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The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians - dungeon crawler with RTwP combat

anvi

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GOG refused it for "being too niche"
Wtf -.- GoG's entire company was set up to sell old games like tactical RPGs. Now they don't want to sell a modern version? What a bunch of sell outs.
 

anvi

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70% off on Steam at the moment! Get it now. I am really enjoying this. It is like this game was made for me personally. I have been talking about multiboxing MMOs for years and how RPG combat needs to catch up, and this game basically does exactly what I've been saying needs to be done!
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
@anvi,
glad to know you enjoy the game ! :)
And even more glad to see you share my vision for RPG combat : after I have played WoW with real tanking & heavy healing + threat management, it's hard to go back to the simpler combat model of classic solo-RPGs..!
 

agris

Arcane
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6,759
With the release of BT4, I feel like this release needs a little more attention. What was the consensus? I'm not a huge fan of RT blobber combat, would prefer TB, but RTw/P doesn't sound so bad.

How is character customization and skill/item differentiation?

edit: requisite

:necro:
 

newtmonkey

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Goblin Lair
I started playing this recently, I really like it so far (but only a couple hours in).

No "dance of death" needed (or even possible as far as I can tell), though you can flee in real time to back up and wait around the corner if you encounter ranged attackers, etc. You don't need to dance around attacks like in Grimrock, because there's no need to conserve HP/mana, since they regenerate at a decent rate.

It's basically MMORPG combat. I thought I'd be turned off by that, but with RTw/P it's pretty fun. You need your typical Tank, Damage Dealer (physical), Healer, and Damage Dealer (magic) characters, but you can specialize each into a few different subclasses.

I haven't played it far enough to really get into character building or itemization, but it seems decent anyway so far.

I also like that you need to find a map in each level to turn the automap on. It gives it a feel of having to blindly stumble around for half the level, then you can go back and check all the stuff you missed once you get the map. (There is an option to turn automap on at all times also).

The options are nuts in this game. You can really customize it to your heart's content.

So far it seems more focused on combat and exploration than puzzles. Since I hate dance of death and puzzles, I'd recommend it over Grimrock for sure.
 
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V_K

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Nov 3, 2013
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at a Nowhere near you
How is character customization and skill/item differentiation?
ou need your typical Tank, Damage Dealer (physical), Healer, and Damage Dealer (magic) characters
And the game actually refers to them as such. I dunno, but for me it was a dealbreaker. IIRC the game is also quite full of dull humor.
Bottom line, better play 7 Mages instead - it has it's limitations (and its writing is quite crappy), but it's turn-based (and the combat system is actually pretty fun, if underutilized) and has much more interesting maps.
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
V_K,
in a world with a party composed of a tank, a healer and 2 damage dealers, how would you prefer them to explain their role ? (especially knowing the users looking for help might need to get familiar with the base jargon of the combat system)
 

V_K

Arcane
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at a Nowhere near you
The terms are not the problem - the system is. The terms just show how little thought/imagination went into designing it. You couldn't even put some effort into pretening that it's something more imaginative than it is - that's why it's a dealbreaker (but more of a last straw kind, really).
Sorry to be harsh, but that's how it is.
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
V_K,
ah ok, thanks for clarifying that ! :)

I won't deny the lack of imagination, however to my knowledge there are only 2 solo games featuring the thryptich + the threat system, and the other one is quite different from DG, so for people looking to play such combat system in a solo environment, DG is welcome...
 

anvi

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The game is ok but not great. I got to about level 15 or something earlier in the year and then started playing something else. Later levels there is no map, or there is one but it takes ages to find, and it becomes quite a chore fighting through big levels and having to keep your bearings. The combat is ok but not great. You don't dance around, you fight toe to toe. It is tuned very well so that each fight is a challenge and you have to do your routine well or you die. This makes all the bosses a really fun challenge, and they have unique mechanics too that you have to figure out, like saving your stun to hit it before he does some massive strike, or rushing across the room to click a fountain or whatever. They are good fights. But the majority of the game is exploring the levels and fighting trash mobs, and these are finely balanced too which for me just became a big chore. I don't want to have to spam out my exact same MMO routine 100 times one each level on some random skellies when I just want get to the next boss.

The mmo routine itself is ok but not much depth. Tank has a few taunts and whatnot, healer has a normal heal and some heal over time etc, dps have a few nukes. I would say the combat is better than any of the gold box games or anything from the 80s, but I still prefer the combat in Wizardry, Dragon Age, Drakensang, etc. If I really want a challenge, nothing really beats multiboxing an MMO.

The king of blobbers for me is LoG2 with a mod called Magic of Grimrock. It is amazing. Or it was before a bunch of codex retards whined about it being too hard and he started simplifying stuff. I am not sure how far he went with that, but hopefully it didn't ruin the whole thing because I loved it.

I respect this dev though for doing what he did in this game. I have wanted more MMO style combat in single player games and this is the first time I've seen it done. It is impressive for just one guy or a small team even, but I would rather play something 'bigger' in scale.
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
anvi,
you can turn on the permanent auto-mapping in Game Options -> Helpers if you don't like to feel lost in the dungeon, and you're very encouraged to activate the "Low Enemy Density" in the Game Options, which removes about half of the Common enemies, but not the Elites nor the Bosses ; you can enable this option at any time if you think there's too much combat ; loot and XP will be automatically adjusted so the game plays the same, except faster..! :)
 
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Martyr

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Jan 28, 2018
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Bavaria
maybe it is of interest to the dungeon crawling fanatic that this game is currently on sale both on steam and on Humble. the steam version is cheaper, but it is DRM free on Humble. picking it up now, together with Warbanners.
 

anvi

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anvi,
you can turn on the permanent auto-mapping in Game Options -> Helpers if you don't like to feel lost in the dungeon, and you're very encouraged to activate the "Low Enemy Density" in the Game Options, which removes about half of the Common enemies, but not the Elites nor the Bosses ; you can enable this option at any time if you think there's too much combat ; loot and XP will be automatically adjusted so the game plays the same, except faster..! :)
Thanks for this tips! I will turn mapping on now. I love the game and the low density option is really nice for me. The Elites/Bosses are a lot of fun.
 

Edmund Spenser

Educated
Joined
May 4, 2018
Messages
71
Just picked this up on a whim while it was on sale. Surprisingly great experience! I really enjoy the gameplay here and really don't have any serious complaints. I'll definitely be playing this more!

Cons:
- I feel too pidgeon-holed into making a specific party. There are a lot of cool class ideas (Duelist, Necromancer, etc), but the need for specific roles (and soft sub-roles like off-tank) makes the class list seem smaller than it looks.
- There should be a cloth Tank, and possibly non-cloth Healers. The reason this is a con is because of the way the game handles itemization: the game only drops what your characters can use, making parties with unified equipment a useful bonus. Also, personal preference, but after seeing the gameplay of Necromancer and Duelist, I think there's some clever design space opportunity here.
- It apes WoW really hard.
- Writing is garbage, but that's not why you're playing the game.

Pros:
- Gameplay is solid. Combat is fun. Puzzles and level design are pretty great too!
- Class design is great. Shared Talent Trees is clever. I just wish it would separate itself more from WoW in the future.
- Tons of difficulties but they seem sensible. I'm playing on Soldier as a first try and it's a little easy if anything.
- Itemization will never screw you.

I haven't had a better deal for $6 in a long time.
 

Shackleton

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
:necro:

Another /necro for this thread. Been playing this again to satisfy my itch for something interesting mechanically since the blandness of a certain recently released RPG and I forgot just how good it was. If you can't be arsed to read the entire thread, it's a dungeon crawler blobber in realm of Dungeon Master/ Grimrock, but with unique combat that's based on the typical MMO model of Tank/Healer/DPS and IS NOT STEP DANCING. It's perfect for those of you that like to theorycraft everything, as you have to work out the best sequence of abilities to use to manage aggro, healing and damage. It's RTWP, but this is the one blobber where it makes sense and don't start moaning about lack of turn-based until you've tried it.

Plenty of secrets, good mapping system, varied mobs and plenty of options to tailor it to your liking. Out of all the real time blobbers released in the last 5 years, this is the best one and the only one to really do something different with the combat to get away from step dancing.

ManuTOO , what are you up to these days? Your post launch support for this was amazing, I hope you're still making games.
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
@Shackleton ,

thanks for the praise ! :)

Actually, there's an option to auto-pause once the Global Cooldown is recharged (in Options -> Game Options -> Helpers), which gives a simultaneous-turn feel to the game, but it has the tendency to greatly lower the chance to do mistakes (same for all other auto-pauses), and thus it can make the combat uneventful and not much fun ; ie: we never have to use all our out-of-the-queue emergency abilities. So I'd advise to use it only for people who really can't stand the combat as it is and are not satisfied by slowing down a bit the game speed during combat (in Options -> Interface).

Currently, I'm working on my tennis games, which is taking considerably more time than hoped because I'm also the busy father of a young boy & now a newborn, which always brings more challenges than I expected... :P

I'm still thinking about doing a DG2 once I'm done with my tennis games, but at the current rhythm, the 1.0 release would likely be for the end of 2024...
 

Shackleton

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Currently, I'm working on my tennis games, which is taking considerably more time than hoped because I'm also the busy father of a young boy & now a newborn, which always brings more challenges than I expected... :P

I'm still thinking about doing a DG2 once I'm done with my tennis games, but at the current rhythm, the 1.0 release would likely be for the end of 2024...

Congrats on the new arrival ManuTOO , I can imagine how hard it is to find the time to design and code with two little 'uns!

I love the way you casually throw "working on my tennis games" in there as though it's the most mundane thing in the world! Tennis games?! After doing a superb DRPG like this you've moved into the realm of tennis? I mean, it's just quite a leap from your previous game and I find it hard to believe you think there's a massive, untapped market for a new tennis game.

Is it turn-based tennis in a dungeon, with poison spiky balls and various monsters with special powers as your opponent? Like Bloodbowl but with tennis? Holy shit I think I'm on to something, if you're not making it I'm pitching it to Tencent. :obviously:
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
If you are contemplating ideas for DG2, I would want to see the party size increased from four to six, more like Wizardry.

Someone suggested that a while ago on the Steam forum. The idea is pretty exciting, so I think I'd add it as an option (in an .ini file), but I would not build the game with it, as it'd be harder to design balance-wise, and gameplay-wise it might require too much clicking without doing some drastic rule changes.

Congrats on the new arrival ManuTOO , I can imagine how hard it is to find the time to design and code with two little 'uns!

I love the way you casually throw "working on my tennis games" in there as though it's the most mundane thing in the world! Tennis games?! After doing a superb DRPG like this you've moved into the realm of tennis? I mean, it's just quite a leap from your previous game and I find it hard to believe you think there's a massive, untapped market for a new tennis game.

Thanks..! :)

And actually, it's the other way around : DG was a break from my tennis games. I released the 1st one in 1996 (started to work on it in 1994), and I spent the majority of my dev life on them..! DG is actually my 1st non-tennis (relative) success... :P

I have to specify "tennis games", because if I write "other games", DG fans start to ask if it's more on the dungeon crawler side, or more on the tactical combat side, and when I answer it's actually about tennis, it leads to an awkward silence... :D
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Liked this one a lot, much more than Grimrock. Combat being WoW-inspired strangely felt pretty good. Bosses had a lot of fun mechanics that seemed to draw inspiration from WoW raid boss mechanics.
Only suggestion is to get a writer when you make a sequel.
 

Replicante

Educated
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
61
I really recommend this game, I'm having a blast playing it! Gotta play with automap and slow difficult encounters to 50% speed. Also very useful to read this guide for the basics https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1119258123
It does play like a mmorpg-esque single player crawl, I enjoy managing the aggro and such, it's a nice experience. Also loot abundance and checking your gear every level for upgrades, like ir ot leave it.
 

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