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The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

Azdul

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The way RTX does raytracing is kinda retarded to be honest. Next gen raytracing is going to be much more efficient than that. It will also utilize cpu cores and won't run on gpus alone. Let us wait for the hardware to arrive at our hands before we jump to conclusions.
There are two parts to raytracing - tracing real rays, and extrapolating the results to simulate much larger number of rays.

The first part is embarrassingly parallel algorithm, and can be run on either GPU or CPU. In both cases it is equally hard, as it need constant access to complete geometry of the scene - it needs access to large memory structures than do not fit in low level cache. Intel used raytracing to demonstrate advantages of Larrabee architecture, because it was particularly good fit.

If you use anything else than 512 Larrabee cores used for Intel demos, you are limited in the number of rays you can reasonably trace. That's where second part comes in - extrapolating the results, and tensor cores of RTX are reasonably good at it.

What is possible without hundreds of cores and without RTX ? Probably reflections not limited to screen space on some surfaces, as seen in PS5 gameplay footage and AMD demos, and not much more.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
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There are two parts to raytracing - tracing real rays, and extrapolating the results to simulate much larger number of rays.

The first part is embarrassingly parallel algorithm, and can be run on either GPU or CPU. In both cases it is equally hard, as it need constant access to complete geometry of the scene - it needs access to large memory structures than do not fit in low level cache. Intel used raytracing to demonstrate advantages of Larrabee architecture, because it was particularly good fit.

If you use anything else than 512 Larrabee cores used for Intel demos, you are limited in the number of rays you can reasonably trace. That's where second part comes in - extrapolating the results, and tensor cores of RTX are reasonably good at it.

What is possible without hundreds of cores and without RTX ? Probably reflections not limited to screen space on some surfaces, as seen in PS5 gameplay footage and AMD demos, and not much more.

Your info about raytracing is very old and Nvidia-biased. 512 Larrabee cores are extremely weak by modern standards. Remember Larrabee cores are essential Pentium 1 cores. Without MMX. Just the original Pentium 1 core. This was an in order cpu. Its IPC is really much lower than modern ARM. So even 512 of those things are not impressive if you compare them to something like 16, 32, or 64 Ryzen cores. And we are very near the age of the 64 core desktop cpu, much closer than people think, and then everything will be raytraced.

Contrary to popular belief, a single core that can run let's say at 4ghz, is better than 4 cores running at 1ghz each. Much better. There is no comparison, really, it is always best to have a single powerful core than more weaker cores, no matter the problem you want to solve. The reason is that more processess can take turns on a powerful core and essentially run finish at the same time, but a single heavy process can't exploit easily more cores than one, there is always a cost.

Larrabee was a tech demo for Intel. Intel wanted to see if they could use their chips, stripped of the cpu-only features to save transistor area and thermals, and make a gpu. It failed. This does not mean that cpu-based raytracing will fail.

The problem with RTX, essentially, is that it is not real raytracing. It is essentially a shader effect, running on traditional raster graphics. And it is very unoptimized. AMD has filed a patent for a solution that is better and exploits the cpu cores more. So let's wait and see....
 

Azdul

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Remember Larrabee cores are essential Pentium 1 cores. Without MMX.
Larrabee core has 4 times as much SSE execution units as I5 core - so it does have MMX, and plenty of it.

Contrary to popular belief, a single core that can run let's say at 4ghz, is better than 4 cores running at 1ghz each. Much better. There is no comparison, really, it is always best to have a single powerful core than more weaker cores, no matter the problem you want to solve.
For 95% of computational problems it's true. But when you have embarrassingly parallel problem, that can be divided into smaller chunks (single ray), and you have in-order architecture, so scheduling can be done at compilation time - it's better to have 5 cores at 1 Ghz than one core at 4 Ghz.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,465
Dream of every gamer... 64 core cpu, 63 used for RT.

Historically renderfarmers are cpu elitists against gpu wrt. rendering, and 63 is still "very pale" :lol:
Obviously it's not coming because image based methods aren't something to be superseded but complemented at most.
 

Kem0sabe

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ps5-games-bol.jpg


Apparently 75 euros is the retail price for new games in europe, disk games that is, which have traditionally been cheaper than the PS store. 80 euros for the digital version, even 75 for disk, is extremely expensive for a game.
 

Villagkouras

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Greece
ps5-games-bol.jpg


Apparently 75 euros is the retail price for new games in europe, disk games that is, which have traditionally been cheaper than the PS store. 80 euros for the digital version, even 75 for disk, is extremely expensive for a game.
OK, millions of people in all over the world lost their jobs and more can potentially lose them in winter if/when the second wave of coronavirus strikes, so what are we going to do? Let's increase the price of a non essential product by 25-30%.
 

Kem0sabe

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OK, millions of people in all over the world lost their jobs and more can potentially lose them in winter if/when the second wave of coronavirus strikes, so what are we going to do? Let's increase the price of a non essential product by 25-30%.
I hope the new and more expensive consoles, as well as the incredibly priced new games that come out with them, fail to meet all sales expectations and consumers send a clear signal that raising prices way above inflammation in the midst of the worse economic crisis in recent memory is not only anti consumer but also immoral.

Sadly I don't think it will happen, people will get loans to finance their vices, parents will make unfair sacrifices to try and maintain a semblance of normalcy for their kids, and these fucking companies will laugh all the way to the bank.
 

Toffeli

Atomkrieg, ja bitte
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Wasteland 2
ps5-games-bol.jpg


Apparently 75 euros is the retail price for new games in europe, disk games that is, which have traditionally been cheaper than the PS store. 80 euros for the digital version, even 75 for disk, is extremely expensive for a game.

GTA 5, a game originally released in 2013, for a console two generations older, priced 75e.
:prosper::prosper::prosper::prosper:

And it will still sell at least a couple million more :negative:
 

Markman

da Blitz master
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Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Dont give a shit about prices anyway, there is still game pass and I got like 300 games on Xbone.
Till im done with enhanced titles and game pass additions most of the shit will be 50-75% off anyway.

Also if you missed it
 

DalekFlay

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New Vegas
Apparently 75 euros is the retail price for new games in europe, disk games that is, which have traditionally been cheaper than the PS store. 80 euros for the digital version, even 75 for disk, is extremely expensive for a game.

The Spider-man thing is confirmed as an expansion or whatever, so I'd be very surprised if it's full price. That makes me question that ad.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
1,611
OK, millions of people in all over the world lost their jobs and more can potentially lose them in winter if/when the second wave of coronavirus strikes, so what are we going to do? Let's increase the price of a non essential product by 25-30%.
I hope the new and more expensive consoles, as well as the incredibly priced new games that come out with them, fail to meet all sales expectations and consumers send a clear signal that raising prices way above inflammation in the midst of the worse economic crisis in recent memory is not only anti consumer but also immoral.

Sadly I don't think it will happen, people will get loans to finance their vices, parents will make unfair sacrifices to try and maintain a semblance of normalcy for their kids, and these fucking companies will laugh all the way to the bank.
Game streaming services that offer a catalog of games for less than $20 a month should also see faster than expected growth.
 

cosmicray

Savant
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
436
Lol, with the lack of regional prices akin to Steam it would even be more laughable in places like Russia/Brazil. 90$ fucking dollars.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
Eh? That's approximately $90 Dollars. Ouch...

They don't usually go by conversion rates, they go by local economies, so they'll likely be the same in dollars in the US.

I know. I was saying ouch for them not for us. :)

It's still a pretty big hike though no matter where you're at. I'm a little surprised because I was expecting $70 not $80. (Assuming this is actually the case.)
 

Markman

da Blitz master
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Messages
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Sthlm, Swe
Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Increased price hike is gonna make GamePass more popular.

Imagine you wanna play new Halo with some of your friends and all you need is any kind of PC or Xbox and a GamePass. Even a phone will do in a year or two. No purchase needed for a new X or anyone buying the game at full price.
If Microsoft opens their wallet even more for some popular 3rd party releases to include them on day one its gonna be hard to compete.
Sneaky motherfuckers.
 

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