Phantasie series

[Werdna's Revenge]

It would be nice to see this get on GOG, but I wonder what version we'd actually see? emulated Atari ST or DOS?

 

[AArmanFV]

It would be nice to see this get on GOG, but I wonder what version we'd actually see? emulated Atari ST or DOS?

DOS surely.

I won the game, the last fight was tough and without a doubt the toughest of the entire game, and the dungeon itself drain resources before the battle. The first and second try I just bit the dust, but in the third try the Black Lord was absolutely retarded and only did physical attacks (Maybe because I casted confusion at some point), also my wizard survived the first turn so I could summon a Fire Elemental and then I spammed Fireflash 4 until I won. Some screenshots ＾＾:

Spoiler

My party before the final turn.

Zeus telling us we are good boys.

The game is very simplistic, but has a lot of personality (Like Questron but better).

This is the oldest game I played so far that tried to implement a skill system, is very primitive and I'm not sure if the skills increased by level ups or use (most likely the first option it seems). The game design as a whole is done correctly, the first dungeon serves very well as a tutorial, it shows everything you should expect (the secret walls are the best example of that), then the quest progression is very linear until you reach the castle of Lord Wood (before that I was pretty bored I have to admit). Combat was simple, but still enough strategical. The dungeons were good, I liked the logic puzzle in the bleebs dungeon and the "choice making" that was involved sometimes (Black Lord's stronghold), the only problem is that if you failed you had to restart the dungeon, instead of having to discover other way to get through the game (I can forgive it since Wasteland came 3 years after), also the rooms and corridors descriptions added more to the game (J.R. Trolkin Castle is a good example). Finally, like I said in a post before I couldn't experience the main feature of the game (exploration) for the reasons I explained.

I played the Apple II version, like octavius said the Atari ST one is the superior, it has better graphics and I think it's faster than the Apple, a recurring theme in SSI's middle 80s games when they still programmed in BASIC, it would be unplayable without accelerating the emulation.

Now I think I'm going to take a little hiatus from old RPGs.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I didn't even know this error existed, since I had an Atari XE (more advanced ST) back in the day. I have a special love for the old Phantasie trilogy. They were my gateway into SSI once I ran out of Ultima games.

 

[Harlin]

It would be nice to see this get on GOG, but I wonder what version we'd actually see? emulated Atari ST or DOS?

This is the oldest game I played so far that tried to implement a skill system, is very primitive and I'm not sure if the skills increased by level ups or use (most likely the first option it seems)

The manual doesn't explain this, but here's something on how skills go up:

Using skills is not relevant to how high they are. (This doesn't apply to MP, on the other hand, as you must cast spells in combat to raise max MP.)

Skills only go up when you gain a level, and cannot go down. How much is dependent on class, level, and the starting value of a stat (any stat change after character roll has no effect). Which stat depends on the skill:

• Strength: Attack
• Intelligence: Find Item, Spot Trap, Listen
• Dexterity: Parry, Disarm Trap, Pick Lock
• Constitution: Swim

Intelligence is thus important for a thief, which I think the manual makes no mention of.

The Dexterity bonus to Parry is kept separate from the Dexterity bonus to evasion (which means Dexterity helps you evade attacks in two separate ways, which stack).

I've only checked these on Apple ][ and IBM/DOS, which behave differently enough that I can't guarantee that Amiga, etc. behave the same. Also no guarantees this applies to the sequels (I'm sticking to analyzing the original for now).

 

[Harlin]

It turns out some basic combat mechanics differ substantially between the IBM version and the Apple ][ version.

The damage normal monster attacks inflict is 1/3 lower in the IBM version. And that's base damage; in practice it'll actually be even lower than that, because the formula for armor reduction is the same between versions.

This is balanced in the other direction by monster initiative rolls being fudged in the monsters' favor by ~30% (without this change, initiative would have actually worked the same for characters and monsters); and monster to-hit rolls being fudged in the monsters' favor by ~40%.

That's why you see monsters getting lots of hits, but only for 1 damage, in the IBM version. In the Apple ][ versions, you take fewer hits for more damage.

These are all clearly deliberate changes. I wonder what game design decisions led to that.

 

[DaveO]

I had fun with the first entry in the series, and I even posted a LP from the IBM version. I'll be getting the ST versions to play through 1 and 2(I never played 2).

 

[Luzur]

I cant even remember if i won the game, but i played it on C64 so its been awhile now.

 

[DaveO]

C'mon Luzur! You have those glorious pictures of your collection. Play it again, but get the ST version. I already will do a revisit to it on the ST version and post a new LP since the game is only about 10-20 hours worth.

 

[octavius]

If you're gonna play through the whole trilogy using the ST version check an older post of mine about some wonkiness when transfering from P2 to P3.
Also, only Elves, Dwarves and Gnomes are viable if you want to use the same characters throughout the entire trilogy. EDIT: due to the aging, which is more crippling than getting limbs cut off.

 

[Sinatar]

If you're playing the trilogy, whatever you do, do *not* import your party.

The game has a very punishing age mechanic, and about 2 or 3 hours into P2 your characters will all cross the old fart threshold and have their stats drop so low that they can't use their equipment anymore.

If you're on AtariST you can't reapply the brands you have to collect to beat the game, so if you swap out old characters for new ones after finding a brand, congrats you just softlocked yourself.

 

[DaveO]

I'll definitely do I and II(blind) for ST. I'm not 100% sure about III, but I'll consider it.

 

[DaveO]

Thanks for the mention of the character transfer bug! So definitely no P2 to P3, but at least P1 to P3 is an option.

 

[newtmonkey]

Does anyone have disk images (C64 or Atari ST) of Phantasie I and II without the wilderness explored? Every set I've tried is completely explored.

The reset utilities for C64/Atari ST only reset the dungeons and clear the character roster.

(I verified that the reset utility for the Apple II versions of PI/PII does indeed clear the wilderness areas.)

 

[octavius]

I have the following files that should work properly (after all I used the ST versions because all the Amiga versions were already explored):

Phantasie v2.0 (1985)(SSI)(Disk 1 of 2).st
Phantasie v2.0 (1985)(SSI)(Disk 2 of 2).st

Phantasie II v1.0 (1987)(SSI)[one disk].st
Phantasie II v1.0 (1987)(SSI)(Disk 2 of 2).st

Search for the following zip files:
Phantasie v2.0 (1985)(SSI)(Disk 1 of 2).zip
Phantasie v2.0 (1985)(SSI)(Disk 2 of 2).zip

phantasie_ii_v1_0_(1987)(ssi)(disk_1_of_2)-atarist.zip
phantasie_ii_v1_0_(1987)(ssi)(disk_2_of_2)-atarist.zip

 

[newtmonkey]

octavius

Those are actually the images I am using, but no luck. Even after running the "start a new game" utility, the wilderness is 100% visible (dungeons are set to unexplored, though).
I also tried a set of allegedly clean STX disk images, but I get the same result.
I might stick with the Apple II versions in this case.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...that's weird.
But Apple II may provide the most "authentic" experience.
With the ST version there was some problems with the victory screen in P2, I think, and something about character roster beeing of different sizes messing up character transfers.

If you are gonna use the same party throughout, it may be wise to stick to the long lived races, since age penalties will become a problem eventually.

 

[newtmonkey]

If you are gonna use the same party throughout, it may be wise to stick to the long lived races, since age penalties will become a problem eventually.

I am planning on sticking with dwarves and elves, maybe one gnome/thief.

 

[newtmonkey]

Finally had some time to do all the disk-related stuff to get a fresh copy of Phantasie 1, made a party, and have made my first steps into the game. I thought the UI might take some getting used to, but since it's all keyboard-based with intuitive keys for each action, it honestly made perfect sense right away. The Apple II version loads MUCH quicker than the C64 version (even with JiifyDOS installed in the latter), and also looks a lot better (maybe "less amateurish" is a better term...).

It's a tough start, but I have been slowly exploring the overworld while slowly upgrading my equipment. I was happy to see that even early on monsters drop equipment upgrades somewhat frequently, and the shops in town regularly stock new stuff. It seems like every expedition gets me something new.

Exploring the wilderness is a ton of fun, I really like slowly uncovering the map akin to playing a blobber.

There's some annoying stuff so far. Having to manually add each member even after restoring a savegame is annoying. The inability to individually equip/remove equipment is also annoying in how time-consuming it can be to replace even a single piece of equipment (you need to "distribute" your equipment which removes everything from everyone, then has you cycle automatically through each item you are holding to tell the game who gets what item). It's not a huge deal so far, though.

Goold old RPGs and brandy, truly a great night.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

So the issues are:
Aging
Fog of War already cleared
Transferring
Some xp/gold issues

Phantasie 1
Amiga, Apple II, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, Commodore 64, DOS, FM-7, MSX, PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X1

Phantasie 2
Apple II, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, Commodore 64, FM-7, MSX, PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X1

phantasie 3
Amiga, Apple II, Atari ST, Commodore 64, DOS, FM-7, MSX, PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X1, Sharp X68000

Phantasie 4
MSX, PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X68000

Lots of versions I never tried. C64, DOS I finished P1 but I tried AMIGA once. It seems like the files could be hacked to fix the values and fix the maps. Tbh, a complete remaster fixing bugs would be nice and option to select which ever graphical platform you wished. A NEW modern interface like what was done with bardstale might be cool.

I remember the printing option on c64 for a few things. I printed all the scrolls.

oh those battle screens:

hmmm... we neex far more screenshots and videos of each game and each version. Findjng each file for roms is tricky and brand new ones? Maybe impossible.

AppleII




DOS

 

[mediocrepoet]

This takes me back. Phantasie and Pool of Radiance were my favourite games on my C64 as a kid.
Never got to try Phantasie II, I tried Phantasie III on a DOS copy I picked up in a bargain bin at some point. I think it might've been alright except for all the limb removals. I think that game was prescient in foretelling the rise of the D&D combat wheelchair.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Atari 8-bit



C64




No good phantasie 3 c64 vids. Bleck

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Amiga:



AtariST

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

PC-88




Good lord that P4 music... (just as well have dancing pixies)

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Some extras:

 

[newtmonkey]

Phantasie
I put something like 8 hours over the last two days into this game (Apple II version), and had a blast. I am running a dwarf ranger, dwarf fighter, gnome thief, elf priest, elf priest, and elf wizard. I managed to completely explore the first dungeon and got everyone to level 3 or 4, but training is becoming very expensive. This game is really impressive so far. What other RPG released by 1985 provided such a complete RPG package, except for Ultima III/IV? The combat is pretty simple but the type of attack you select really does matter, and there are plenty of buff/debuff spells to play with. The dungeon design so far is a high point. Unique encounters, simple puzzles, dungeons that seem like actual places... I don't think you'd see something at this level of quality until Might and Magic Book One the following year, or Pool of Radiance in 1988.

The most surprising thing about this game is how modern it feels to play. Once you get over the few quirks, everything just makes complete sense. The Apple II version is 100% keyboard controlled, and the keys are context-sensitive, so at any point in the game you typically only have a maximum of five or so keys that are active (besides movement). The commands and their keys are always shown on-screen, but you quickly memorize them anyway because they make sense (no "(Z)tats" from Ultima, for instance).

I'm enjoying my time with this, but am also looking forward to going through the whole series. I know Phantasie II is basically more of the same, while Phantasie III has some major differences. I have an MSX2 in my collection, so I can play the Japan-only Phantasie IV eventually!