Age of Decadence Reviews

[SausageInYourFace]

Another phenomenon I noticed is some players (about half I'd say) giving a negative review and then keep playing for hours:

Well known phenomenon, actually.

Codexers play Skyrim for literally hundreds of hours and allegedly hate every single second of it. People on Steam play games for literally 1337 hours and then write a bad review.

Maybe those guys playing AoD just take their duty seriously to only judge a game after having played through it at least seven times.

Maybe user reviews were a mistake.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You should think about recruiting those exact people for beta testing. It may not change their previous reviews, but it will turn some of them into supporters for CSG, because they will feel that now they share responsibility. Even if they refuse to participate, a lot of them are going to appreciate the gesture.

At least, that's how some real-life bosses act, from what I have noticed.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ...

 

[MegaRhettButler]

I finally got around to playing this for a bit tonight. It's been in my Steam library for ages. I got stuck almost immediately and rage quit for the night. I'll go back to it I just.. can't right now. The combat tutorial was easy, no problems there. The tutorial messages told me to focus on combat as a new player and not try to split myself between combat and dialogue. So I did. I went with the mercenary class and basically just stuck with what the game suggested I use: axe and block. Stuck with the suggested stats because I'm a noob, except took 1 less point of INT to buff STR to 9. Gear is heavy armor, round shield, 1h axe.

Decided not to fight the assassin. Looted the body of the dude I was guarding, half expecting to be blamed for the murder for doing that. I wasn't. Agree to sell the shit to the thieves guild. On the way back fight the thugs. Easy win. Hell yeah. Go to a loremaster to check out the map. Pay him 50 gold, fine. He want another 100 for a magic item and I think he's scamming me so I say I don't have it. He wants me to hit a dude for 50 gold instead. Too shady for me, I take the dude to the noble guy instead. Guards won't let me in unless I do a quest for them. No CHA so no choice. 2 options: Take the mine or rescue the noble from the bandits.

Try taking the mine first. Ask where they get their supplies. First merchant I meet tells me (I think I bribed them). Find the guy. He won't agree to poison the wine for me so I kill him and try to do it myself. No CHA so they see through my disguise right away. Run like a bitch. Save, put my armor back on and try to fight them. Not a chance of that working, didn't really think there was. Go back to town to see if I can recruit some followers or something. Kill a gang of thugs easily. Get cocky, decide to try the bandits.

Go talk to them. They want 1000g. Tell the noble's guard. No way, fail persuasion and he wants me to kill them. Go back and attack them because I literally can't sneak or convince anyone to cut me a fucking break with anything so what other option is there? Get owned. A few times. Quit for the night and bitch on the Codex.

What should I do? Do I need to just restart and make a more balanced character after all? I mean the game told me that as a noob I should just put everything into combat, but that actually seems to be a pretty terrible idea. I mean all of the fights I've encountered so far have been optional, but they have not all been winnable so now I have no idea how to progress. It actually seems like a more balanced dude would be more playable, in spite of these instructions, because the winnable fights seem pretty easy so far and a character half as strong as mine could probably take them, but I don't think I could beat the unwinnable ones with a dude twice as strong. Are the tutorial messages trolling?

 

[Vault Dweller]

So kill 'em all (attacking the raiders is easier than attacking the mine). What seems to be the problem?

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Codexers play Skyrim for literally hundreds of hours and allegedly hate every single second of it. People on Steam play games for literally 1337 hours and then write a bad review.

Or maybe they liked it and feel ashamed to admit it in their circle, so they use the negative review as an excuse for having bought an expensive popamole game on release.

Maybe those guys playing AoD just take their duty seriously to only judge a game after having played through it at least seven times.

Or maybe some guys enjoyed the game but believe is their duty to criticize a game that doesn't pander to the player's ego.

Maybe user reviews were a mistake.

Maybe you should stop being naive and taking people's rationalizations at face value.

 

[MegaRhettButler]

So kill 'em all (attacking the raiders is easier than attacking the mine). What seems to be the problem?

So the raiders fight is winnable to a low level character? I guess I just suck at the combat still then. I've tried it a few times and got close to taking down one of the archers each time before dying. I can block most of their attacks with my shield, but there are six of them. Can't figure out how to get around that. I might try using the nets or something, or try to buy items that will help.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So kill 'em all (attacking the raiders is easier than attacking the mine). What seems to be the problem?

So the raiders fight is winnable to a low level character? I guess I just suck at the combat still then. I've tried it a few times and got close to taking down one of the archers each time before dying. I can block most of their attacks with my shield, but there are six of them. Can't figure out how to get around that. I might try using the nets or something, or try to buy items that will help.

All fights are winnable but your stats and skills play a big role, of course. So far everything you mentioned - high STR, axe and shield, heavy armor, focus on combat, etc sounds pretty good to me. What are your axe and block skills? DEX and PER?

 

[Darth Canoli]

A good strategy is Act I, just avoid fighting as much as possible.
Act II and onward : Kill them all.

 

[jackofshadows]

A good strategy is Act I, just avoid fighting as much as possible.

Why? I'd say start killing them right off the bat.

 

[Desiderius]

Another phenomenon I noticed is some players (about half I'd say) giving a negative review and then keep playing for hours:

You should think about recruiting those exact people for beta testing. It may not change their previous reviews, but it will turn some of them into supporters for CSG, because they will feel that now they share responsibility. Even if they refuse to participate, a lot of them are going to appreciate the gesture.

At least, that's how some real-life bosses act, from what I have noticed.

That’s the heart of effective teaching/classroom management/authorship of the New Testament/etc...

 

[MegaRhettButler]

All fights are winnable but your stats and skills play a big role, of course. So far everything you mentioned - high STR, axe and shield, heavy armor, focus on combat, etc sounds pretty good to me. What are your axe and block skills? DEX and PER?

STR: 9
DEX: 8
CON: 8
PER: 6
INT: 5
CHA: 4 (Not really sure what that 4 is doing for me as I fail all checks. I'm sure it helps with merchant prices or some shit, but that doesn't matter much in most RPGs because loot is usually plentiful enough. It may be worth dropping it to 1 for more PER if I reroll)

AXE: Level 6 Rating 63
Dagger: Level 2 Rating 24 (Planning to put more points into this as I it only costs 2 ap to attack and I often have 2 AP left over)
Block: Level 4 rating 58
Crit: Level 2 Rating 30

I mostly just use quick attacks, except against heavily armored dudes, because I can get in 2 hits with usually 70ish % to hit and then burn my remaining 2 points trying to hit with a dagger (I almost always miss with that, but that's expected until I train it more). Do leftover action points do anything btw? Like boost my AC or something? Or should I always try to use all of them each round?

Gear:
Auxiliary Helmet (bronze)
Lorica Segmentata (bronze)
Cavalry shield
Skeggox (bronze)
Sefet (Iron) - on belt

Also how do you flee combat when you know you are going to die? I tried running from the soldiers at the mine but I reached the edge of the map and there was no transition to the worldmap like there would be in say, Fallout. I just got surrounded there and died, stuck against the edge of the map. I didn't try to fast travel while still in combat but I'm gonna go ahead and guess you can't do that. Apologies if that was covered in the tutorial.

As an aside, I'd like to offer a belated congratulations on releasing the game. I wasn't around here when it came out, but I followed it's development for several years before drifting away. I couldn't fucking believe it when I saw it on Steam. It made me genuinely happy for you and everyone here that supported Iron Tower to see it get a release, because I didn't think it ever would. It must be great to have that monkey off your back.

 

[Vault Dweller]

All fights are winnable but your stats and skills play a big role, of course. So far everything you mentioned - high STR, axe and shield, heavy armor, focus on combat, etc sounds pretty good to me. What are your axe and block skills? DEX and PER?

STR: 9
DEX: 8
CON: 8
PER: 6
INT: 5
CHA: 4 (Not really sure what that 4 is doing for me as I fail all checks. I'm sure it helps with merchant prices or some shit, but that doesn't matter much in most RPGs because loot is usually plentiful enough. It may be worth dropping it to 1 for more PER if I reroll)

4 is the min value. If you have less than 4, you're too weak, too dumb, too ugly to go adventuring. The stats aren't bad but your PER is avg which affects your THC. Not a reason to restart though.

AXE: Level 6 Rating 63
Dagger: Level 2 Rating 24 (Planning to put more points into this as I it only costs 2 ap to attack and I often have 2 AP left over)
Block: Level 4 rating 58
Crit: Level 2 Rating 30

Axe 6 is good, block 4 is a bit weak (you can start the game with 3-4 points in block), I wouldn't recommend fighting the raiders or attacking the mine until you have block 5. Still not impossible. Dagger you don't need, plus attack speed isn't everything as your fast attacks won't go through armor (dagger is best used for aimed attacks and finesse).

Did you join a faction? Explored the town a bit? I'd suggest to join the Guards, do the first quest, take your time exploring to gain xp and loot (mainly iron to make better weapons with crafting), kill the raiders, see if you can wipe out the mine, then do the second and third IG quests.

I mostly just use quick attacks, except against heavily armored dudes, because I can get in 2 hits with usually 70ish % to hit and then burn my remaining 2 points trying to hit with a dagger (I almost always miss with that, but that's expected until I train it more). Do leftover action points do anything btw? Like boost my AC or something? Or should I always try to use all of them each round?

They don't.

Also how do you flee combat when you know you are going to die?

You don't.

As an aside, I'd like to offer a belated congratulations on releasing the game. I wasn't around here when it came out, but I followed it's development for several years before drifting away. I couldn't fucking believe it when I saw it on Steam. It made me genuinely happy for you and everyone here that supported Iron Tower to see it get a release, because I didn't think it ever would. It must be great to have that monkey off your back.

Thanks!

 

[Goromorg]

I have found that the mining outpost fight is easier than the raider camp if MC has enough alchemy skill to poison the wine.

 

[Butter]

A good strategy is Act I, just avoid fighting as much as possible.
Act II and onward : Kill them all.

Mining camp and raiders are two of the most fun fights in the game. Shouldn't be skipping those.

 

[Trash Player]

All fights are winnable but your stats and skills play a big role, of course. So far everything you mentioned - high STR, axe and shield, heavy armor, focus on combat, etc sounds pretty good to me. What are your axe and block skills? DEX and PER?

STR: 9
DEX: 8
CON: 8
PER: 6
INT: 5
CHA: 4 (Not really sure what that 4 is doing for me as I fail all checks. I'm sure it helps with merchant prices or some shit, but that doesn't matter much in most RPGs because loot is usually plentiful enough. It may be worth dropping it to 1 for more PER if I reroll)

AXE: Level 6 Rating 63
Dagger: Level 2 Rating 24 (Planning to put more points into this as I it only costs 2 ap to attack and I often have 2 AP left over)
Block: Level 4 rating 58
Crit: Level 2 Rating 30

I mostly just use quick attacks, except against heavily armored dudes, because I can get in 2 hits with usually 70ish % to hit and then burn my remaining 2 points trying to hit with a dagger (I almost always miss with that, but that's expected until I train it more). Do leftover action points do anything btw? Like boost my AC or something? Or should I always try to use all of them each round?

Gear:
Auxiliary Helmet (bronze)
Lorica Segmentata (bronze)
Cavalry shield
Skeggox (bronze)
Sefet (Iron) - on belt

Also how do you flee combat when you know you are going to die? I tried running from the soldiers at the mine but I reached the edge of the map and there was no transition to the worldmap like there would be in say, Fallout. I just got surrounded there and died, stuck against the edge of the map. I didn't try to fast travel while still in combat but I'm gonna go ahead and guess you can't do that. Apologies if that was covered in the tutorial.

As an aside, I'd like to offer a belated congratulations on releasing the game. I wasn't around here when it came out, but I followed it's development for several years before drifting away. I couldn't fucking believe it when I saw it on Steam. It made me genuinely happy for you and everyone here that supported Iron Tower to see it get a release, because I didn't think it ever would. It must be great to have that monkey off your back.

1. Stat array is fine. You are pushed into restarting a few times for the right questing sequence however.
2. There are more easy fights than meet the eyes. Look in the seedy part of the town and watch for dubious offers.
3. You are not wrong about having non-combat skills make it easier. Making stuffs aside, 4 in both stealth and lockpicking pretty much pay for themselves and more.

 

[Horvatii]

The colony ship game has a fixed camera. Let's see if this will please the critics.

Well, I dont know about you, faggots, but I am going first person.

sneak in

steal all the passwords :h4x0r:

 

[Darth Canoli]

Mining camp and raiders are two of the most fun fights in the game. Shouldn't be skipping those.

Well, early on, you can get ambushed by 3 thieves, then, there's Miltiades fights, those were really tight, so i chose to avoid fighting 6 bandits in their camp on my own, specially since their leader is a seasoned fighter.
Also, as far as i know, you can't sneak in at night and take the sentinels down one by one.

About the mining camp, it made no sense for my character to attack it but i plan to make a 100% combat focused one next playthrough.

What i meant is there's plenty of xp to gather before jumping into the most difficult fights in Act I but if you focused on fighting skills, by the time you reach Act II, aside from the most difficult Arena fights, almost nothing can stop you.
I wanted to play a jack of all trades, even if i had read it wasn't viable but after having a hard time with early fights, i chose to focus on fighting skills because not being able to dispatch a couple of thieves in a cRPG is an alien concept to me.

 

[Fenix]

STR: 9
DEX: 8
CON: 8
PER: 6
INT: 5
CHA: 4

Dude, just do what Eyestabber did for his Ironman playthrough - PER\INT\CHA - all set on 4, and put 3 points in combat stats, you can go fine without Perception.
Two wepons is a bad idea, abandon it. Pick easier fights at first.

 

[Johannes]

The real key to success in act 1 is learning how to get skill points from the easier minor quests in Teron. When you know what you can do now, do that and get skillpoints, then you can do the next thing, and so on. The raider camp and mining outpost are a bit tougher, so you should grind what you can in town first.

I know the game is supposedly not meant to be metagamed like this, but in practice it's impossible to avoid learning these things after dying a few times. Playing a hybrid becomes a lot more viable when you have the knowledge that investing X points into thievan skills will give you X+5 skill points in return for the quests they allow you to do. And some money and nice items, too, but your character should care more about personal development than lucre.

Likewise Maadoran will be a lot harder for a virgin who got dozens of skillpoints less out of Teron than the chad veteran player who ran through every quest possible.

 

[curry]

I know the game is supposedly not meant to be metagamed like this

That's a big joke. This game absolutely requires metagaming or your playthrough 5minutes of gameplay will be very short and frustrating

 

[Black Angel]

Is it metagaming on your 2nd playthrough to visit places you've been on your 1st playthrough? And is it metagaming if you go out of your way to explore every nooks and cranny that can be explored, even if you didn't know beforehand what awaits you?

Honest question.

 

[Drowed]

Is it metagaming on your 2nd playthrough to visit places you've been on your 1st playthrough? And is it metagaming if you go out of your way to explore every nooks and cranny that can be explored, even if you didn't know beforehand what awaits you?

Honest question.

I would say the answer is 'maybe yes' to your first question and 'definitely no' to your second.

I think that metagame is any approach to a game that uses information that transcends or uses external factors to what you are experiencing at the moment for the purpose of interfering with the game results. Of course, this distinction begins to become less clear depending on the context, but I would say that the act of playing any game, by definition, mixes with the idea of a metagame to some degree. Reading a walkthrough or watching videos that show you game events will obviously give you previous information about something you haven't experienced yet - and thus allow you to prepare for something you wouldn't theoretically know. You're using an external and previous experience to influence the results of the game, so you're metagaming. I think that this example is very clear and not controversial.

But then, what about when you die at some point in the game? You will return to your previous save (or a checkpoint) with information about what comes next that, in your first experience, you did not have. Obviously, you will use this experience to get a better result this time. But would that be metagame? If not, then what if you decide to load a save from several hours ago to change many events? If not, what if you decide to start the game again, or are playing for a second time? Here it depends on your interpretation, but that's exactly why I said that playing a game mixes with metagame, because it's impossible to separate the two things. As you play you will end up accumulating experiences about the game you will use to change your approach as needed.

The point at which this interferes with game design is in the different visions of how to treat these possible scenarios. For some developers, the player should never be able to find himself in a "dead end" situation - that is, no matter what decisions he has made previously until that point, the player must always have at least one way to go through the present situation. This design approach is based on the premise that no prior knowledge is necessary to be able to overcome any punctual challenge in the game, but has the consequence that the game will never really "punish" the player for wrong decisions, because he always has a way out. This idea works very well for action games, since essentially their focus is on the player's ability, so it's important that you're able to complete any challenge, regardless of context.

But when we talk about RPGs, that approach is no longer reasonable. If you follow that same principle, then you've become Sawyer: you feel you need to create a game where all imaginable builds would be "effective" in some way... Which essentially means that the player can never fail. Different RPGs require different levels of metaknowledge. Some require you to understand the system in advance, others require you to experiment with the characters to see what works or doesn't work, but virtually every RPG leads to some level of metagame. What is debatable is what is the limit of what is acceptable for this - or in this case, how restrictive the game is in offering solutions, and how much sense these solutions make within the context of the game. Is it plausible that a assassin's quest requires you to have a certain level of lockpick skill? Probably. But is it acceptable if it forces you to have a high level of persuasion? Probably not.

So a more relevant discussion is less whether or not something is metagame, but what level of metagame it is acceptable for an RPG to require of the player at any given point in the story without the game essentially turning into a puzzle in disguise where you memorize the correct answers.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Considering AoD does not reward roleplaying but encourages metagaming, I don't even understand why anyone would think to do otherwise. If you're playing a fighter build, you have to save-scum each battle. It's the same for skill points and quests. As curry said, that's the design philosophy behind the game. It's not good or bad per se, it's just a style. It's definitely annoying if you're not used to it since you basically have to save your SP until you know the exact amount you need to spend on the next quest, and to facilitate that you need to know in which order it's most beneficial to do the quests. AoD isn't quite the most extreme in this manner since there's a little bit of leeway and there are multiple ways of solving quests but it's certainly up there.

 

[Black Angel]

If you're playing a fighter build, you have to save-scum each battle.

 

[Kalarion]

I know the game is supposedly not meant to be metagamed like this

That's a big joke. This game absolutely requires metagaming or your playthrough 5minutes of gameplay will be very short and frustrating

I get you're exaggerating for effect, but the sentiment is still out in full force so I feel like it has to be responded to seriously. It's like people never read what the game designer himself stated as his intent. The game doesn't require you to metagame, it requires you to be consistent to the character you're playing. And instead of auto-rewarding hybridization (like most games do) it auto-rewards specialization and character consistency: if you start a talker and play that way, you can finish the game. If you start as a fighter and play as a fighter you can finish the game. And so on. If you play as a talker who splashes fighting because you simply must play those arena fights, darling! you'd better have some understanding of SP distributions so you can hoover them up. You'll need them to prepare for an encounter that's out of character for you.

Considering AoD does not reward roleplaying but encourages metagaming, I don't even understand why anyone would think to do otherwise. If you're playing a fighter build, you have to save-scum each battle. It's the same for skill points and quests. As curry said, that's the design philosophy behind the game. It's not good or bad per se, it's just a style. It's definitely annoying if you're not used to it since you basically have to save your SP until you know the exact amount you need to spend on the next quest, and to facilitate that you need to know in which order it's most beneficial to do the quests. AoD isn't quite the most extreme in this manner since there's a little bit of leeway and there are multiple ways of solving quests but it's certainly up there.

Hardly. If you make an alchemist loremaster, you'll be richly rewarded in the game... for an alchemist loremaster playthrough. If you make a politicking praetor, you'll have a completely different and really cool game... as a politicking praetor. If you play as a grunt soldier, again completely different. The difference is, that's going to be your playthrough- you don't get to join all ten guilds and become the Supreme Grandmaster Archmage Assassin Knight in one playthrough. Or rather, if that's your goal then yes, you better be a tier 10 autist Codexer to make it work. People seem to have this idea that roleplaying can only mean "I get to do what I want, when I want, without having to think about the character I created". I would argue roleplaying is "I get to fully explore the character I created through consistent choices". Luckily this game allows us to do both. It's just that one is harder then the other :D.

What it all comes down to, in my mind, is a fundamental misunderstanding of Vault Dweller 's design philosophy for this game: specialization and consistency of character is the default, normal way to play his games. Excessive hybridization with lots of "out of character" splashes and game choices is the hard mode, requiring lots of metagaming to make work. I don't think he's ever said he doesn't like metagaming or hybridization (feel free to quote him if he has), but he has stated, over and over, that making a successful hybrid should be difficult along with rewarding in his game(s).