself to be equally important due to it's necessity for the creation of weaponry with which one could defend themselves from their foes. Now in Japan, there were plenty of gold mines which could provide one with a sufficient treasury. A prime example being Takeda Shingen's gold mines which fueled his war efforts. Gold mines which were tended to by miners who would fight and protect the mines which they dug endlessly through the mountains, a specialist group that came to be called "Centipedes". These centipedes seemed to consider the centipedes a patron diety since gold veins would also be called centipedes do to the similarity in appearance to centipede tracks. Iron, meanwhile, was scarce in it's pure form and came primarily from Iron Sand. Iron Sand was obtained primarily from collecting the sediment from the roots of river plants or filtered out by washing mountain sediment into rushing rivers. Rivers that had since ancient times been considered the domain of Serpents and Dragons. Knowing this, which group is known primarily for the mountain on which they reside and which group has an almost addictive connection to water? The Senpou monks and the Ashina clan respectively.

With this knowledge, suddenly the story in Sekiro paints a clearer picture. Both groups have a connection to either the Centipedes or Serpents and make use of them in their quest for immortality. Both groups have a "Divine" child which they rely on as a means to that end and both groups have a connection to a precious metal. The Ashina, as representatives of the Serpent, are patrons of war. They rely on Iron to fuel their war they are on the verge of losing and rely heavily on the Fountainhead waters as their path to immortality through the Serpents. The Senpou monks, as representative of the Centipede, are patron of greed. They lost their way in their desire for immortality and hoard their wealth in their lavish temples on their mountain as they obtain immortality through the Centipedes. Together, they would have the Gold and Iron needed to defend the lands of Ashina. Instead, with the Centipede of Mt Kongo in conflict with the Serpent of Ashina, they are doomed to fall as they tear one another down. This could be why the Return ending of the game is considered the best ending, with the "Divine" children of both the Serpent and the Centipede coming together in order to find a different path. There are a few other connections and possible points in the lore to connect here (The significance of rice, why certain characters are "infested", and how this all pertains to Sekiro himself), but I feel that this explains the general reasoning as to why Centipedes and Serpents are so prevalent as well as a few of the other common themes within the game. If you made it this far I would like to thank you for reading and I hope you found it interesting as it is my first Lore post. I would also like to give credit to the manga "Munakata Kyouju Ikouroku" for giving me the inspiration for this theory.

Huh, that would be quite similiar to Bloodborne and Dark Souls. In Bloodborne the best ending is the one in which the Hunter managed to combine rational (Byrgenwerth) with irrational (the Healing Church) by eating... something. Metaphorically. In DS 3 the best ending is to reject both linking and dimming the flame - and steal it instead.

Nice find.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Cool piece of lore I've found on Reddit by user Sarumaru, regarding Japanese folklore involving serpents and centipedes. It surely gives the relation between Ashina and Senpou Temple a new perspective:

...As a distinctly Japanese game, the lore is this game draws heavily from the mythology of the land itself including many tales and legends from Japanese folklore. One of these famous stories provides a background for what I feel is a major inspiration in the design of the game. This legend in particular is that of the battle between the Serpents and the Centipedes. (Spoilers ahead obviously as we discuss key parts of the game.)

There are multiple legends in Japan of battles occurring between giant serpents and monstrous centipedes. Two such examples are the legend of Tawara Toda as well as the battle of the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara. In the legend of Tawara Toda, the hero Fujiwara no Hidesato came to a bridge where a giant serpent lay. Unafraid, he steps over the serpent only for it to disappear into the water and return as a beautiful woman. She comments on his bravery and asks for his assistance in slaying the giant centipede Ōmukade who had slain her children. After agreeing to help, he slays the beast by firing arrows into it's eyes and throat (depending on the story) and is rewarded with gifts from the woman including a bag of rice that will never empty. Meanwhile, there is another such legend in which the gods of Mt. Akagi and Mt. Futara in Japan take the forms of a Centipede and Serpent respectively and battle. In this version, the Serpent recruits the help of a master archer by the name of Sarumaro to slay the Centipede in a similar fashion. So, knowing these tales there is already an obvious connection between the many Centipede and Serpent references in Sekiro, but let's take things a step further.

As we know, there are many encounters with both Serpents and Centipedes in Sekiro but they occur in two areas primarily. On one hand, the Serpents are clearly representative of the Ashina with the numerous references that can be found in and around Ashina castle. The giant serpents, the Dragon's Heritage, even going all the way to the Mist Nobles and the Divine Dragon in the Fountainhead Palace as well as the Giant Carp (A creature which also has connections to the Dragons in mythology). The connection between Ashina and the Serpents is made quite clear as well as their connection to immortality. On the other hand, the Centipedes are found primarily in one specific section of the game, Senpou Temple. The Monks of Senpou Temple on Mt. Kongo clearly have a deep connection to the centipedes that seems to relate to their quest for immortality. From the undying monks who are infested with giant centipedes, to the enemies that seem to go so far as to try and emulate the centipedes themselves, there is a clear connection between Senpou Temple and the Centipedes. The game also makes it clear that there is no love lost between the monks of Senpou Temple and the Ashina as Isshin himself speaks dismissively of the monks and the "rats" that they send to spy on him. But this seemingly mild separation between the two hints at a much deeper conflict that runs between them, Gold and Iron.

To understand this next step, we have to understand a little bit about Japanese history itself. During the Warring States period in Japan, there were two precious metals that meant more than anything, Gold and Iron. With precious metals such as Gold funding their war coffers, the Warlords could buy supplies, soldiers, and even bribe foes. Iron proved itself to be equally important due to it's necessity for the creation of weaponry with which one could defend themselves from their foes. Now in Japan, there were plenty of gold mines which could provide one with a sufficient treasury. A prime example being Takeda Shingen's gold mines which fueled his war efforts. Gold mines which were tended to by miners who would fight and protect the mines which they dug endlessly through the mountains, a specialist group that came to be called "Centipedes". These centipedes seemed to consider the centipedes a patron diety since gold veins would also be called centipedes do to the similarity in appearance to centipede tracks. Iron, meanwhile, was scarce in it's pure form and came primarily from Iron Sand. Iron Sand was obtained primarily from collecting the sediment from the roots of river plants or filtered out by washing mountain sediment into rushing rivers. Rivers that had since ancient times been considered the domain of Serpents and Dragons. Knowing this, which group is known primarily for the mountain on which they reside and which group has an almost addictive connection to water? The Senpou monks and the Ashina clan respectively.

With this knowledge, suddenly the story in Sekiro paints a clearer picture. Both groups have a connection to either the Centipedes or Serpents and make use of them in their quest for immortality. Both groups have a "Divine" child which they rely on as a means to that end and both groups have a connection to a precious metal. The Ashina, as representatives of the Serpent, are patrons of war. They rely on Iron to fuel their war they are on the verge of losing and rely heavily on the Fountainhead waters as their path to immortality through the Serpents. The Senpou monks, as representative of the Centipede, are patron of greed. They lost their way in their desire for immortality and hoard their wealth in their lavish temples on their mountain as they obtain immortality through the Centipedes. Together, they would have the Gold and Iron needed to defend the lands of Ashina. Instead, with the Centipede of Mt Kongo in conflict with the Serpent of Ashina, they are doomed to fall as they tear one another down. This could be why the Return ending of the game is considered the best ending, with the "Divine" children of both the Serpent and the Centipede coming together in order to find a different path. There are a few other connections and possible points in the lore to connect here (The significance of rice, why certain characters are "infested", and how this all pertains to Sekiro himself), but I feel that this explains the general reasoning as to why Centipedes and Serpents are so prevalent as well as a few of the other common themes within the game. If you made it this far I would like to thank you for reading and I hope you found it interesting as it is my first Lore post. I would also like to give credit to the manga "Munakata Kyouju Ikouroku" for giving me the inspiration for this theory.

Huh, that would be quite similiar to Bloodborne and Dark Souls. In Bloodborne the best ending is the one in which the Hunter managed to combine rational (Byrgenwerth) with irrational (the Healing Church) by eating... something. Metaphorically. In DS 3 the best ending is to reject both linking and dimming the flame - and steal it instead.

Nice find.
Yeah, makes sense. It seems there's a dualist conflict at the heart of each game. In Souls and Bloodborne this is more apparent though, Sekiro seems more muddled somehow (or maybe it's my ignorance on Japanese themes).

Anyway, I'm almost sure a DLC is/was planned at some point. There's too much gaps and absent actors here.
 

Black Angel

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Stuck at Father Owl. Must have died 15 or 20 times already.

BUT I just got how to dodge his firecrackers.

His end is near.
Father Owl is definitely much harder, and yet more fun to fight because he's got more tricks up his sleeve while simultaneously being much more aggressive than Great Shinobi Owl.
 

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