Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[Average Manatee]

Kek. In addition to the special dragons, Imrik apparently also receives a special trait for each dragon tamed, which include additional breath attacks on every dragon factionwide, perfect vigor, regeneration, and additional stats.

Spoiler

I wish lords focused around units that actually need serious buffs to be viable in campaign got stuff like this. e.g. Malus's cold ones.

So the various Lord packs add in new mechanics?

Spoiler

basically, are any of them worth buying?

Depends, what exactly do you mean by "new mechanics"? Basically all the lords in the (WH2) lord packs have some kind of quirk to them and add new units to their faction.

Queen and the Crone: Meh. The lord-specific stuff wasn't that strong here (probably because it was the first). Units are OKish. Alarielle is pretty hot but its an overall fairly weak one.
Prophet and Warlock: Kind of essential to fill out the Skaven roster properly IMO. Also has two very powerful, cool lords. Best lord pack.
Hunter and the Beast: Playing the Empire in the New World is pretty cool but aside from that the new units are pretty uninteresting and the lizardmen lord is really trash to play since he's a horde. Weakest pack IMO.
Shadow and the Blade: Units are decent and the Lords have cool quirks. Average.

 

[Maculo]

So the various Lord packs add in new mechanics?

Spoiler

basically, are any of them worth buying?

I think so, particularly Tomb Kings. The rest depend on on whether you are hungry for something different or like a specific lord (Hellebron, Markus, Malus, Ikkit). Some of the lord packs offer a harder challenge (Malus) than others (Ikkit).

I wish lords focused around units that actually need serious buffs to be viable in campaign got stuff like this. e.g. Malus's cold ones.

That is what I find so crazy about Imrik. He gives useful buffs to Dragons and Dragon Princes, particularly stat buffs to Dragon Princes. Furthermore, his abilities help cavalry charges and he receives Dragon Princes early through a landmark building. His cool items are not tied to complete RNG. Meanwhile, Malus only receives recruitment, upkeep, and vigor loss reduction for Cold Ones, which does not help on higher difficulties.

He is a better Malus.

 

[Theodora]

Crazy how big this game is, can't imagine what it'll be like by the time Warhammer III's FLC/DLC cycle and Mortal Empires Mk. II is done.

 

[Drakron]

So the various Lord packs add in new mechanics?

Spoiler

basically, are any of them worth buying?

Lord packs are ... well, lets say you want Sisters of Avalon, you need The Queen and the Crone to get then and this is where things get iffy since Sisters of Avalon are pretty damn good units but they arent strictly necessary as part of the HE army, then you have the Skaven that pretty much need their Weapon Teams and Jezzails so you kinda want the Prophet and Warlock even if Tehe units are kinda bad, you pretty much buy Lord packs as unit Packs because all Skaven can recruit Weapon Teams as long you have the DLC with Ikkit own unique mechanic being simply he gets to build nukes. Its not what the Lord brings but what the DLC brings in terms of units.

As for Lords specific mechanics they are exclusive to the Lord on their campaign but they dont extend to the rest of faction, the Waaagh! mechanic is for all Greenskins and the updated version will go to all of then as Grom just gets as a unique mechanic the Cauldron that is using ingredients to create food that lasts 15 rounds and provides faction-wide buffs.

 

[Parabalus]

So the various Lord packs add in new mechanics?

Spoiler

basically, are any of them worth buying?

If you want to play as a particular race it's worth it to get all associated DLCs.

 

[BrotherFrank]

Got the vampire coasts dlc for my ongoing lockdown needs, never was interested in them lore wise but they are stupidly fun to play I gotta admit. Trigger happy undead with lots of spooky monsters? Yeah I can dig that. Their campaign flow is also how I imagine wood elves should play: fuck you I do what I want!
Basically travelling far and fighting whoever you feel like fighting without worrying about ground expansion and just having 1-2 provinces to worry about (if even that, with noctilus I never owned anything more then my cozy maelstorm hideout).

I heard they improved turn times even further.. I can finally play this game

Potion of speed update was one of the best things to happen to this game, I feel like end of turn times ain't really a problem anymore (they are lightning fast in vortex campaign and speedy enough in the grand campaign that you don't need to alt tab or wander off, just stretch a bit and bam the turn is done), the real bottleneck is now the battle load times, especially when exiting a battle and the game has to load back the campaign map.

So the various Lord packs add in new mechanics?

Spoiler

basically, are any of them worth buying?

As a rule, the lord packs tend to be optional, giving you themed units that are fun but not the core of the race (ex: warwagons and mortis corpse carts) and the lords usually have a gimmick that varies from letting you play your race in some theme more effectively (Herman Ghorst lets you emphasize zombies, volkmar lets you go crazy with flagellants so if you like those units then the lord pack would be worth it) to providing a radically different start to your usual options (skarsnik and belegar gives you more hardcore starts then other lords of their race whereas markus lets you play empire in the lands of lizards and elves).

The only main exception and "must have" if you care about skaven is indeed Prophet and the warlock. I still find it scummy because ratling guns and warp jezzails should have been part of the base skaven roster from the start, I was actually really salty when tw2 launched and they were missing, made skaven completely unplayable for me. Isn't about stats (I play with mods anyways so vanilla balance is a mystery to me) but when you think skaven, ratling guns are among the first units that will pop into your head, right after the masses of skaven infantry and doomwheels.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Vampire count's AI has a very strange habit of wandering around. I've heard rumors of Vlad travels, but as I was playing as Isabella VC I just saw Manfred packing his stuff and taking a trip all the way down to the badlands, just to change his mind and come back with his full depleted ost. Wtf! I thought he would stand his ground before Zufbar but no, just before that he also crossed all my territory and southern empire's just to pay a visit to can Angrund and come back. Don't think he evn fought over there.

 

[razvedchiki]

there is a mod that fixes the vampire counts ai
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1746425033

 

[A horse of course]

I asked Infinitron to post this a few days ago but he objected on the grounds that it would take attention away from another Obsidian post.

 

[AgentFransis]

I asked Infinitron to post this a few days ago but he objected on the grounds that it would take attention away from another Obsidian post.

That was fairly interesting. So Shogun (2000), Medieval (2002), Rome (2004), Medieval 2 (2006). In 2005 the company is sold to SEGA and the founder Tim Ansell leaves. Then they release Empire, Shogun 2, Rome 2 etc. Explains a lot.

 

[Theodora]

Didn't expect to see him tear-up like that. ;; Sure puts a human face on what we just know as "crunch".

 

[Average Manatee]

Potion of speed update was one of the best things to happen to this game, I feel like end of turn times ain't really a problem anymore (they are lightning fast in vortex campaign and speedy enough in the grand campaign that you don't need to alt tab or wander off, just stretch a bit and bam the turn is done), the real bottleneck is now the battle load times, especially when exiting a battle and the game has to load back the campaign map.

Turning down settings does improve battle load times and the campaign map return times a lot. Worth it IMO.

In my current Arkhan campaign I'm a bit annoyed at just how long battles can take. When you have two full stacks of skellies and the enemy has two full stacks of garbage brettonian melee and you corner camp, the AI literally takes like 10 minutes on max battle speed to slowly form up their huge fucking army and attack.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Potion of speed update was one of the best things to happen to this game, I feel like end of turn times ain't really a problem anymore (they are lightning fast in vortex campaign and speedy enough in the grand campaign that you don't need to alt tab or wander off, just stretch a bit and bam the turn is done), the real bottleneck is now the battle load times, especially when exiting a battle and the game has to load back the campaign map.

Turning down settings does improve battle load times and the campaign map return times a lot. Worth it IMO.

In my current Arkhan campaign I'm a bit annoyed at just how long battles can take. When you have two full stacks of skellies and the enemy has two full stacks of garbage brettonian melee and you corner camp, the AI literally takes like 10 minutes on max battle speed to slowly form up their huge fucking army and attack.

And then it's over in 5 minutes.

 

[Raghar]

In my current Arkhan campaign I'm a bit annoyed at just how long battles can take. When you have two full stacks of skellies and the enemy has two full stacks of garbage brettonian melee and you corner camp, the AI literally takes like 10 minutes on max battle speed to slowly form up their huge fucking army and attack.

Corner what?

 

[Dwarvophile]

In my current Arkhan campaign I'm a bit annoyed at just how long battles can take. When you have two full stacks of skellies and the enemy has two full stacks of garbage brettonian melee and you corner camp, the AI literally takes like 10 minutes on max battle speed to slowly form up their huge fucking army and attack.

Corner what?

I guess he meant waiting for the ennemies while camping in his corner of the map (which isn't a good idea most of the time when outnumbered).

 

[rashiakas]

well its cheating, because you can use the impassable mapborders to prevent flanking. Its also nice as undead because routing enemies will leave the battlefield instantly since you are fighting at the maps border.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Yes, but it's the opposite isn't it : since you are in the corner the mapborders is behind you and your fleeing units don't have time to rally, they leave the battlefield immediately. Or am I missing something ?

 

[AgentFransis]

Undead don't rout.

 

[Maculo]

well its cheating, because you can use the impassable mapborders to prevent flanking. Its also nice as undead because routing enemies will leave the battlefield instantly since you are fighting at the maps border.

I never really thought of corner camping as cheating, but I guess it qualifies as abusing the AI. On higher difficulties, the AI can produce so many armies with buffed stats, it just seems practical to use every advantage. Granted, it can make battles incredibly boring.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's a little bit cheesy but the fact that you can't decide where to fight is itself kind of bullshit. Since battlefields are randomized its pure luck whether you get an entirely open map or one with chokepoints/impassable terrain to use.

Aside from the routing thing, it decreases your melee surface area so your front line can hold out way longer and give the cavalry more time to continually rear-charge the enemy and archers more time to use all their ammo. And for death magic it gives more time to snipe the enemy lord with spirit leech, without that enemy lords are basically unstoppable wrecking balls.

 

[Jaedar]

I never really thought of corner camping as cheating, but I guess it qualifies as abusing the AI.

It is clearly abusing the boundaries of the abstraction. Still, there is no true cheating in singleplayer games since it's just you and the computer (and the computer doesn't care).

But also the AI is so dumb in this game that trying to have a "fair fight" is almost impossible anyway.

 

[Maculo]

I never really thought of corner camping as cheating, but I guess it qualifies as abusing the AI.

It is clearly abusing the boundaries of the abstraction. Still, there is no true cheating in singleplayer games since it's just you and the computer (and the computer doesn't care).

But also the AI is so dumb in this game that trying to have a "fair fight" is almost impossible anyway.

I feel a line or distinction exists between playing the game well and abusing a mechanic. For example, taking advantage of a hill for a better firing arc or using an obstacle (building) to protect a flank, versus making use of invisible walls. The AI could make use of the high ground or an obstacle for an advantage, although at random. Furthermore, you could make a different choice each battle and even fail to take advantage of a feature (e.g., bad positioning). In contrast, the AI is not programmed to make use of invisible walls, or to take the initiative on a siege map. This decision is the same regardless of the map (i.e., corner camping, siege battles). The former is the use of mechanics as designed, whereas the latter is one in which the AI might as well not exist.

Perhaps this is an entirely subjective and arbitrary line to draw. One that would also be unnecessary if the AI were a little better or the maps more varied.

 

[rashiakas]

It's a little bit cheesy but the fact that you can't decide where to fight is itself kind of bullshit. Since battlefields are randomized its pure luck whether you get an entirely open map or one with chokepoints/impassable terrain to use.

Aside from the routing thing, it decreases your melee surface area so your front line can hold out way longer and give the cavalry more time to continually rear-charge the enemy and archers more time to use all their ammo. And for death magic it gives more time to snipe the enemy lord with spirit leech, without that enemy lords are basically unstoppable wrecking balls.

While I mostly agree, the randomnes isnt true. What map you get depends on your position on the grand map. Like when you fight near a River, you get a River map etc.

 

[BrotherFrank]

As far as cheese goes, I actually put corner camping down as the least cheesy of the various ways you can game the system, sure you are using invisible walls to have a perfect choke but it actually screws you over if the enemy has a caster going crazy with wind spells or better ranged or artillery support due to how clumped up your army will be. So there are genuine downsides and it's no different to lucking out with maps and finding a spot that has a natural chokepoint with cliffs.

Dunno if any of you know of LegendofTotalWar, a youtuber specializing in total war games and has a gig where he tries to salvage people's campaigns or win unwinnable battles, but I've only seen him corner camp once, the dude is a cheese god and does things like using fliers aboard impassable terrain to make the ai sperg out or make the enemy army waste all their ammo by using a lord or hero as a bullet magnet instead. Those kinda tricks are far more effective against the ai but too cheap for my tastes.

 

[Average Manatee]

While I mostly agree, the randomnes isnt true. What map you get depends on your position on the grand map. Like when you fight near a River, you get a River map etc.

I've attempted to do this and failed, and random river maps will pop up where there aren't rivers. Similarly you can't guarantee fighting next to a mountain just because your army is next to a mountain, and so on.