Are you a Storyfag or a Gameplayfag?

[fantadomat]

Because of them we have shit like diablo!

There are good story focused games like Planescape and good games with almost zero story like Mount & Blade. Also, the LORE of games like Diablo 1/2 and Dark Souls 1/2/3 aren't bad. And diablo 3 sucks because the mechanic and arstyle is opposite to the game lore. The artstyle, mechanics and lore should all have internal consistency with each other in order to make yourself fell immersed in that fictional world. It is the case of good story focused games like VtMB and of good combat focused games like Dark Souls.

wait why do you hate kangmaker
i thought it's like bg2

Cuckmaker is nothing like BG2 in any way, shape, or form. The only thing they share are the isometric view, implementation of DnD (ahem, "Pathfinder", which is literally bootleg DnD), and RTwP. But they aren't anything alike. BG2 had a QA stage in development, for instance, and was balanced by normal human beings and not psychopaths.

Wrong. Pathfinder Kingmaker is better in some aspects like character creation and worst in others like encounter design BUT anyone who complains about kingmaker "balance" is dumb enough to not be able to open the menu and click on 'easy" mode. Kingmaker was made to be a challenge to CRPG veterans even on normal mode.

Sure,but neither of them is a RPG. DS is jrpg larping as western one,diablo is hack and slash......tho the first one was good ,the second was popamole,M&B does have pretty good RPG system but it is seen as combat simulator or something similar. M&B's hardcore fans don't even know that it is RPG.

Dark Souls has stats, choices and consequences(linking or not the flame), rewards exploration, decisions that impact your character, spell slots instead of cooldowns(...) the unique thing from RPG's that it lacks is the romanceable elf companions. But i agree that Diablo 1 was decent. In fact, you can see the decline on how a magician learns how to throw fire in the game

• diablo 1 - reading magical tomes
• diablo 2 - investing skill points
• diablo 3 - finding a bigger and sharper axe

PS : Dark Souls would be unplayable if you had to play as Van, Luso or Krys from legend of Krys ( https://drawfee.fandom.com/wiki/The_Legends_of_Krys )

Having stats doesn't make it less JRPG . The atmosphere,level design,costume design and quite a few other things make it a jrpg. DS is what japs think that a western rpg is like but miss the mark because they lack the real life experience living in the west. Cultures are very different and they do have big impact on to devs and the games they make. People trying to larp as another culture always end up strange. Slavs are masters of the dark and realistic shit,germans are great at crafting medieval fantasy worlds,French do well with surreal undertones,etc etc.

LARPING or not, games like Dark Souls has way more RPG on it than Diablo 3, WoW, Fallout 76 and so on. From Software don't threat their users like retards. And despite the longbow being probably the most iconic British medieval weapon, most games threats longbows like trash, Dragon's Dogma did a amazing job with such iconic battlefield changing weapon, a thing which no British dev did.

Even if this games aren't pure WRPG, i rather play Nioh 2 than most modern WRPG's. Just like i rather read berserk over marvel new heroes. If you ignore the stories about androgynous teenagers with oversized swords saving the world, there are a lot of cool stuff on Japan, since the west is plagued by the excessive focus on appeal to the lowest common denominator and please purple haireds which never buy the game in the first place.

Nigga try to animesplain me when you hit my numbers.
https://myanimelist.net/animelist/dark___devil

No need to get defensive,i said only that it is a jrpg larping as RPG,didn't say that it is shit or inferior to falloyt69. I am pureist,don't like different subgenres in my RPG list. If it was to me i would have cut out a bunch of games from the codexian top rpg lists. Not because they are shit,but because they are not RPGs.

 

[Cryomancer]

OLD THING GOOD
NEW THING BAD

Depends the old and the new.

No need to get defensive,i said only that it is a jrpg larping as RPG,didn't say that it is shit or inferior to falloyt69. I am pureist,don't like different subgenres in my RPG list. If it was to me i would have cut out a bunch of games from the codexian top rpg lists. Not because they are shit,but because they are not RPGs.

Yep. You are right. For a purist point of view, they are still different games. But do you hate the earlier jrpgs like FF 1 too?

 

[fantadomat]

OLD THING GOOD
NEW THING BAD

Depends the old and the new.

No need to get defensive,i said only that it is a jrpg larping as RPG,didn't say that it is shit or inferior to falloyt69. I am pureist,don't like different subgenres in my RPG list. If it was to me i would have cut out a bunch of games from the codexian top rpg lists. Not because they are shit,but because they are not RPGs.

Yep. You are right. For a purist point of view, they are still different games. But do you hate the earlier jrpgs like FF 1 too?

Don't hate jrpgs,just don't play them that much. It is the most repetitive sub genre in all of gaming. Every games is absolutely the same. It is really frustrating since there are good core ideas but they never evolve on to them. Also their story telling is very limited. I find it amusing how people talk about the chosenone trope yet don't get it that there is handful of chosenone RPGs while almost all of the jrgs are with it.

 

[octavius]

ToEE and IWD,which both of them are good games,but not something that people replay 5 times,

You're a funny dumbfuck. Unless you count completing Diablo 2 with all classes, IWD is in fact the only CRPG I have replayed 5 times.

 

[Lilura]

You're a funny dumbfuck. Unless you count completing Diablo 2 with all classes, IWD is in fact the only CRPG I have replayed 5 times.

Octavia has me in her iggy bin due to butthurt, but I have to say this anyway: you have only played IWD five times?

Newb.

 

[TemplarGR]

Don't hate jrpgs,just don't play them that much. It is the most repetitive sub genre in all of gaming. Every games is absolutely the same. It is really frustrating since there are good core ideas but they never evolve on to them. Also their story telling is very limited. I find it amusing how people talk about the chosenone trope yet don't get it that there is handful of chosenone RPGs while almost all of the jrgs are with it.

The things you criticize for jrpgs, apply to most crpgs as well. Western crpgs are extremely repetitive, and used to be even more repetitive in the past. Ultima series, Wizardry, M&M, were exactly the same. Isometric crpgs are exactly the same. And you are doing the same combat for 100s of hours in every "incline" crpg, so i don't understand how can you claim that jrpgs are repetitive but wrpgs are not.

In reality, rpgs suck and are repetitive in general. The biggest issue with RPGs is that when developers try to innovate and advance the genre, like the glorius Bethesda, spergs assault them and hate them.

Spergs want CRPGS that are exactly the same as 1998 crpgs, just with better textures and higher resolutions. And then they go around criticizing jrpgs for staying the same.

 

[Sweeper]

Spergs want CRPGS that are exactly the same as 1998 crpgs, just with better textures and higher resolutions. And then they go around criticizing jrpgs for staying the same.

 

[fantadomat]

 

[Cryomancer]

The things you criticize for jrpgs, apply to most crpgs as well. Western crpgs are extremely repetitive, and used to be even more repetitive in the past. Ultima series, Wizardry, M&M, were exactly the same. Isometric crpgs are exactly the same. And you are doing the same combat for 100s of hours in every "incline" crpg, so i don't understand how can you claim that jrpgs are repetitive but wrpgs are not.

You are completely wrong. People debate till this day which one is the best M&M.

And the combat changes a lot each lv up, each new item, each new spell, each new mob changes things. Fighting a dragon is completely different than fighting rogues. I literally used CTRL + F on BG2 reviews and NOBODY criticized the repetitiveness on steam ( https://steamcommunity.com/app/257350/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_ )

The biggest issue with RPGs is that when developers try to innovate and advance the genre, like the glorius Bethesda, spergs assault them and hate them.

Wrong. My last skyrim mage run.

Lv 5 = Spam fire bolt on 95%+ of encounters
Lv 50 = Spam fire bolt on 95%+ of encounters

Firebolt is the most mana effective spell which when dual cast can stagger anything to their death. If at least enemies had a flat damage resistance, you will see prople changing to expert level magic like ice spear because this spells would be better vs heavily armored enemies but was only waste of time and money...

Spergs want CRPGS that are exactly the same as 1998 crpgs, just with better textures and higher resolutions.

And MORE SPELLS, more classes, more content, more variety on enemies, more optional rules, destructive scenario(...)

Baldur's Gate 2 had over 300 spells. Dragon Age Origins around 90 and Inquisition, about 20. Where are you seeing incline?

When i played M&M VII, my first RPG, i tough "on future, RPGs will have photorealistic graphics, scenario destruction, spells interacting with the buildings and advanced AI to allow the player to do things that he could't even dream" and we got cartoonish games with boring cooldown management formula...

 

[Egosphere]

voted storyfag, since I'll most likely finish an rpg with a decent story and passable gameplay, than an rpg with decent gameplay but a boring story.
Ofc it's gameplay for everything else - action games, mil-sims, strategy

 

[The Jester]

It doesn't matter which medium, a book, a tv show, a movie, i always looking for a good story, and i must say the most disappointing one so far is my life.

 

[TemplarGR]

You are completely wrong. People debate till this day which one is the best M&M.

And the combat changes a lot each lv up, each new item, each new spell, each new mob changes things. Fighting a dragon is completely different than fighting rogues. I literally used CTRL + F on BG2 reviews and NOBODY criticized the repetitiveness on steam ( https://steamcommunity.com/app/257350/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_ )



Wrong. My last skyrim mage run.

Lv 5 = Spam fire bolt on 95%+ of encounters
Lv 50 = Spam fire bolt on 95%+ of encounters

Firebolt is the most mana effective spell which when dual cast can stagger anything to their death. If at least enemies had a flat damage resistance, you will see prople changing to expert level magic like ice spear because this spells would be better vs heavily armored enemies but was only waste of time and money...



And MORE SPELLS, more classes, more content, more variety on enemies, more optional rules, destructive scenario(...)

Baldur's Gate 2 had over 300 spells. Dragon Age Origins around 90 and Inquisition, about 20. Where are you seeing incline?

When i played M&M VII, my first RPG, i tough "on future, RPGs will have photorealistic graphics, scenario destruction, spells interacting with the buildings and advanced AI to allow the player to do things that he could't even dream" and we got cartoonish games with boring cooldown management formula...

Not only you are a sperg, you are a liar as well, and you are using double standards to make your fake-point.

1) In terms of gameplay, you are doing the same thing regardless of levels or enemies. You are clicking the same buttons and follow pretty much almost the same tactics. Or else, the same should apply to Final Fantasy. After all in Final Fantasy late game boss battles have different materia/limit breaks/characters to use, and bosses and enemies are different, so according to your ultra-retarded logic Final Fantasy VII is not repetitive either.

2) The Skyrim stuff you claim betray your double standards. According to your retardo-logic, advancing in levels makes things different in M&M but somehow adding dual casting and other perks and increasing destruction skill and wearing special destruction equipment etc etc does not make things different than before... Talking about double standards again....

3) BG2 had 300 spells, most of them were the same. They are basically variations of this : single projectile, multiple projectiles, AoE projectile, single buff, aoe buff, single debuff, aoe debuff, summon, utility. Yes increasing levels increases the numbers, and changing the "effect type" changes the particle effect, big fucking deal. It is the same shit. Not to mention that the separation of arcane spells and divine spells is ultra-retarded since most of those are extremely similar and the spell types that are exclusive to arcane or divine classes could just be turned into special class skills instead, and unify the common pool of magic.

But i suppose to a sperg, if i make a magic missile spell for Arcane, and make the same exact lvl 1 spell but instead of missiles it says "divine projectiles" and can be cast only by clerics/druids for the same exact effects, this counts for 2 different spells, right? Autism is strong with you.

 

[barghwata]

Spergs want CRPGS that are exactly the same as 1998 crpgs, just with better textures and higher resolutions. And then they go around criticizing jrpgs for staying the same.

Yea because CRPGs were good back then, JRPGs were always shit.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Combatfags at one side, storyfags at other, and I'm in the middle. Seriously:

- if story is shit, but gameplay is good I will ignore story and enjoy gameplay

- if story is good, but gameplay is shit I will suffer through gameplay to enjoy the story

But couple of points arises:

A) storyfag games have less replayability. Combat-based game offers you different builds, tactics, difficulties, RNG rolls to replay it. Story-based game is best at the first run, then second one to try all the forks, then third run five years later.

B) gameplay is exclusive to games. Sure, you can have some gameplay IRL, but real life has no savescumming and difficulty is brutal. My mate once tried melee one vs two, ended up with titanium plate in his skull. Stories, though, are not exclusive to games. There are movies. There are books - you guys remember this things? And, the fact is, even the best stories in games are just above average compared to literary or cinema best.

 

[Thac0]

Combatfags at one side, storyfags at other, and I'm in the middle. Seriously:

- if story is shit, but gameplay is good I will ignore story and enjoy gameplay

- if story is good, but gameplay is shit I will suffer through gameplay to enjoy the story

But couple of points arises:

A) storyfag games have less replayability. Combat-based game offers you different builds, tactics, difficulties, RNG rolls to replay it. Story-based game is best at the first run, then second one to try all the forks, then third run five years later.

B) gameplay is exclusive to games. Sure, you can have some gameplay IRL, but real life has no savescumming and difficulty is brutal. My mate once tried melee one vs two, ended up with titanium plate in his skull. Stories, though, are not exclusive to games. There are movies. There are books - you guys remember this things? And, the fact is, even the best stories in games are just above average compared to literary or cinema best.

I am on Ol'Willys side, I am a well rounded general faggot aswell. I value both in games and can play games which are just one of the two extremes. The truly best games are however those that have a healthy mixture of both.

 

[barghwata]

A) storyfag games have less replayability. Combat-based game offers you different builds, tactics, difficulties, RNG rolls to replay it. Story-based game is best at the first run, then second one to try all the forks, then third run five years later.

Agreed, gameplay has to always be the priority because games are games first and foremost but i think alot of people have this really limited view of what gameplay is, character building, exploration, quest design etc ..... are all different aspects of gameplay not just combat, but for some people bad combat= bad gameplay which isn't true.

 

[Cryomancer]

You are clicking the same buttons and follow pretty much almost the same tactics

Wrong. Fight a skeleton and a lich are completely different experiences.

2) The Skyrim stuff you claim betray your double standards. According to your retardo-logic, advancing in levels makes things different in M&M but somehow adding dual casting and other perks and increasing destruction skill and wearing special destruction equipment etc etc does not make things different than before... Talking about double standards again....

Wrong. Perks only affects damage. Hell, going from Eldritch Blast to Eldritch Chain on 3.5e i have more variety than with all offensive fire spells on skyrim...

Skyrim is great in other aspects. Like Archery and the vampire lord DLC makes spell casting more interesting, but why bugthesda had to lock first person on vampire form? I could be in werewolf form in first person back in morrowind.

They are basically variations of this : single projectile, multiple projectiles, AoE projectile, single buff, aoe buff, single debuff, aoe debuff, summon, utility.

Completely wrong. To name some tier 9 spells

• Imprisonment
  
• Energy Drain
• Freedom
  
• Chain Contingency
  
• Absolute Immunity
  
• Black Blade of Disaster
  
• Power Word, Kill
  
• Meteor Swarm
  
• Spellstrike
  
• Spell Trap
  
• Shapechange
  
• Time Stop
  
• Wail of the Banshee

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Spells_(Baldur's_Gate_II)

Unless you force things by putting wail of the banshee and meteor swarm in teh same category because both deals with a lot of mobs, each spell is unique. And summons, would you consider Black Blade of Disaster and Summon Efreet the same thing?

But for you when your firebolt goes from 40 to 60 damage, it is a new spell, when your mage can stop time, put 3 skull traps on a chain contigency or do all types of cool combos, is the same thing...

---------------------------

And lastly, i an not a indie fanboy. There are a lot in between a garage single dude RPG and AAA. Games made by medium sized studios, not EA/M$ like for eg, Dark/Demon Souls and some indie games like Kingmaker are the best ones IMO. Dragon's Dogma is from Capcom and great due being a game of medium size budget. In general, small studios produces the best tactical RPGs and medium sized, the best action RPGs. AAA sucks.

When you put too much money into a project, it needs to appeal to a huge audience and it means appeal to the lowest common denominator. similar to what happened with diversity hiring and affirmative action programs on Americas(yes, this plague exists even in white minority countries), appeal to the lowest common denominator destroys everything.

 

[undecaf]

Gameplayfag, I don't generally put a lot of attention to writing, at least not before I know the game in question is fun to play. But in an optimal case the "story" is part of the gameplay.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Please stop dragging my dark past back to the surface. Whether you're a storyfag or a gameplayfag, you're still a fag. Stop being a fag.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In RPGs, exploration is paramount, even over combat and certainly over story.

 

[Latro]

Combatfags at one side, storyfags at other, and I'm in the middle. Seriously:

- if story is shit, but gameplay is good I will ignore story and enjoy gameplay

- if story is good, but gameplay is shit I will suffer through gameplay to enjoy the story

But couple of points arises:

A) storyfag games have less replayability. Combat-based game offers you different builds, tactics, difficulties, RNG rolls to replay it. Story-based game is best at the first run, then second one to try all the forks, then third run five years later.

B) gameplay is exclusive to games. Sure, you can have some gameplay IRL, but real life has no savescumming and difficulty is brutal. My mate once tried melee one vs two, ended up with titanium plate in his skull. Stories, though, are not exclusive to games. There are movies. There are books - you guys remember this things? And, the fact is, even the best stories in games are just above average compared to literary or cinema best.

Games with good gameplay > games with good story. I wouldn't say a game with a good story is complete shit, but compared to a game with good gameplay, the gameplay game is superior and should not be ranked lower. This is the real argument between the two camps. A game without good gameplay is inferior to a game with good gameplay.

In RPGs, exploration is paramount, even over combat and certainly over story.

combat vs exploration games are a certainly more compelling argument than combat vs story.

 

[barghwata]

In RPGs, exploration is paramount, even over combat and certainly over story.

Agreed, designing an interactive gameworld that can be explored and approached by the player in different ways depending on what kind of build they have, while rewarding the player with progression through that exploration is probably the single most important thing in an RPG, much more so then combat or story.

That's why i think games like deus ex and underrail are alot more RPG then something like say... PS:T or ToEE despite those being based on D&D.

 

[waken]

An interesting setting and story can certainly elevate a game, but for me it's gameplay for sure. The point of a game is the challenge, and competition (multiplayer), or simulation of competition (singleplayer). If I'm in the mood for story I'll just pick up a book from that unread-pile that never stops growing.

 

[Harthwain]

In RPGs, exploration is paramount, even over combat and certainly over story.

That's kind of obvious, considering that in order to experience more content you need to discover it. The real question is how exploration is handled. I really liked that in NEO Scavenger you don't just explore, you also interact with the in-game world on a fundamental level. You found something? There is a high chance you can make use of it, provided you know how. That's is gameplay in its own right: exploration AND interactivity.

 

[Lilura]

Explorefags are usually Bethes'tards. Zed Duke of Banville being a prime example.