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Is D&D 5th Edition shit?

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
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2,043
:nocountryforshitposters:
Yeah,because it makes sense that you could kill a goddess with a shitty level7 spell. Most highest level enemies should have immunity to it or take damage,not die in one shot lol. Level scaling in D&D is truly retarded in my opinion,being seen as demigod at level 20 is retarded and boring shit. It would have been a lot better if all those demigods,great fiends and other deity like creatures,were way past the level cap of the player. That way they would have been more unique and interesting encounters,not "geee i just killed another ancient dragon,lets move on to the next". Also the whole levelilng doesn't seem powerful enough to be seen as achieving great power,most of that shit you getting a +1dam/tohit per few levels. So trough all the levelling you get like 10 to that shit and now you are seen as a demigod lol,that is like becoming twice as strong than normal human.

And yeah,i do agree,the 5e is even worst than that shit. D&D really had hit rock bottom with this stupid iteration. Having less levels really makes the power fantasy garbage feel even worst than before.
It make no sense because he used the character of a 2nd edition videogame to kill a 5e tabletop monster in his mind.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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It make no sense because he used the character of a 2nd edition videogame to kill a 5e tabletop monster in his mind.

The power scaling on 5e makes no sense either. Peasants with magical weapons can kill Tiamat. I an not joking.

Thats a consequence of getting rid of DR against X and immunity against magical weapons below +X. Together with streamlined AC it means that pure numbers of soldiers become much more potent than before.
Both removals make sense for the P&P, no Dm wants to calculate flat DR every turn on multiple attacls and immunity against magical weapons below +X is an incredibly annoying mechanic.

I just wished that they created some sort of mechanic that counterbalances that removal for higher beings. Maybe immunity against effects from beings below level/Cr 10 or something like that?
 

Elex

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It make no sense because he used the character of a 2nd edition videogame to kill a 5e tabletop monster in his mind.

The power scaling on 5e makes no sense either. Peasants with magical weapons can kill Tiamat. I an not joking.
In 5e magical weapon are not commons at all, and for sure paesant don’t have them under the bed.

Also you can’t kill tiamat just destroy the physical avatar
Discorporation.
When Tiamat drops to 0 hit points or dies, her body is destroyed but her essence travels back to her domain in the Nine Hells, and she is unable to take physical form for a time.
It’s not the same of killing a God like when Bhaal was killer.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,015
Pathfinder: Wrath
Wouldn't mind some kind of parallel advancement in addition to classes. Would certainly help with 5E's anemic scaling and customization.

One of 5E's problems is the power divide between specialists and non-specialists. As in, it's almost non-existent. Having proficiency in a skill only gives you a 10% advantage over those without proficiency. At least at the start. My last group had a high elf sage and a functionally retarded wood elf bagpiper (those are in terms of backgrounds, not classes, the high elf was a wizard, the wood elf a rogue) and it turned out the wood elf knew more about history and religion than the sage because the dice said so. I'm not advocating for increasing the bonus, but more having a malus when you aren't proficient in something. Maybe rolling with disadvantage.
 
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Cryomancer

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Both removals make sense for the P&P, no Dm wants to calculate flat DR every turn on multiple attacls and immunity against magical weapons below +X is an incredibly annoying mechanic.

Yep. You are right. 5e is not the best edition to play but is the best to DM. Many "rental DM" asks more to DM 2e, Pathfinder 1e/D&D 3.5e than 5e by this reason.

When i played 3.5e literally nobody in a group of 8 wanted to DM and we ended making a "DM queue", where each one DM a session. We let the players calculate this stuff. However, most creatures with DR tends to have 5 or 10 DR, which is not that hard to calculate. For necromancers and people who wanna create army of undeads, we had a homebrew rule that they are threated as a group, and other homebrew rules to speed up the combat. IE : 20 skeletons attacking a single enemy when they have each 40% chance to hit means that 40%"of then will hit and everyone will deal the average damage. The player calculate it, not the DM. We also played a session where everything, from players and monsters are "maximized" ie - deal the maximum damage. The combat was pretty fast.

s in, it's almost non-existent. Having proficiency in a skill only gives you a 10% advantage over those without proficiency. At least at the start.

Not only that, a lv 1 ranger and a lv 20 has only a difference on 6 AB. Yep. Someone who learned how to use a longbow yesterday and someone who reached the peak human capabilities with a longbow has only +30% chance of hitting a enemy. In total, a fully maximized ranger is only 40% more likely to hit than a UNproficient peasant.

Compare it to 2e, where you need 18 STR to use the strongest bows. And yes, longbows require a lot of STR to be used IRL. The idea of bows as a DEX weapon is one of the dumbest things ever.

Other rule that i miss is that different classes needs different XP to level up. I on BG2 had a lv 20 thief while my mage was around lv 13/14/15(don't remember exactly) and considering how magis is more complex, it makes sense. On 2e >
  • Lv 1 - Learned a "class"
  • LV 10 - "Journeirman"
  • LV 20 - The peak of that class
  • Above lv 20 = Broken mortal limitations.
You can see for eg, a necromancer. Start with a single life draining spell which is far weaker than any martial weapon, then learn how to make skull traps, learn how to animate the dead at lv 9 and at lv 15, become able to OHK his enemies(finger of death), he is now a very strong necromancer. at lv 20, he reached the peak of human capabilities and can cast the strongest spells which a human can cast.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,015
Pathfinder: Wrath
+30% to hit is huge in 5E because you have massive bonuses at the start (proficiency + attribute). It was actually an issue because the enemies were hitting every round and someone in my group inevitably went down in each encounter. I had to fudge rolls so they didn't die to an ambush at lvl 1. You have at least a +10 at lvl 20, which is immense considering AC is very hard to stack. A lvl 10 in 2E is not a journeyman, it's veteran status.

The problem is that everybody gets these bonuses, so a Wizard with gloves of ogre strength has as much damage and attack bonus with a quarterstaff as a non-two-hander Fighter with 18 Str.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Both removals make sense for the P&P, no Dm wants to calculate flat DR every turn on multiple attacls and immunity against magical weapons below +X is an incredibly annoying mechanic.

Yep. You are right. 5e is not the best edition to play but is the best to DM. Many "rental DM" asks more to DM 2e, Pathfinder 1e/D&D 3.5e than 5e by this reason.

When i played 3.5e literally nobody in a group of 8 wanted to DM and we ended making a "DM queue", where each one DM a session. We let the players calculate this stuff. However, most creatures with DR tends to have 5 or 10 DR, which is not that hard to calculate. For necromancers and people who wanna create army of undeads, we had a homebrew rule that they are threated as a group, and other homebrew rules to speed up the combat. IE : 20 skeletons attacking a single enemy when they have each 40% chance to hit means that 40%"of then will hit and everyone will deal the average damage. The player calculate it, not the DM. We also played a session where everything, from players and monsters are "maximized" ie - deal the maximum damage. The combat was pretty fast.

s in, it's almost non-existent. Having proficiency in a skill only gives you a 10% advantage over those without proficiency. At least at the start.

Not only that, a lv 1 ranger and a lv 20 has only a difference on 6 AB. Yep. Someone who learned how to use a longbow yesterday and someone who reached the peak human capabilities with a longbow has only +30% chance of hitting a enemy. In total, a fully maximized ranger is only 40% more likely to hit than a UNproficient peasant.

untrained peasant: +0 to hit
trained commoner: +2
slightly trained guard: +3
decently trained thug/spy: +4
fighter lvl 1 no archery +5
lvl 1 Ranger +7 (archery+3dex+2prof)
fighter lvl 20 +11
lvl 20 ranger +13 (archery+5dex+6prof)

bounded accuracy makes a lot of sense and is the best thing to happen to 5e.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
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Messages
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Yes, it's almost as if people who shit talk 5E in this thread haven't actually played it. Shocking.
Most of them have probably never played any edition of (A)D&D whatsoever, only CRPG adaptations.

(That's probably part of why 4E is so despised here, there's no 4E CRPG so very few have any actual experience with the system, only opinions based on hearsay)
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,015
Pathfinder: Wrath
4E was despised everywhere, though, considering it was the least popular edition in the PnP world too. It wasn't a good edition. Neverwinter the MMO is based on 4E.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
Wouldn't mind some kind of parallel advancement in addition to classes. Would certainly help with 5E's anemic scaling and customization.

One of 5E's problems is the power divide between specialists and non-specialists. As in, it's almost non-existent. Having proficiency in a skill only gives you a 10% advantage over those without proficiency. At least at the start. My last group had a high elf sage and a functionally retarded wood elf bagpiper (those are in terms of backgrounds, not classes, the high elf was a wizard, the wood elf a rogue) and it turned out the wood elf knew more about history and religion than the sage because the dice said so. I'm not advocating for increasing the bonus, but more having a malus when you aren't proficient in something. Maybe rolling with disadvantage.
+30% to hit is huge in 5E because you have massive bonuses at the start (proficiency + attribute). It was actually an issue because the enemies were hitting every round and someone in my group inevitably went down in each encounter. I had to fudge rolls so they didn't die to an ambush at lvl 1. You have at least a +10 at lvl 20, which is immense considering AC is very hard to stack. A lvl 10 in 2E is not a journeyman, it's veteran status.

The problem is that everybody gets these bonuses, so a Wizard with gloves of ogre strength has as much damage and attack bonus with a quarterstaff as a non-two-hander Fighter with 18 Str.
These two things are what make bards and barbarians good in 5e better than in older edition.

a bard can become the face/skillmonkey of the group and still be good as a support/caster

the barbarian is easy to hit but with resistance and a lot of HP, but at sone point everybody is easy to hit so the barbarian shine as the tank/meatshield
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
These two things are what make bards and barbarians good in 5e better than in older edition.

Are they tho? I must say that the Barb players at my table are usually pretty bad at the game (never carry back up ranged weapons, have awkward stat spreads, do not know when to use reckless attack and when not, shitty rage management, if they take GWM they do noit know when to go for the -5/+10, decision tree is just always run up to the closest enemy and whack them, if no enemy in range dash) so my opinion on Barbs is definitly skewed negative by that.
Still when I look at what the Barb gets I just always see a worse Fighter with more health and less AC.
 

Cryomancer

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4E was despised everywhere, though, considering it was the least popular edition in the PnP world too. It wasn't a good edition. Neverwinter the MMO is based on 4E.

Neverwinter mmo is the "AWFUL wow clone Nº654564684654, D&D edition". Has nothing to do with Neverwinter. Just like swtor is the "AWFUL wow clone NºNº654564684653, star wars edition" and has nothing in common with kotor 1/2. Is that hard to make a proper mmo which is a just a massive version of a amazing SP game? Dark Sun Online: Crimson Sands and Ultima Online are far better than this gear farming same rotation spam cooldown management boring games that fells more tedious than my old job adapting legacy codes to nowdays standards.

Other thing that i can't understand is Swen thinking that spell slots are so hard to the player understand. You attune 3 fireballs, so you can use 3 fireballs, higher level and higher INT/CHA/WIS allow you to attune more and make your spells hard to resist. Is not rocket science. Most 80s uses it and even console games uses it, from the PS1 suikuden to dark souls 1/2. Nobody criticized spell slots on both games. Now, why i magician needs to wait X seconds/turns after casting a fireball to cast it again, i NEVER understood. And is completely contra intuitive.

Most of them have probably never played any edition of (A)D&D whatsoever, only CRPG adaptations.

I don't play TTRPG from almost a decade. Play online 5e doesn't seems fun like in person play and 3.5e play.
 
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fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Yes, it's almost as if people who shit talk 5E in this thread haven't actually played it. Shocking.
Why should you play something that obviously shit???


I don't know why are people still on talking about 5e garbage. Anyone with at least half a brain would agree that anything after 3.5 is shit and 5e is the worst popamole garbage lol.
 

Cryomancer

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Yes, it's almost as if people who shit talk 5E in this thread haven't actually played it. Shocking.
Why should you play something that obviously shit???


I don't know why are people still on talking about 5e garbage. Anyone with at least half a brain would agree that anything after 3.5 is shit and 5e is the worst popamole garbage lol.

Strongly agree. Honestly, purchase 3 books, monster manual, player handbook, dm guide, find a group of D&D players, find a place and time where we all are we all are free to play, create a character sheet(...) to play a edition which is vastly inferior to 2e and 3.5e? Why? If I would have that high amount of work, I wanna play 2e/3.5e. 5e is not like neverwinter mmo which i can just download, see how shitty is and never touch again.

D&D 5e is the elder scrolls skyrim of the TT games. Extremely dumbed down. At least 5e is just dumbed down. 4e was a a TT wow clone.
 

Immortal

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Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Yes, it's almost as if people who shit talk 5E in this thread haven't actually played it. Shocking.
Most of them have probably never played any edition of (A)D&D whatsoever, only CRPG adaptations.

(That's probably part of why 4E is so despised here, there's no 4E CRPG so very few have any actual experience with the system, only opinions based on hearsay)

What about the Neverwinter MMO? :smug:

Although, I do get the feeling most people hated 4E just because they squatted over Forgotten Realms and pushed out a steamy shit over it.
 

Yosharian

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Grand Chien
These two things are what make bards and barbarians good in 5e better than in older edition.

Are they tho? I must say that the Barb players at my table are usually pretty bad at the game (never carry back up ranged weapons, have awkward stat spreads, do not know when to use reckless attack and when not, shitty rage management, if they take GWM they do noit know when to go for the -5/+10, decision tree is just always run up to the closest enemy and whack them, if no enemy in range dash) so my opinion on Barbs is definitly skewed negative by that.
Still when I look at what the Barb gets I just always see a worse Fighter with more health and less AC.
God Barb players are the worst
 

Gyor

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Dec 11, 2017
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armies of evil (gnolls, orcs, duergar, goblins, drow, ...)

Bet that's why they don't mention that press-release anywhere. Can't be seen going against the new and improved D&D.

Lol at these gypsies thinking the story is only "tadpole gives super powerzzz".

There's much more to it obviously but it won't be revealed untill the game is out, you dirty low IQ peasants.

This is just retarded, the "plot" by three evil gods is just the repeat of the fucking Tablets of Fate fiasco, that led to Bhaal and Myrkul getting dead in the first place. Have they already forgotten how Ao bitchslapped everyone?

The only thing they have in common is the dead three, this is a very different plot in a very different context.
 

Gyor

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4E was despised everywhere, though, considering it was the least popular edition in the PnP world too. It wasn't a good edition. Neverwinter the MMO is based on 4E.

Calling Nevergood online based on 4e rules is an insult to 4e, its a sickening bastardization of 4e rules.
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
  • Lv 1 - Learned a "class"
  • LV 10 - "Journeirman"
  • LV 20 - The peak of that class
  • Above lv 20 = Broken mortal limitations.

Thats a pretty stupid system. Level 1 should mean a "green" fighter reaching the age of 16/18 and setting on adventure after a lifetime of training. Reaching peak should take a couple of adventures, which means level 8-12. After than any progress should be meaningless. If anything, there sould be a decrease in fighting abilities.
The same goes for other classes. An intellectual "labourer" reaches his peak rather early and either stays on that level by constantly learning new stuff or degrades.
Epic progression levels is one of the most retarded things in rpg systems. Adventure should be determined by heroic deeds, not by herois stats.
 

Gyor

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Messages
731
Yes, it's almost as if people who shit talk 5E in this thread haven't actually played it. Shocking.
Most of them have probably never played any edition of (A)D&D whatsoever, only CRPG adaptations.

(That's probably part of why 4E is so despised here, there's no 4E CRPG so very few have any actual experience with the system, only opinions based on hearsay)

What about the Neverwinter MMO? :smug:

Although, I do get the feeling most people hated 4E just because they squatted over Forgotten Realms and pushed out a steamy shit over it.

That is a big part of it, although some of the additions were cool, Tymanther, High Imaskar, Akanul, but they blow up/Mangled alot of the coolest parts of FR, Mulhorand, Unther, Calimport, Halraau, Nimbral, Chult, Lantan, Laruien, ect...

The SCAG managed to put the piece back together, while keeping the best parts of what 4e did right, but it was too small to actually give enough basic details for it to be useful outside of the Swordcoast/North and maybe Cormyr.

Maybe if BG3 suceeds and the FR movie is a smashing success, WotC will get off their lazy arses and do a proper FRCG type book for 5e but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Gyor

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Messages
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You do realize that Larian started working on BG3 years before Wrath of the Righteous. Its a mutant tadpole with magitech enhancements, like a living Ioun Stone. What is so hard to understand?
That's actually... really fucking cool

I'm stealing this idea

The mutant tadpoles actually remind me more of the symbiots from Eberron, but more Mindflayer focused, and adaptable. A cross between Symbiots and Ioun Stones.

https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Symbiont
 

RPK

Scholar
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Apr 25, 2017
Messages
339
Would be a nightmare to get working though. Half a dozen possible versions of the game itself, and (with EE) 7 opperating systems. That's not even counting how everyone plays with mods.

and a completely different ruleset - 2e to 5e.
 
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