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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

cosmicray

Savant
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
436
And who's really gaming on linux ? With the colossal amount of money gabe accumulated he could have made it a standard, instead it's still the subpar choice by far and not a real option.
They provide alternative option and that's what matters. Pushing linux hard won't do any good. And if it's not a gradual process, it won't work. Shoving Linux down people's throats will backfire.

kdlVINU.gif
Holy shit, is it really Gabe?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Linux went from being unable to play most modern windows titles to playing a massive majority of the steam catalogue at the same speed(or faster) with a single press of a button in about 2 years. The only games that don't work for me are the few online games that require rootkits "anti-cheat" garbage.
It's quite obvious why they did this after the initial failure of steam machines and are preparing to release another version of them.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Yes, that is exactly what I mean...

No, you mean Epic is so bad that nobody buys so they have to give away games for free. Herp derp, I don't like it so everything they do must be because they're so bad. Meanwhile when somebody else gives away free games they do it out of the goodness of their hearts alone with no ulterior motive.

Holy shit, is it really Gabe?

No, it's Bill.

Sadly it's just a PR-move to gain favorable reactions and boost their market share

Everything a company does that benefits the customers is primarily intended to benefit the company. And the two are not mutually exclusive. Making your customers happy is in itself a move that benefits your company.
Even giving away free games, when anyone does it, not only Epic, it's not out of charity.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
And I agree with Fronzel Neekburm on those who defend Steam vehemently because they fear losing their Steam catalog... because that made me realize that the Steam catalog is their own personal Social Credit-system: They don't dare put it at risk or they'll lose everything, so it must be defended at all costs.
What does that even mean? Why would anyone "fear losing their Steam catalog"? They already own the games, why would they lose them? What does their "Steam catalog" have to do with a "Social Credit-system"? Social Credit is used by a Totalitarian government to measure the "social reputation" of its citizens based on their level of obedience to the state. Steam is a Digital Distribution service for games. Put what at risk? Lose everything? Are you drunk?

Also it's still funny to me that some of the inmates itt after almost 2 years and 200 pages of repeating the same shit over and over again still haven't figured out that people aside from using Steam would also still preferably use other services like GOG, Battle.Net, Xbox Live, maybe even uPlay or Origin before they touch EGS. It's funny because we've been over this on page 2: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...le-war-comes-to-pc.125953/page-2#post-5913151

Although the situation since then has changed somewhat favorably for Gabe with Destiny 2 moving to Steam, Bethesda moving Fallout 76 to Steam and Microsoft releasing their Halo: Master Chief Collection on Steam. Even EA has started re-releasing their games on Steam with for instance Jedi: Fallen Order being a big hit and the C&C Remastered Collection coming up: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1213210/Command__Conquer_Remastered_Collection/

There must be something special about Epic Games Store that doesn't have anything to do with Steam, but what is it?
 
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Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
No, you mean Epic is so bad that nobody buys so they have to give away games for free. Herp derp, I don't like it so everything they do must be because they're so bad. Meanwhile when somebody else gives away free games they do it out of the goodness of their hearts alone with no ulterior motive.

The thing is, that is the only thing they do. I would respect them much more, even with Tencent investment money if they took all that spent money on free games and other shit and actually built a store that sold stuff.
 

Belegarsson

Think about hairy dwarfs all the time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Uwotopia
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There must be something special about Epic Games Store that doesn't have anything to do with Steam, but what is it?
EGS attracts the snowflakes that think they're fighting the good fight against the monopoly, cuz every Goliath must be taken down by a David. I have freaking 7 launchers on my computer including one solely for Guild Wars 2, I even used to use Desura, I don't give a shit about the number of launchers. What I give a shit about is Steam is the only one that automatically runs whenever I boot up my PC, and EGS is trying to be one with 90% less effort.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,207
Registered on Epic to get the free GTA 5. I guess the CCP owns all my personal information and browsing history now, to which I say:

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DalekFlay

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
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New Vegas
What does that even mean? Why would anyone "fear losing their Steam catalog"? They already own the games, why would they lose them?

Chances of Valve going out of business in my lifetime is insanely small, but let's not pretend you "own" anything on Steam (or Epic) and that you can't lose it. Steam can take your entire library away from you at the drop of a hat if they want to, and there are horror stories out there of people insulting the wrong tranny and losing their games. Client based DRM has downsides.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
Chances of Valve going out of business in my lifetime is insanely small, but let's not pretend you "own" anything on Steam (or Epic) and that you can't lose it.
You own what you buy, Gobbledygook about "Subscriptions" in the Terms of Service doesn't change that or the nature of the purchase of a product in exchange for money.

For more details check that long thread about a recent legal decision you were a participant in: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...le-of-digital-games-valve-will-appeal.129830/

Steam can take your entire library away from you at the drop of a hat if they want to, and there are horror stories out there of people insulting the wrong tranny and losing their games.
That's literally not a thing that Steam does. You can call whoever you want a tranny and won't lose any of your games. At most you'll get a forum ban for the specific game if a Moderator is asshurt and at worst a wider-ranging forum ban from Steam Discussions for a period. Even in cases of illegal activity like credit card fraud e.g. see her for instance they usually don't outright disable someone's account, but put it in a "restricted" Mode where no new purchases and similar can be made.

Removing thousands of games worth a lot of money over a word would be a really easy lawsuit for them to lose and set a precedent, which is why they don't really want to get there.
 

Fishy

Savant
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
398
Location
Ireland
What does that even mean? Why would anyone "fear losing their Steam catalog"? They already own the games, why would they lose them?

Chances of Valve going out of business in my lifetime is insanely small, but let's not pretend you "own" anything on Steam (or Epic) and that you can't lose it. Steam can take your entire library away from you at the drop of a hat if they want to, and there are horror stories out there of people insulting the wrong tranny and losing their games. Client based DRM has downsides.

I'll take the upsides any day personally. I've lost far more games to shitty floppies/discs having gone wrong than I lost to digital distribution failing me. Heck, GOG even provided me with legit on-demand copies of that stuff I lost to faulty physical media.

I used to care about my "collection" and being sure my stuff was mine forever. Since then, there are enough games out in the world for me to entertain myself without *needing* to replay the same thing over and over, and I got a job that allows me to afford rebuying some stuff here and there if need be. Also, I'm old enough to be fully aware that *I* won't last forever. Let's say Steam disappeared overnight, from the top of my head, I'd rebuy the Souls games wherever they'd pop up, and probably pick up SOTS: The Pit on GOG but... I think that's it. The rest I'm happy to have played through once, but don't feel any particular need to revisit immediately.

All in all, I'd probably be more upset with GOG going away as even though I have spent far less overall, I have plenty of old classics there that I revisit from time to time and I'd have to bother with abandonware sites and DOSBOX config again. Meh.

There's something to be said for game preservation, but again, digital distribution (in the form of abandonware sites and torrents) does it better than me and my physical media.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
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Messages
27,089
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
And I agree with Fronzel Neekburm on those who defend Steam vehemently because they fear losing their Steam catalog... because that made me realize that the Steam catalog is their own personal Social Credit-system: They don't dare put it at risk or they'll lose everything, so it must be defended at all costs.

What does that even mean? Why would anyone "fear losing their Steam catalog"? They already own the games, why would they lose them? What does their "Steam catalog" have to do with a "Social Credit-system"? Social Credit is used by a Totalitarian government to measure the "social reputation" of its citizens based on their level of obedience to the state. Steam is a Digital Distribution service for games. Put what at risk? Lose everything? Are you drunk?

Not this time.

My statement is based on two facts that I should have tried to cram in there somehow: As Steam is the leading digitial distributor on PCs and has put in all these community-related shared features, people are using the platform as a status symbol. Gaining those Steam levels, owning the hottest titles, showing off various achievements etc. Some people have spent years (or even decade(s)) working on their online profile on Steam, and spent (tens of) thousands of dollars on it. They have committed, they have invested and they want to protect their investment... while simultaneously stroking their e-peen.

But that's not all, the social element of Steam means that whomever you add as a Friend there can see what you own and what you're playing... and act on it. Many years ago I had the misfortune of not only being the victim of a shaming attempt, but also accused of theft by a ex- Steam (and ex-real-life) friend as well... because I had the gall to criticize a freshly-released game that the friend was praising to high heaven. The friend responsed to my criticism by checking if I owned the game on Steam, saw that I didn't and proceeded to publicly accuse me of piracy, because he (falsely) thought I was playing the game. He didn't stop to think I might be playing it on another platform, or been following the discussion closely, or possibly even watching YT-videos of the game. No, because I hadn't bought the game on Steam I was a filthy pirate and deserved to be shamed. So yeah, if a digital distribution platform can socially condition morons into trying to snitch on their fellows, it's a Social Credit-system with parallels to that used by a Totalitarian government to control its citizens.

The second fact is that I'm not just old-fashioned, I'm borderline archaic. I believe that a man should only need to own the game in his hand, and own a machine capable of running it, to be able to play it. Any extra step interfering in that process is needless IMO and should be abolished. Obviously this does not apply to online games, but the sacrifice of the extra step there is inferred. Steam goes directly against this by acting as a gatekeeper, and those are not infallible. Not even something "as big as Steam". IIRC Steam has still not explained what it will do for its customers if it somehow ends up dead and permanently offline, so I'll remain both pessimistic and sceptical of it.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
That Steam problem sounds rather specific though. Also there is a private mode. I think new accounts starts in private mode now and you have to make an effort to show off your games.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
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Messages
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That's literally not a thing that Steam does. You can call whoever you want a tranny and won't lose any of your games. At most you'll get a forum ban for the specific game if a Moderator is asshurt and at worst a wider-ranging forum ban from Steam Discussions for a period. Even in cases of illegal activity like credit card fraud e.g. see her for instance they usually don't outright disable someone's account, but put it in a "restricted" Mode where no new purchases and similar can be made.

Removing thousands of games worth a lot of money over a word would be a really easy lawsuit for them to lose and set a precedent, which is why they don't really want to get there.

People say they've done it. Wouldn't surprise me if they were being over-dramatic, but Steam and the rest have the power to do it, which is the point. I'm fine with saying "there will likely be no negative repercussions of giving them this power," but to act like you own things on there and it isn't a concern at all is putting on horse blinders. You're giving Valve a lot of power over you and your money, you just presumably trust them with it.

I'll take the upsides any day personally. I've lost far more games to shitty floppies/discs having gone wrong than I lost to digital distribution failing me. Heck, GOG even provided me with legit on-demand copies of that stuff I lost to faulty physical media.

Physical media sucks, I'll take the upsides of digital any day. Digital doesn't require DRM though, as seen on GOG.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
I'm fine with saying "there will likely be no negative repercussions of giving them this power," but to act like you own things on there and it isn't a concern at all is putting on horse blinders. You're giving Valve a lot of power over you and your money, you just presumably trust them with it.
I'm not fine with saying that at all. What I'm saying is that when I'm entering a purchase agreement and buy a product it's mine by law. It doesn't really matter what Steam pretends happened by ticking a small box, they can't contravene applicable law handling commerce, similar to how they had to offer a way for people to refund or they would've been in legal trouble too. This is even more clear for people going to a store around the corner and paying $30 to buy The Orange Box, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Kingdom Come: Deliverance or whatever or ordering it from Amazon (entering a purchase agreement in exchange for a working product) and then using the key on Steam. No matter how you twist and turn it, that's not "buying a Subscription" by any normal law regulating commerce. I'm not saying they don't have the power or ability to do it, I'm saying that it would be illegal if they did and they would regret it very quickly. Again, we've been over this before: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-valve-will-appeal.129830/page-7#post-6318777
 
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DalekFlay

Arcane
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New Vegas
I'm not fine with saying that at all. What I'm saying is that when I'm entering a purchase agreement and buy a product it's mine by law. It doesn't really matter what Steam pretends happened by ticking a small cross, they can't contravene applicable law handling commerce, similar to how they had to offer a way for people to refund or they would've been in legal trouble too. This is even more clear for people going to the store and paying $60 to buy The Orange Box or Kingdom Come: Deliverance or whatever or ordering it from Amazon (entering a purchase agreement in exchange for a working product) and then using the key on Steam. I'm not saying they don't have the power or ability to do it, I'm saying that it would be illegal if they did and they would regret it very quickly. Again, we've been over this before: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-valve-will-appeal.129830/page-7#post-6318777

I think this really depends on the situation. If they actually took your games away for petty reasons, and you had the money to sue them, they would likely see a significant challenge (especially in Europe). However if they close down? Sell to another company? Or if you move regions to where certain games are not offered for legal reasons? I don't think it's anywhere near as simple in those cases. I know when Direct2Drive closed down and changed hands a lot of people lost their games, and this has happened on other less popular sites too. If you change regions most movie services will restrict your library to the new region.

Now... do I think Steam is closing down in my lifetime? Will Gaben retire and sell to Microsoft? Damn near certainly no, but the threat is there, which is all I am asking you to acknowledge. I hesitate to say "I own this no matter what" when there's so many variables at play.
 

ultimanecat

Arcane
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
575
I’d say the bigger threat is Steam undergoing some massive change that fucks over your library in some way. GabeN has come down against his staff at least once and is responsible for Steam’s current policy of mostly letting people release whatever games they want. I know some people who identify closer to the developer side of things (i.e. bloggers, journalists, indie wannabes) are screaming for curation for a number of reasons both financial and political, but as a player and consumer I appreciate the variety and knowledge that nobody at Valve is forcing devs to make concessions on ideological grounds. But that can’t last forever, and I’m pretty sure once Gabe is out Steam will probably get lamer in any number of ways, and some of it will probably affect the games I already have.
 

Razzoriel

Genos Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 3, 2016
Messages
104
Gabe is the last person alive stopping a flood of censorship in the industry. When he's gone, Steam will become Epic Games 2.0.
 

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