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If RPGs Had Evolved Over The Past 20 Years...

Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
They would enforce a penalty for attacking giant creatures with tiny melee weapons. And provide benefits to appropriate weapons; such as kneecapping a giant with a two-handed hammer.

Purpose of the thread: attempt to make an indisputably inclined statement. Maybe a developer might find something interesting for the future.

Edit: for the autists. I'm just trying to make a simple thread with bite-sized statements that may be of interest to developers. The kind of stuff that you just think of while playing other games and think: "Dats de fing I've wanted in de games I play forever dat is".

But if retards want to suggest the thread is all about why games haven't evolved in 20 years - feel free.
Retards. :retarded:
 
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TemplarGR

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If RPGs had evolved, they would all be 1st person or 3rd person based. Isometric would have been eradicated as it is only fit for strategy games. Companions would be AI controlled, like they should be. You are roleplaying 1 character, not his friends. Even Fallout managed to get it right, but somehow in 2020 new rpgs still want you to roleplay a whole community of people, yet you only create 1 character, why is that? Companions should be AI, and if you are incapable of programming proper AI, do not make a party based rpg.
 

Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
- I've spent seveal hours killing thousands of Eldar across the world of Kronus. A slip of the typing trigger finger can be forgiven.

With that in mind: games would track your kills and provide you with insight bonuses against certain races and enemies.

Edit: Only poster that takes the thread seriously (or as seriously as he can) so far, and it's TemplarGR
Where the fuck did I go wrong in life to assume there would be a certain amount of decorum in this hive of scum and villainy?.
 

EldarEldrad

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RPG should be either party-based when you create whole party yourself from the beginning, or single-PC without goddamn companions. Especially if they are under control of degenerate AI.
 

Darth Canoli

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If RPGs Had Evolved Over The Past 20 Years...

RPG don't need evolution, they need to respect the basics and slightly improve upon the best formulas.

Examples :
  • A new Dark Sun with a KotC1-like engine with a focus on encounter design while strictly sticking to the the original design for everything else.
  • A ToEE-like cRPG where you replace the dull cities with Tarant or even AoD-like cities (for their content, not their size) and focus on the encounter design.

There's some ways to improve upon the basic formulas
  • With some scripted events like in KotC with the orc attack on startup or Torburry's invasion.
  • With some competing (and why not also some friendly) adventuring parties.
  • Some interesting combat skills (And No cool-downs), like Battle Brothers with different attacks for each weapon type.

Some more advanced evolutions are also possible but it's harder to pull, slightly improving the basics and the weakest features is the key.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If RPGs had evolved, they would all be 1st person or 3rd person based. Isometric would have been eradicated as it is only fit for strategy games.
Why do you have so many extra chromosomes? There are kids in Africa and India that could have put them to better use.
 

Curratum

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Jesus, who cares about this sort of thing? Even in pen and paper DnD you can attack a cloud giant with a dagger and everyone is fine with it. You're not just going up to him and poking his toe with it, use your fucking imagination a little.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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If CRPGs 20 years ago had rejected the decline wrought by Bioware, they could have evolved from strong underpinnings in a variety of subgenres to achieve new heights. Instead, CRPGs entered a wasteland period in which even a single adequate game was akin to an oasis in the desert, and it wasn't until 2012 that indie games established a new era of hemi-semi-demi-incline --- one that we've likely already exited and not for the better.
 

turkishronin

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where the best is like the worst
Even Fallout managed to get it right

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AdolfSatan

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A new Dark Sun with a KotC1-like engine with a focus on encounter design while strictly sticking to the the original design for everything else.

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Ol' Willy

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If we look at "evolution" of the games in the past 20 years - we will see that it's all about graphics. Not gameplay, not level design, not systems, not sound design, not voice acting, not writing, not dialogues, nope. Congratulations! Gaming industry reached the level of interactive Pixar movies.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If we look at "evolution" of the games in the past 20 years - we will see that it's all about graphics. Not gameplay, not level design, not systems, not sound design, not voice acting, not writing, not dialogues, nope. Congratulations! Gaming industry reached the level of interactive Pixar movies.
Except "graphics" haven't evolved either. Just because games are high fidelity doesn't mean they look good. True evolution would mean every RPG coming out today would look at least as good as, for example, IWD.
 
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JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If RPGs had evolved, they would have taken the ideas of the past and thought them one step further. Instead we're stuck at merely cloning the ideas of the past, or simplifying them rather than further developing them.

The 90s and 00s didn't see mere clones of what had come before, either. The genre did evolve up until that point. Fallout and Arcanum tried to inject more C&C into the story, Wizardry 8 implemented a basic formation system into gridless blobbers, Baldur's Gate was an RPG running on an RTS engine, etc. When it comes to individual features you had Daggerfall and Morrowind's piece-by-piece equipment system rather than the usual simplistic chest + helmet + boots, you had Arcanum use the stamina bar for spellcasting, you had different games try different skill and stat systems, etc. Today everything is very samey though, you rarely see any forward-thinking anymore. Equipment systems are usually always the same, skill and stat systems are usually very similar, magic usually works the same way, etc. Nobody tries to take the basic principles of RPGs and do something new with them. It's sad.
 
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90% of all RPGs being ''Epic story of chosen one, in high-fantasy medieval setting, with totally not D&D/LOTR inhabiting it" was my main issue with the genre, but it has been getting better as of late.

But to be fair, RPGs were were dead for the good half of those 20 years.
It's better now, cause difficulty of development went down significantly. Bunch of engines became more accessible and easier to use for small dev teams , and indie games are getting more attention from consumer nowadays.
 

Lagi

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my rpg'ing stop on IWD2 really, so probably some of this is a standard now?


1. power creep

starting character should be reasonable competent, not a complete noob that have to learn how to fight with a stick, by killing rats in basement.
Player are the chosen one for some quest after all. Why would they chose us, if every town guard wipe out party with 1 hit?

- killing small animals / goblins hidden in some cave, because some peasant would be grateful (XP!!) is a boring, game filler
- if you LARP, that dead character is dead (IronMan). The new one is just a cripple that need to be babsit / xp feed.
- comparing lvl 15 to lvl 1 (or some equivalent in other mechanic) - it should not be that lvl 15 is 1500% better, but ~+70% better.
- you need lvl adjusted encounter, treasure, traps for expected player level. Limit PC free roaming.

the hero strength improvement with each level should be ~+5% of starting capability. So you need 20 level to be double as good as fresh character (have 90% hit chance, instead 45%, have 24 hp instead 12hp, have 6 dmg reduction instead 3). If you combine this with items, spells, other buffs 20lvl is total about 4x as good as just generated acolyte with stick. And I mean just the stats, we all know human player with new tools, will abuse system, thus increasing his power even more.

1a. HP inflation

lvl 1 = 8 hp
lvl 15 = 120 hp

this is bad. f.ex. for scaling weapon damage. You need to add special enemies for high level party. And level requirement for item use. Because Sword +5 need to deal 10-50 dmg, instead 1-7, so the wielder have to be lvl 13.

should be like that (if its some warrior)
lvl 1 = 8 hp
lvl 15 = 24 hp​


1b. PC grown wide, instead up.
pc learn new tricks, instead getting better in old one.​

wizard instead having fire spell
lvl 1 = deal 4 dmg
lvl 15 = deal 80 dmg

should has
lvl 1 = 1x spell dealing 4 fire dmg
lvl 15 = 15x spell dealing 4 [fire/ice/poison/death/light/chocolate/blunt/.../eternal/salty] dmg​

=======

2. wound & 0 hp =/= dead

PC is fully functional on 1% hp. and at 0 hp is so dead, your only option is to cast Load Game.

2a.
let 0hp = unconscious. so if rest of the party prevail, you could bring him back. Like Resurrection, but just a common mechanic. Not endgame spell.
this would allow you to accept unfavorable outcome of combat, and go on with the story.

I try larp IWD this way. Trips to temple for resurrection, and spending whole gold + selling all magic items to afford Resurrection were even fun, to some extend, but very tedious.​

this is also a great opportunity to introduce permanent negative perks (like in Darkest Dungeon), minor debuff, that dont cripple PC, but highlight the character. ["you cannot drink more than 1 potion per day, due to belly wound", "you scared of dark"]


2b.
if you get hit by mundane weapon, you could get wound, a debuff , that you need to heal after.
exactly like with enemy wizard casting Slow on your rouge, enemy Fighter will "cast" a Bleeding with his sword.​


 
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RPGs need to evolve past linear dice mechanics. 1d20+X is deeply inferior to multi-dice systems. For example, Roll 3d8 take the highest, add/subtract constant modifiers.

It solves the scaling and bloat problem. This solves the need for every more fantastic challenges, with everything prior becoming trash/drudgery. It also allows you to far better abstract natural ability and experience/training. It will improve overall design because it is more flexible yet consistent. USE MORE DICE.
 

Lagi

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RPGs need to evolve past linear dice mechanics. 1d20+X is deeply inferior to multi-dice systems. For example, Roll 3d8 take the highest, add/subtract constant modifiers.

It solves the scaling and bloat problem. This solves the need for every more fantastic challenges, with everything prior becoming trash/drudgery. It also allows you to far better abstract natural ability and experience/training. It will improve overall design because it is more flexible yet consistent. USE MORE DICE.

if I see "damage 2-9" i expect each of this value to happen. I would feel cheated if 50% of the time i get 8 or more. Its more easier to predict new outcome, when i receive +1 to min damage. How do you write down stats?
"Sword : damage 4d8, choose second highest dice for result" or "Sword : usually 6 damage, but can be 1 (its 1 in 4096 chance 0,00024%)".
I agree multi-dice better simulating "normal distribution" , but i think its better to apply this to pen and paper games. OR completely hide any numbers & math formulas from player (i know heresy).
 

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