Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

[KeighnMcDeath]

Castlevania is why I bought a NES. People give shit to CV2 but I liked it. Bosses were lame though. Wizards & Warriors was awesome, Mario Bros (not super though I enoyed SM1-3 a lot), Metal Gear, and I liked Deadly Towers. Gauntlet was ok as well. I can only go by games I had. At a rental shop I saw Bardstale, Might & magic, and pools and wanted to try them but my VCR-like nes was busted.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

All things considered? I grant you it had some nice scenery and it was reasonably fun, but combatwise it was not up to the Goldbox games.

Please. Go and read each section of my revised retrospective; especially the combat-related sections. Then try to apply such commentary to the Goldbox games. Doesn't work because Goldbox combat has no depth IN COMPARISON.

Just because a game is turn-based, doesn't mean it's good. And this coming from someone who has covered the three greatest turn-based tactics games in the genre: Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE and Silent Storm (which no commentator has ever done before, I might add, because they're jokers).

I wonder how many Goldbox grandpas have even played THOSE.

I have honestly never heard of the Silent Storm Series. I noticed Gog and steam have gold versions but no mention of Hammer&Sickle. Why does the titles start with S2? Was there an S1 series? Kind of deviating from POOLS. I will obviously note most Goldbox is magic fantasy while Jagged & Silent are modern warfare. I haven't actually looked to see if either of those had a heavy fantasy or medieval mod/build.

 

[Null Null]

For what it's worth, I played the PC version more times than I can remember, and never finished the NES version once.

I think the large number of menu options is practical on the PC but requires a much larger number of 'clicks' on the NES to pick the option you want, rendering the annoying parts much more annoying.

 

[Roguey]

Why does the titles start with S2?

They call it S2 instead of SS.

 

[Incendax]

What the fuck are you doing with those names?

 

[Roguey]

What the fuck are you doing with those names?

My character names? In order to keep things easy for myself I named them by role, so fighter, fighter/cleric, fighter/mage/thief, and two fighter/mages.

 

[Twizman]

Similar to the mass sleep aoe in PoR, one can web / wand of fire spam mobs in Baldur's Gate too. After a playthrough or two, you can metagame the key enemy parties and encounters, send a stealthed thief out and bomb them hard.

I seem to have done something similar to JarlFrank - I'm interested in the history of games and went back through a lot of the rpg classics later, particularly via console emulators. Born in 88', my favourite system is now the NES. At some point I noticed an increasing 'hollywoodization' of rpgs, to introduce more story elements, cutscenes, and more pre-defined pathing, less open-world, less player party creation. Some factors for this I'm aware of were lesser technological limitations over time for developers, the success of Final Fantasy IV, and maybe the increasing popularity of gaming.

What I want from an rpg at some point resolved to be titles that inherited many elements of the Wizardry-style, with less hand-holding, interruptions on gameplay, long animations etc, and a preference for heavy party-based combat ('combatfag'). I feel like FFIV achieved a perhaps rare balance between both though, with good pacing.

 

[Roguey]

Similar to the mass sleep aoe in PoR, one can web / wand of fire spam mobs in Baldur's Gate too. After a playthrough or two, you can metagame the key enemy parties and encounters, send a stealthed thief out and bomb them hard.

The difference between them is that in BG you don't have to do that to make the gameplay tolerable. Early game PoR is such a miss-fest against overwhelming odds that you're punishing yourself not playing this way.

 

[octavius]

You just need to git gud.

Make sure the frontline is as small as possible. Cast Sleep if needed. Use a Hero as meat shield.
Have your own guys equip bows. With 18 Dex (which is the most important stat; much more so than Str IMO) you get a decent THAC0 (even better if Elf wielding Longbow, and multi-class Elves rule in PoR) and two attacks per round. Target enemy archers first. They are also good targets for Sleep if there is a group of them clumped together.

It's not very difficult, but requires some patience.

 

[Roguey]

You just need to git gud.

Your suggestion is to use sleep, which I did, constantly.

 

[octavius]

No, my suggestion is to use Sleep, if needed. You don't need Sleep against 20 orcs if only two of them can be in the front row, for example.
The imperative word is patience.

 

[overly excitable young man]

No, my suggestion is to use Sleep, if needed. You don't need Sleep against 20 orcs if only two of them can be in the front row, for example.
The imperative word is patience.

Why should you do that if it's instakills with sleep? The rooms are so tightly packed with enemies that you always get at least 6 enemies with one sleep spell.
To enjoy the missing for a longer time?

 

[octavius]

No, my suggestion is to use Sleep, if needed. You don't need Sleep against 20 orcs if only two of them can be in the front row, for example.
The imperative word is patience.

Why should you do that if it's instakills with sleep? The rooms are so tightly packed with enemies that you always get at least 6 enemies with one sleep spell.
To enjoy the missing for a longer time?

Unless you rest spam, you have a limited supply of Sleep spells (another reason why MC Elves rule).
If you miss all the time you are doing something wrong.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Why wouldnt you rest after each fight?
Do you actively work on making the game as boring a drag as possible?
When was the last time you played a real time game?

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

PoR is probably the most tight of the Gold Box games, but you've got to enjoy approaching it as a tactical experience. Expecting an Infinity engine rest -> spaz -> rest style of game play will certainly leave you let down. Gold Box is much closer to actual Tabletop.

 

[overly excitable young man]

You play tabletop with 15 encounters in half an hour? OK dude.

 

[Jason Liang]

No one thinks Phlan slums is the best part of Pool of Radiance. So it's pretty stupid to judge the entire game on it.

 

[overly excitable young man]

After how many maps full of trash mobs does it become good?

 

[octavius]

It's good from the beginning. Those bar brawls were epic!

 

[Dorateen]

No one thinks Phlan slums is the best part of Pool of Radiance.

I don't think the Slums are the best part of the game, there are many highlights throughout the adventure. But it is a well constructed area for a low level party. You've got the overarching goal of clearing the slums by beating a number of random encounters. Then there are also lair encounters, with the opportunity to find magic treasure. Sprinkled with clues and secret doors. The Old Rope Guild, which is a separate zoned off maze, that set the standard for including "coming of age" battles in computer role-playing games to test your characters. Most of all it creates the sense of running raids into a hostile environment, falling back when the party needs to recover. The Phlan slums set the foundational theme of slowly reclaiming the city one block at a time.

 

[octavius]

I'd say the Slums were some of the better areas, since it's more unique, fighting literally armies of goblinoids, in addition to the infamous Ropers Guild fight. Most of the other areas are more standard, and they tend to become too easy for an experienced party. Especially the sorceror in the Ziggurat and the Commander of the Buccaneer's Camp were pushovers.

It's the really big fights - Sokol Keep, Nomad Camp, and especially the three waves of Kobolds and allies in the Kobold Caves - that are memorable, and quite unique for PoR.

 

[Dorateen]

How did you find the fight with the Commandant in the Zhenthil outpost? I remember it coming down to our party's two frontline characters left standing, surrounded, and managed to pull out a victory.

 

[octavius]

Zhentil Outpost was more of a challenge since you fight an army. But at that time you have access to lvl 3 spells and it will be natural to rest afterwards, so I don't hold anything back. IIRC Charm Person was very useful in this fight.

 

[almondblight]

PoR is probably the most tight of the Gold Box games, but you've got to enjoy approaching it as a tactical experience. Expecting an Infinity engine rest -> spaz -> rest style of game play will certainly leave you let down. Gold Box is much closer to actual Tabletop.

That's the problem with games like PoR and BG that let you rest whenever you like. The suggestion is "just don't do it too much", but what does "too much" actually mean? Instead of the game providing a good amount of difficulty, you're telling the player that they have to make their own difficulty by handicapping themselves. Games that have a limited number of rests (like campfires) or reset things after each battle handle things better.

Having said that, I didn't rest that much in the slums and went through many of the battles without using sleep. It doesn't make the experience more tactical since there aren't that many options available to you. The only real fight I enjoyed in the slums was the troll one at the end of the maze (one of the few memorable fights from what I played of the game).

 

[Removal]

Games that have a limited number of rests (like campfires) or reset things after each battle handle things better.

That and/or make resting outside of "safe areas" very dangerous
toss in a safe room/area every now and then that you have to fight for or find