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Poll: The Outer Worlds and Fallout: New Vegas

Which one of these describes your opinion most closely?


  • Total voters
    233

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
^ this guy also hates Fallout 1-2 because of a brown palette and because combat is worse than in underrail.
Those are big reasons but that's not the only thing. The game just fails to draw you in. In Underrail, you immediately develop an attachment to your station, as almost everyone in there has something relatively interesting to say and you're intrigued by the dangerous world outside of your station, which gives you a sense of belonging. It also develops a great sense of curiosity with the player once you hear about other stations, because so many different questions pop up. Of course, the game is also gorgeous, so you feel compelled to explore just so you can see more of its beautiful art.

In Fallout one, you literally have no connection to your vault as you're immediately shunted out of it and told to go find the water chip. Gee, thanks, I'm supposed to risk my life and save all these people in a vault I've never actually met because? In Fallout two, the entire village looks like shit and because of how poorly the opening temple is done, the game doesn't do a great job of making you care either. And what's the point of traveling around to see stuff when everything is brown and most of the buildings are literally just rectangles lmao.

Also, the writing was completely mediocre. The way you get companions in general throughout the game is really shitty, and amounts to buying them or just having them join you for no reason (fucking Ian). There were a few good instances of C&C and well written characters, but too little too late. It's definitely not in the same league as most well written RPGs.
 

AW8

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
The game just fails to draw you in. In Underrail, you immediately develop an attachment to your station, as almost everyone in there has something relatively interesting to say and you're intrigued by the dangerous world outside of your station, which gives you a sense of belonging.
[...]
In Fallout one, you literally have no connection to your vault as you're immediately shunted out of it and told to go find the water chip. Gee, thanks, I'm supposed to risk my life and save all these people in a vault I've never actually met because?
This is true. Underrail is pretty much an improved Fallout, with SGS being Vault 13 except it feels like your home and is full of quests, the rathounds at the outposts being the giant rats of the Fallout intro except these are actually capable of hurting you etc.

I think Fallout could have benefitted from having the player start at the Overseer, and have the player pass NPC's on the way out that makes the Vault feel more like your home: The quartermaster where the player can choose between weaponry, the doctor that tells the player to come back if they're hurt, an argument between people where the player can investigate to start the water thief quest etc.

Even better, have people standing on the sides cheering you on as you're leaving, for maximal comical contrast to when you exit the Vault and find the last guy they sent dead right outside the door!
...Which highlights the fact that you're just a deadbeat they're throwing to the wolves, and that caring for Vault 13 is impossible and my earlier suggestions are paradoxical. Man, the fall of Vault 13 causing the game to end makes no sense at all.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In the past, I've been edgy and made statements calling out Fallout 1 & 2 for being trash, and obviously that's not true. What is true is that the two games are massively overrated, and Fallout grognards shill harder for the two games then half the posters on NMA. Fallout 1 & 2 have several flaws, and purely from a combatfag standpoint, it's obvious why someone would not enjoy the two games.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
In the past, I've been edgy and made statements calling out Fallout 1 & 2 for being trash, and obviously that's not true. What is true is that the two games are massively overrated, and Fallout grognards shill harder for the two games then half the posters on NMA. Fallout 1 & 2 have several flaws, and purely from a combatfag standpoint, it's obvious why someone would not enjoy the two games.
I was critical of the combat in Fallout, and I still stand by it. But even with a mediocre combat, the roleplaying, the atmosphere, the characterbuilding and writing is so good, than one can (and should) look over the problems of the combat system.
 

Daedalos

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^ this guy also hates Fallout 1-2 because of a brown palette and because combat is worse than in underrail.
Those are big reasons but that's not the only thing. The game just fails to draw you in. In Underrail, you immediately develop an attachment to your station, as almost everyone in there has something relatively interesting to say and you're intrigued by the dangerous world outside of your station, which gives you a sense of belonging. It also develops a great sense of curiosity with the player once you hear about other stations, because so many different questions pop up. Of course, the game is also gorgeous, so you feel compelled to explore just so you can see more of its beautiful art.

In Fallout one, you literally have no connection to your vault as you're immediately shunted out of it and told to go find the water chip. Gee, thanks, I'm supposed to risk my life and save all these people in a vault I've never actually met because? In Fallout two, the entire village looks like shit and because of how poorly the opening temple is done, the game doesn't do a great job of making you care either. And what's the point of traveling around to see stuff when everything is brown and most of the buildings are literally just rectangles lmao.

Also, the writing was completely mediocre. The way you get companions in general throughout the game is really shitty, and amounts to buying them or just having them join you for no reason (fucking Ian). There were a few good instances of C&C and well written characters, but too little too late. It's definitely not in the same league as most well written RPGs.

The premise of fallout 1 and 2 compared to underrail is also entirely different.

In underrail you start out in a fully operational bunker, a big HUB area run by your own corp, and you have to do their missions and shit. No rush, you're just basically a newfag drone.

In fallout, you basically just drift along alone like a wanderer in a nuclear wasteland, or did that setting elude you? You are immediately put in a dangerous situation, because the situation warrants it and you cannot stay in the vault. Could fallout 1 have benefitted from starting you out in Vault 13, and letting you walk around and having quests and shit? Maybe? But probably not. Fallout 1 as I said has an entirely different narrative structure and progression than underrail and others.

Fallout and Underrail are both about exploration, but go at it in very different ways. And how the fuck can you think the STORY of underrail is better than fallout? Let alone the writing? that kind of boggles my mind.

I mean the writing in underrail wasn't BAD per se, but it wasn't fucking winning any literary prizes either. And the story is so-so. You're average faction-war and a big bad monster, I guess similar to fallout, but alot worse, and alot less engaging as a concept.

Lastly, from a mechanical standpoint, fallout 1 and 2 combat was p. lackluster and boring, but since it was turn-based, relatively quick animations and combat slider AND it had satisfying death animations and impactful sound design, the combat suddenly became much more tolerable.

Underrail combat is far more complex and well, better, than fallouts, but in terms of visual style, feel and that stuff, fallout kind of still wins out.
 
Last edited:

Ontopoly

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I'm glad to be in the winner's camp. As expected, TOW turned out to be total shit.
TOW is way better than F:NV in pretty much every way, only Bethesda fanbois says otherwise tbh.

1. The combat was improved, feels way better and more like a real shooter. This is what you do most of the game so it's incredibly important to the overall experience.

2. Looks way less ugly, New Vegas looked terrible. TOW is kinda pretty.

3. Choices matter more, in New Vegas you got choices every now and then but they were mostly superficial and didn't change the story. In TOW things you do matter.

4. Waaaay better written companions, who were shallow as f*ck in New Vegas.

5. Less empty spaces and waste of time, New Vegas was a big game but there really wasn't much more in it than was in TOW. 95% of the time was spent just walking or looting containers.

That's my top five reasons TOW kicks ass!
Both were shit. And whoevers alt this is needs to try harder.
Duh, if you didn't like New Vegas then OBVIOUSLY you won't like improved New Vegas 2.0.
Both were shit
Fuck off nigger. New Vegas was pretty great.
There was nothing wrong with the basic structure of the game, shoot, loot, talk, go on quests and all that jazz. It's just that NV was VERY rough around the edges, some areas and content barely finished and there was a lot of empty space, dungeons and places where you bascially only had to shoot people and everything was detatched like in Fallout 3. There were some improvements over the Bethesda entry, like the legion or NCR sending assassins and stuff if you messed with them too much, but even so it was all too compartmentalized.

This is why TOW is so great, everything fits together much better and is tighter. The characters, story and areas are all soo much better integrated with one another and it's more cohesive. You pretty much never just go around in an empty wasteland with zero content besides a couple of critters, pick up some junk loot and get bored out of your skull. In TOW you're on a quest, there's story, your companions have proper connections to things and interject during conversations... It's just better dude.

Look at it objectively, TOW is the logical upgrade of NV and if you just take off your nostalgia goggles you'd see that.
 

Quillon

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Messages
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And what's the point of traveling around to see stuff when everything is brown and most of the buildings are literally just rectangles lmao.

because underrail is so colorful and

34b9bfefe3ff7247a831523fc0c74c24c28fc249.png
 
Unwanted

Sweeper

Unwanted
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But even with a mediocre combat
That's one way of putting it I guess.
It was shit.
Fallout is great and all, but from a combatfag perspective, it's meh to alright.

I mean the writing in underrail wasn't BAD per se, but it wasn't fucking winning any literary prizes either. And the story is so-so. You're average faction-war and a big bad monster, I guess similar to fallout, but alot worse, and alot less engaging as a concept.

Firstly, stop being a storyfag bro. Secondly I've yet to dive into Expedition fully, but the quest with Dude is, and I mean this unironically, one of the greatest quests I've experienced in an RPG.It's got decent writing both in terms of descriptions and dialogue, the character of The Dude is pretty cool, there's a lot of humor and thankfully it's not r*ddit tier. Most importantly the culmination of the quest on Dominating can outright end playthroughs with bad builds or underleveled characters.
Unfortunately Styg decided to be gay and include a hard autosave so people wouldn't rage about it.

Most other RPG quests are either fetch quests, or story/character driven. Dude's quest felt like an actual adventure you randomly find in the middle of nowhere. Driven both by the Dude, but also a quest for the sake of questing.
Maybe I'm sucking this game's dick too hard, cause for the majority of the game the writing, characters and quests are pretty bland and forgetable, but Dude's quest is anything but.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was critical of the combat in Fallout, and I still stand by it. But even with a mediocre combat, the roleplaying, the atmosphere, the characterbuilding and writing is so good, than one can (and should) look over the problems of the combat system.
The characterbuilding was shit and the writing was average to below average.

What's the point of building a character when the gameplay is shit and you have no reason to care about the world? The vast majority of towns and places you can visit in Fallout one for example were very banal and didn't really succeed at creating any sense of wonder or interests in the player. There are exceptions of course, and those exceptions are part of reason I don't think Fallout 1 & 2 are shit games. The majority are still trash though, and the characterbuilding suffers as a result of that.

As for writing, don't make me laugh. There are many games with better narrative hooks and a better overall quality of NPCs and important characters than Fallout. Again, there are some memorable moments, and perhaps I would view the game's writing more favorably if they had done a better job of getting me invested into the world and the characters, but as it stands the games writing is mediocre.
The premise of fallout 1 and 2 compared to underrail is also entirely different.

In underrail you start out in a fully operational bunker, a big HUB area run by your own corp, and you have to do their missions and shit. No rush, you're just basically a newfag drone.

In fallout, you basically just drift along alone like a wanderer in a nuclear wasteland, or did that setting elude you? You are immediately put in a dangerous situation, because the situation warrants it and you cannot stay in the vault. Could fallout 1 have benefitted from starting you out in Vault 13, and letting you walk around and having quests and shit? Maybe? But probably not. Fallout 1 as I said has an entirely different narrative structure and progression than underrail and others.
Irrelevant. You're right, they have completely different premises, and I'm not trying to suggest that one premise was better than the other. What I'm saying is that Underrail executed its premise in a way that's much better than Fallout's. I was not impressed with the nuclear wasteland at all.
Fallout and Underrail are both about exploration, but go at it in very different ways. And how the fuck can you think the STORY of underrail is better than fallout? Let alone the writing? that kind of boggles my mind.

I mean the writing in underrail wasn't BAD per se, but it wasn't fucking winning any literary prizes either. And the story is so-so. You're average faction-war and a big bad monster, I guess similar to fallout, but alot worse, and alot less engaging as a concept.
The story and writing in Underrail is fucking great, and the majority of people that talk shit against it either didn't get to access some aspects of secret content, and/or they missed the various clues throughout the game in both lore dumps and between characters that tell you a ton about the setting and whats happened in the world. It has great descriptive prose and it manages to create a world where all the locations and characters that inhabit said locations are very unique. You can often tell where someone's from how they're dressed, how they speak, and other such things.

Fallout's prose is literally just as concise as Underrail lmfao. I really don't understand why the fuck people put its trite and banal dialogue and ideas on such a high pedestal.
Lastly, from a mechanical standpoint, fallout 1 and 2 combat was p. lackluster and boring, but since it was turn-based, relatively quick animations and combat slider AND it had satisfying death animations and impactful sound design, the combat suddenly became much more tolerable.
Fuck me why does everyone have to bring up these shitty death animations every time we talk about these games?! Just because the combat is turn based and quick doesn't mean it's any less SHIT! After the first two or three times, the death animations literally become irrelevant. It's like the Codex is comprised of children that get amused by the tiniest little thing. Go play DOOM if you want some death animations, I've heard it's got a ton.
Underrail combat is far more complex and well, better, than fallouts, but in terms of visual style, feel and that stuff, fallout kind of still wins out.
LOL. Visual style? You're going to compare this
shacknews-fallout-oral-history_feature.jpg
to this?
Xpbl_ferryman.png
Miss me please. Underrail is a gorgeous game with an art style that fits its atmosphere and theme perfectly. It's only going to look even better once Styg puts out the particle updates that he's been working on with Infusion.
because underrail is so colorful and
Literal brainmelt, linking a map instead of actual images of the game. According to this map, FO1 has like 4 colors.
latest
Honestly though, this is a great map. Wish the art style looked as good as this map does.
Maybe I'm sucking this game's dick too hard, cause for the majority of the game the writing, characters and quests are pretty bland and forgetable
Take your Underrail avatar off then faggot. Game has great writing, characters, and quests. Guess you failed to meet the IQ requirement to understand if Dude's quest is the only one you can think of.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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Fallout is great and all, but from a combatfag perspective, it's meh to alright.
Anyone, who thinks that Fallout has bad combat is gay.
Yeah, the combat in F1-2 is very fun. The one real problem is that there is plethora of weapons, but using most of them makes little to no sense, although they do allow for some fun gimped builds when you're replaying the game for 145th time.
 

Quillon

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Literal brainmelt, linking a map instead of actual images of the game. According to this map, FO1 has like 4 colors.

map is about your rectangles jab at Fallout(which I've quoted in the post), underrail's color pallette is fifty shades of gray anyway.
 
Last edited:

Butter

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Did any of you jokers play KotOR? I'm doing it right now and it redefines bad combat in a way I never thought was possible. Fallout looks like JA2 by comparison.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In Underrail everything is grey and there aren't any diagonal wall pieces either afaik.
There aren't diagonal wall pieces because it's a hex based system, which would make facilitating a diagonal wall very difficult. Doesn't really matter though, because you don't need diagonal rooms to make a good room/map.
map is about your rectangles jab at Fallout(which I've quoted in the post), underrail's color pallette is fifty shades of gray anyway.
When I said rectangles, I specifically was referring to most of the buildings look like this.
images
While in Underrail, you've got a lot of variation and window dressing which just makes everything look better.
maxresdefault.jpg

300px-Camp_Hathor_docks.png

11310_500.jpg

75

underrail-281.jpg
This is true. Too few people realize that Arcanum is the better Fallout.
Arcanum was a broken mess for me but whatever, you agree with my overall point that Fallout is overrated so that's all that matters.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Did any of you jokers play KotOR? I'm doing it right now and it redefines bad combat in a way I never thought was possible. Fallout looks like JA2 by comparison.
KotOR combat was nothing to write home about but it was mechanically sound and it did a good job of staying relatively unobtrusive so that the stronger elements of the KotOR series (setting, atmosphere, quests, companions, story) could carry the experience. One of the few non isometric RPGs I can actually enjoy since the game feels like butter to play, even if the combat is too easy.
 

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