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Fallout The original Fallout is the Mortal Kombat of CRPGs

Dustin542

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
116
You know, I started writing a longer reply. It involved that Fallout 4 quest that started with a bartender cucking a guy, and jumped to you getting involved in a drug deal with the both of them for reasons that I'm sure made sense to the designers after the third joint. I was also prepared to mention Justin Bieber, and how something selling well doesn't correlate all that well with its quality. But I realised it's not worth the effort, when you aren't willing to put in some effort yourself to make your trolling halfway believable. Seriously, tone it down a bit. You'll get many more bites if the bait isn't that obvious.

It is a game, not a book. You mean to imply the original Fallout writing was better? Dude, the whole idea of Fallout is bad writting altogether, if you are willing to SPERG about it. For example, no people could survive for hundrends of years underground, they would die of vitamin D deficiency. So the whole premise is unrealistic. It is a fucking video game, not real life. You are just suppose to mess around, role play, and have fun. Not replace real life.
You do know you can get vitamin D from certain foods right? Like mushrooms.

As for making Fallout modern, Bethesda has been making the same "first person spam attack to kill things" game since 1994, just now with better graphics. Several years before Fallout was made.
 
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Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
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Messages
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Fairy land
You know, I started writing a longer reply. It involved that Fallout 4 quest that started with a bartender cucking a guy, and jumped to you getting involved in a drug deal with the both of them for reasons that I'm sure made sense to the designers after the third joint. I was also prepared to mention Justin Bieber, and how something selling well doesn't correlate all that well with its quality. But I realised it's not worth the effort, when you aren't willing to put in some effort yourself to make your trolling halfway believable. Seriously, tone it down a bit. You'll get many more bites if the bait isn't that obvious.

It is a game, not a book. You mean to imply the original Fallout writing was better? Dude, the whole idea of Fallout is bad writting altogether, if you are willing to SPERG about it. For example, no people could survive for hundrends of years underground, they would die of vitamin D deficiency. So the whole premise is unrealistic. It is a fucking video game, not real life. You are just suppose to mess around, role play, and have fun. Not replace real life.
You do know you can get vitamin D from certain foods right? Like mushrooms.
Yeah. I don't get enough Sun so my doctor gave me pills
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
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Kelethin
You would have trouble growing mushrooms underground without suitable light, and if you had a light for growing you could just sit under the light yourself for vitamin D. I think oxygen and water would be the biggest problems. The place would run out of oxygen in no time and if you couldn't just suck it in from above (due to radiation), you would need oxygen tanks or something. Same goes for water. The amount of water a person needs to survive is massive so there's no way it could be stored. Really it is better to not think about these sorts of things or 95% of games and films would seem shit.
 

Phinx

Augur
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
107
You are wrong.

I find Fallout and Fallout 2 to be, as a whole, better than vanilla New Vegas. They are much more tactical games than Fallout 4 could ever hope to be. They are much harder games than Fallout 4 could ever hope to be. They have much more choice than Fallout 4 could ever hope to be. And they are certainly far less buggy. The gameplay of Fallout 4 isn't "much more advanced". It is entirely different. That people sing more praises about its crafting and homebuilding features over its RPG features says a lot about it as a Fallout game.

Fallout is a great game. The only truth you have spoken is that it is a short game. And yet, despite it being the perfect blueprint for a bigger and better game, Bethesda had no better idea than to strip everything that made it great when making Fallout 3, and carry over their mistakes from their own Elder Scrolls franchise.

I don't have anything else to add to this.

There is nothing tactical about Fallout. You want proof? simple. Analyze a typical battle and give me the "interesting decisions" you make in Fallout. Actually, never mind, i will do it for you:

1) Preparation: Put armor and a weapon in your slots

2) Push the combat button

3) Hover your mouse to see which target has the higher chance to hit, unless someone is threatening you with nasty damage and you can take him out first

4) Shoot it or use aimed shot to target the eyes or groin, or use burst in point blank range to cheese ez killz

5) Do that until combat is over.

That's the "tactics" of Fallout. There is no cover. You can't control the NPCs. You basically can only fight with guns, melee, or grenades, so the combat is vastly inferior to something like DnD (there is no magic).

Seriously, where are the "tactics"? There is nothing tactical about Fallout, you just play the combat turned based like a retard instead of real time in Fallout 4. That's about it.

About Half a decade ago I booted up Fallout 3 for the first time. To this day I still vividly remember my first experience out in the wastelands. With my trusty wooden stick, I marched forwards towards a foe in the not too distant fields. To my dismay, it was a super mutant. It's game over I thought to myself, no way I can win this battle. But it was too late to run.

He ushered a mighty roar, in turn I re-actively sat upright, hunched ever so slightly forward with laser like focus. My first move entailed punching both the W & D keys simultaneously whilst maintaining the mouse cursor over the mutant at all times. From that moment on it became clear that the opponent was no doubt befuddled by my actions. I proceeded to frantically mash the left mouse button to unload blunt force trauma in the form of a tornado twister. The mutant was no match, before long he was nothing more than a crumpled heap swimming in a pool of red.

The tornado twister is Fallout 4 in a nutshell. You hold the WASD throughout the game, and mash left button during conversations because the NPC's have nothing worth reading. You also mash the button when leveling up because the perks and stats don't make a huge difference, and lastly you mash it during combat.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
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You do know you can get vitamin D from certain foods right? Like mushrooms.

As for making Fallout modern, Bethesda has been making the same "first person spam attack to kill things" game since 1994, just now with better graphics. Several years before Fallout was made.

1) Mushrooms give you D2, not D3, and it is of much lesser value to a human. You need to be eating several kilograms of mushrooms daily in order to get enough D3... Assuming that they used some kind of chemical process to just isolate the D2 from mushrooms and create supplements from it, they would need vast underground areas per vault for mushroom cultivation, and obviously tons of water and energy....

2) Bethesda did not improve just the graphics. Go ahead, replace Daggerfall's or Morrowind's graphics with modern ones, they are still going to be shitty games by modern standards. Hell, do the same with Oblivion, replace textures and shaders with modern ones... It is still going to be shitty. No, Bethesda improved much more.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
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Messages
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Cradle of Western Civilization
Yeah. I don't get enough Sun so my doctor gave me pills

Do you know how those pills are made? Most D3 pills come from sheep skin. Literally sheep skin. They just let the sheep in the sun to create D3 and then once they get their hair they isolate the D3 from them. Try finding sheep in the sun during a nuclear apocalypse while living underground in a vault...
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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The tornado twister is Fallout 4 in a nutshell. You hold the WASD throughout the game, and mash left button during conversations because the NPC's have nothing worth reading. You also mash the button when leveling up because the perks and stats don't make a huge difference, and lastly you mash it during combat.
Don't forget about VATS. Press V, target head, press E, next please.
 

Mud'

Scholar
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
225
The original Fallout is the Mortal Kombat of CRPGs
I agree: most of their sequels are a disgrace to the series and should have never been made.


Have you played the OG Mortal Kombat recently? I played it on the arcades like 5 months ago and it was pretty darn bad.

Leaving that aside, i kinda do agree that Fallout 1 and 2 are pretty damn straight forward, tag Small Guns, Speech and other skill, up AG/LK/INT, dump CH and you are pretty much good to go, my small brother beat FO1/FO2 when FO3 came out and he was craving more Fallout, so i put him the originals, told him that CH is useless unless he wanted companions and he finished both games on normal, if a kid can do it, anyone can finish FO.

My main problem with FO comes from the combat, like OP said, its kinda easy and simple to use (and i love it) but i feel there is no tactic to it. I played a TON of FOnline and most of the combat encounters, PVE or PVP wise, were out in the open taking turns shooting each other until one of the two died or used a stimpack.

Thing changed in real time combat because the game became a a game of cat & mouse where you would run around the map waiting for your AP to recharge while taking pot shots at the guy chasing you while he took pot shots at you.

In FO1/2, most random encounters were in the plain open desert where some raiders would melt your ass with a 10mm submachine gun because there was no where to go but to the exit grid, that was the combat in random encounters.

In towns the only tactic would be to go inside a building and close the door and just camp the door, the enemy had to waste AP to open the door, take a pot shot at you and then you get to take 2 shots at him since you are not moving. That was the majority of Fallout, tanking bullets and sometimes trying to lose line of sight with the enemies.

I mean i love FO1/FO2 but man i wished that it had better combat.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
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Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Leaving that aside, i kinda do agree that Fallout 1 and 2 are pretty damn straight forward, tag Small Guns, Speech and other skill, up AG/LK/INT, dump CH and you are pretty much good to go,
Yes, because Fallouts are the only games that have OP build figured out for them. God forbid you want to try something different.
In towns the only tactic would be to go inside a building and close the door and just camp the door
Only if you completely suck at building your char and combat, and have to cheese out every fight.
 

Mud'

Scholar
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
225
Yes, because Fallouts are the only games that have OP build figured out for them. God forbid you want to try something different.

Only if you completely suck at building your char and combat, and have to cheese out every fight.

The only other builds i have tried were the Jinxed ones for fun and the Energy/Heavy/Melee (change up ST) weapons ones apart from the obvious low INT character that focus 100% on combat, but like i said its pretty straight forward where the only choice you take is the Tag you want to take.

Having low AG is just a no-no unless you want a pure diplomatic character that is going to be melted in random encounters since your companions are brain-dead when you are in the open.

As for the cheese, at the end of the post i said that almost all combat encounters end up taking place out in the open tanking bullets, enemies do not run to cover, actually they bumrush you to shot you at point blank with a pistol most of the time.

That is why i said that the only tactic is hiding in a building, because other than that, you will never face a enemy that takes cover, so might as well abuse that the enemy will rush you by hiding and killing them one by one or you can just tank the bullets of +3 guys shooting you at the same time, its your choice.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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The only other builds i have tried were the Jinxed ones for fun and the
The only stat that is absolutely necessary is AG. Rest could be set as one wishes. For example: gifted, dump CHA, low PE, max AG and STR, rest divide between END, INT and LUCK. Tag melee, unarmed and one at your choosing. Don't touch guns at all. Let them run up to you. They will regret it.
Or stealthy sniper: gifted, dump CHA and LUCK, max out INT and AG, high PER, rest divide between STR and END. Tag small guns, energy guns and sneak. Bastards won't even know what hit them.
One more: one armed and fast shot, max AG and LUCK, higher END and PE, rest as you wish. Tag small guns, energy and whatever else. SMG bursts to melt faces, lots of crits later. With bonus rate of fire, more criticals and Gauss pistol you can shoot a lot per one turn.

This are the most effective ones. Some metagamey builds are even more fun. How about Energy only build in F2? Or dump AG to replace it with jet?
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,491
Bethesda Fallouts brought these elements to our age, by using a modern engine with more freedom involved. Fallout 4 is a much better game than the original Fallouts.
Nice troll thread, dude, well fucking done. The only things in common F1/2 have with F4 are the title and some bits of lore. Comparing them is utterly pointless, basically it's a matter of a preference.
This are the most effective ones. Some metagamey builds are even more fun. How about Energy only build in F2? Or dump AG to replace it with jet?
Don't forget about full-fledged sniper perk based heavy weapon build (ag/lk max) when you could consistently obliterate Horrigan by 1-2 turns not to mention easily taking out the whole oil rig base.
 

razvedchiki

Erudite
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
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on the back of a T34.
NRGtxyD.jpg
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
fallout 1 and 2 have both aged well because of their character design, unique setting, artistic design, atmospheric presentation, and the breadth of the choice and consequence in them.

There's not a whole lot of C&C in Fallout. Some multiple ways of solving quests, but the outcomes of most quests are the same. You don't even have the option to side with the vault dwellers who want to leave - you either tell them to stay, or ignore it (with no consequences either way). There are a quests where they give you a simplistic good/bad choice, but they have almost no impact later in the game. And no matter what, the endgame is the same for all characters (even if you side with the master, it's just a truncated version of the same endgame).

Compare it to a game like Geneforge, and the difference is night and day. Your actions and beliefs can lock you out of options much further down the line, the choices you make are much more complex than cartoonish good vs. cartoonish evil, the endgame quests are vastly different depending on choices you make, and the range of mainquest endings is much more varied and interesting.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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Don't forget about full-fledged sniper perk based heavy weapon build (ag/lk max) when you could consistently obliterate Horrigan by 1-2 turns not to mention easily taking out the whole oil rig base.
Yes, but it's variation of already mentioned one-armed build, only heavier. High AG and LUCK, PE no less than 8, better STR to meet weapon requirements, average INT and END, dump CHA. Fast shot and finesse traits, tag Heavy and Light weapons (lights are the requisite for sniper perk). Go for better criticals, bonus rate of fire and sniper perks. By the time you have sniper perk you would be able to make several bursts per turn of which most will be criticals.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,491
Yes, but it's variation of already mentioned one-armed build, only heavier. High AG and LUCK, PE no less than 8, better STR to meet weapon requirements, average INT and END, dump CHA. Fast shot and finesse traits, tag Heavy and Light weapons (lights are the requisite for sniper perk). Go for better criticals, bonus rate of fire and sniper perks. By the time you have sniper perk you would be able to make several bursts per turn of which most will be criticals.
You haven't mentioned sniper perk at all which is crucial for this build, obviously. I'd say finesse is a bad choice because -30% dmg w/o consistent crits is a hell of a downside. Tag light weapons is also unnecessary because 80% requirement is easy to reach via books. Also double bonus ranged damage is a very nice addition to this.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
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You haven't mentioned sniper perk at all which is crucial for this build, obviously. I'd say finesse is a bad choice because -30% dmg w/o consistent crits is a hell of a downside. Tag light weapons is also unnecessary because 80% requirement is easy to reach via books. Also double bonus ranged damage is a very nice addition to this.
Well, any ranged character should pick up Sniper perk. There's not too much choice: Slayer for melee and Sniper for ranged.
Finesse is a matter of preference. Some folks prefer stable damage output, some like to gamble for crits. I would say that Sniper comes only at level 24 and you got to kill people before it comes - and some nasty dudes could have DR higher than your damage output.
Light weapons here are still useful because you got to use something early on and maybe you would like to conserve ammo on lesser foes if you use something like Vindicator later.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
This Summer!

The Codex's favourite Greekoid is back with a vengeance!

And he intends to crash this server... WITH NO SURVIVORS!!!

Templar's Crusade 2: Wild Hunt

Coming to a soon to be Retardoed thread near you.

Rated R for Retarded.
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
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Small but great planet of Potatohole
The OP has some valid points. Fallouts, especially the first one, is badly overrated on the Codex. Not nearly as much as for example P:T but it still is. But despite some significant flaws Fallout 1 is a good CRPG. Just not the greatest achievement of the genre or some such nonsense. The OP names some of its problems like lack of tactical combat, some skills or stats being useless... The problem is that he mixes some good criticism with tons and tons of retardation.
Which is the mark of a good troll. Saying only retarded things doesn't guarantee a reaction. Mixing them with a little bit of truth does. It's like a good lie: always mix in a bit of truth as the saying goes. I think that our Greek friend has grown up. He used to say moronic things and was butthurt when no one took him seriously. Now he still says mostly moronic things but instead of being butthurt, he seem to enjoy all the attention he gets. This means the ability to learn, which means some kind of intelligence. Which means, there is, surprisingly, hope for the most infamous Greek on the Codex.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,164
The OP names some of its problems like lack of tactical combat, some skills or stats being useless...
Such as?

Recall that Fallout was originally GURPS; it supported GURPS characters. Fallout (as shipped) was essentially the same game, but with a quick (two week) overhaul to distance it from the GURPS license. The game allows the player to design their character to suit—to even specialize in the (oft maligned) Traps skill if they so choose. Traps are rare in the games, but when encountered your PC can be an expert where others are not. *It would have been nice to have the skill work both ways, and allow for recovering, and re-setting of traps.

Also, (serious question) why is the combat perceived as non-tactical?
 
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