Decline have Denuvo and steam finally cracked the skill/will of pirates?

[Wirdschowerdn]

Strange. They haven't cracked RE3 yet but were able to crack RE7 one week later?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

New star wars game was cracked in 3 days.

 

[Vorark]

Curiously enough, it took old-timer Paradox to remove it from Monster Hunter Iceborne.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

It is very stupid to buy a game as soon as it is released. But it is also quite stupid to crack a game too soon. It's better to wait a few years, when the game is completely patched and with all the relevant DLCs, to crack it, re-pack it, and finally to deliver a finely crafted package.

 

[Ismaul]

It is very stupid to buy a game as soon as it is released. But it is also quite stupid to crack a game too soon. It's better to wait a few years, when the game is completely patched and with all the relevant DLCs, to crack it, re-pack it, and finally to deliver a finely crafted package.

I get your point, but by that time the price would've gone way down, and the novelty too. Way less incentive to crack and pirate.

Plus, for crackers, it used to be a race to show off skills, and not about archiving the best version.

 

[Jigawatt]

It is very stupid to buy a game as soon as it is released. But it is also quite stupid to crack a game too soon. It's better to wait a few years, when the game is completely patched and with all the relevant DLCs, to crack it, re-pack it, and finally to deliver a finely crafted package.

This is completely missing the motivation of the crackers. They don't do it as a service for the game playing public, they probably couldn't care at all if the crack itself never spread outside the 'scene' - they do it so they can prove they're smart/hardcore enough to be the first.

 

[FeelTheRads]

they probably couldn't care at all if the crack itself never spread outside the 'scene'

Yeah, there's a lot of talk about that, but then you have plenty of stories of crackers getting butthurt about this or that and threatening to never release any more cracks. If all they care about is being first then what's that about?

Also, I'm not sure how much it's about Denuvo or other protections methods getting better as it is about crackers getting worse and in general the cracker "culture" fading away.
The situation is even worse in other kinds of software than in games.

 

[Jigawatt]

Yeah, there's a lot of talk about that, but then you have plenty of stories of crackers getting butthurt about this or that and threatening to never release any more cracks. If all they care about is being first then what's that about?

Just guessing here, but I assume that it's because in some cases there's no way to create the cracked exe without also giving away the secret sauce as to how you did it - so if you want to use an exploit multiple times you don't want things widely available for inspection too soon.

But yeah I also agree that teams are getting worse, I actually expect it's because there's so much legal heat these days that the hassle isn't worth it when you can 'go legit' as a black hat and make shitloads of cash these days if you have that skillset.

 

[cretin]

It is very stupid to buy a game as soon as it is released. But it is also quite stupid to crack a game too soon. It's better to wait a few years, when the game is completely patched and with all the relevant DLCs, to crack it, re-pack it, and finally to deliver a finely crafted package.

This is completely missing the motivation of the crackers. They don't do it as a service for the game playing public, they probably couldn't care at all if the crack itself never spread outside the 'scene' - they do it so they can prove they're smart/hardcore enough to be the first.

i really really really doubt this. Oh i get that crackers want people to believe this, but I just don't. There is obviously a significant financial element to cracking that drives these groups. I dont know how they make money, but I'm sure they do, and a lot of it.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm not a broke asshole so my main concern here is game preservation. I think most people couldn't care less about DRM because they know if it ever comes down to it the community will keep the game running. If it never gets cracked though, that gets a lot harder obviously.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Whats even the point of playing a game if you can't buy it for cheap/free? Wouldn't it be better to read a book or smh?

 

[Nifft Batuff]

It is very stupid to buy a game as soon as it is released. But it is also quite stupid to crack a game too soon. It's better to wait a few years, when the game is completely patched and with all the relevant DLCs, to crack it, re-pack it, and finally to deliver a finely crafted package.

This is completely missing the motivation of the crackers. They don't do it as a service for the game playing public, they probably couldn't care at all if the crack itself never spread outside the 'scene' - they do it so they can prove they're smart/hardcore enough to be the first.

Indeed I was a bit sarcastic in my comment (note the "It's better to wait a few years") criticizing the broken state of the gaming industry, more than trying to explain the motivation of crackers.

It is true that one of the main drivel of the cracking scene is the narcisisstic aspect to be better/faster than the others. This was obvious in the past, in particular in the '80 and '90 (just watch to the messages in the ubiquitous crackintro that accompanied the cracked games), although this aspect seems faded in the years. I don't see these crackintros in modern games anymore, the only messages from crackers are in very uncospicuous txt files.

But I really don't know, maybe the real scene is happening behind closed doors and crackers don't want/need to make it public like in the past, although this seems contradictory to the narcissistic aspect. Maybe there are other channels other than the game itself. Furthermore I see that some crackers still crack and realese updates of games even long after the first version of the game has come out, even years after that.

The crack scene is surely quite diverse. I think that the OP suggestion, to look in other motivations, such as what kind of monetary retributions could exist, is a good one.

Maybe the reality is just trivial: modern games are just more difficult to crack. Furthermore the most popular games also require constant online presence to implement dumb monetary interactions to exploit the ego of rich kids, so that cracking them is pointless. Consider also this: the gaming industry is so bad and exploitative that could generate a motivational crisis even in the most cynical cracker.

 

[Achelexus]

I'm just waiting for Anno 1800.

 

[Tacgnol]

Yeah, there's a lot of talk about that, but then you have plenty of stories of crackers getting butthurt about this or that and threatening to never release any more cracks. If all they care about is being first then what's that about?

Just guessing here, but I assume that it's because in some cases there's no way to create the cracked exe without also giving away the secret sauce as to how you did it - so if you want to use an exploit multiple times you don't want things widely available for inspection too soon.

But yeah I also agree that teams are getting worse, I actually expect it's because there's so much legal heat these days that the hassle isn't worth it when you can 'go legit' as a black hat and make shitloads of cash these days if you have that skillset.

Denuvo hired a bunch of ex-RELOADED crackers. They've headhunted other crackers in the past as well, ex and current.

Most crackers are in it for the prestige and the challenge, I guess they consider it just as satisfying to fox other crackers as they do breaking copy protection.

 

[Azdul]

Curiously enough, it took old-timer Paradox to remove it from Monster Hunter Iceborne.

Publishers need to pay Denuvo subscription fee. So it is cheaper to remove it from re-release of old game, especially that it also fixes weird technical issues, and opens up possibility of GOG or Mac / Linux version.

 

[cretin]

Maybe the reality is just trivial: modern games are just more difficult to crack. Furthermore the most popular games also require constant online presence to implement dumb monetary interactions to exploit the ego of rich kids, so that cracking them is pointless. Consider also this: the gaming industry is so bad and exploitative that could generate a motivational crisis even in the most cynical cracker.

I really do think it is that simple. Some of the suggested explanations so far strike me as a little specious and self-serving (as in, self serving for failing crack groups). A kind of "oh well i (they) wasn't even really trying anyway". Hackers keep the cheat industry alive and well because it makes fuckloads of money, especially if you're some fucking third world ESLshit who would otherwise be lucky to earn 4USD/hr. I doubt the cracking scene is any different despite what they tell those of us who dont get to see behind the curtain. Over the years, I think there was also this arrogance that set in the gaming community, that it was pointless for companies to spend money on DRM because pirates always win, as if it were just so. If Denuvo can guarantee their customers that they will get a year, or more of near guaranteed no piracy, I think they are making a very strong case that they have beaten piracy and are worth the investment.

Obviously piracy is not going to end, ever, but it does look like the golden age is coming to a close.

 

[JarlFrank]

I don't even pirate anymore but god do I hate denuvo.

This kind of shit is terrible for legit customers.

 

[Volrath]

Isn't it basically because today's crackers consist mostly out of a bunch of millennials and zoomers who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag even if they tried?

 

[mk0]

Cracking is dumb, it just gives consumers a free pass from having to seriously address the issue of DRM. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bean counters figured out that paying pirates to crack your own DRM makes the practice easier for consumers to swallow.

 

[Tacgnol]

Isn't it basically because today's crackers consist mostly out of a bunch of millennials and zoomers who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag even if they tried?

Denuvo is genuinely a lot more complex than a lot of previous copy protections (hence why it potentially has such an impact on performance).

One of the things that was frequently complained about when it first hit was the lack of good 64 bit debuggers, which is why when good tooling came along a lot of previously "uncrackable" games all fell at once.

These days, I think the bigger issue is that most of the scene and p2p groups are extremely guarded about their techniques. Every new cracker that comes along and takes a stab at Denuvo has to essentially learn from scratch.

 

[Multidirectional]

Most effective means of turning me off from piracy of modern games is that they all seem to have 200GB file size. That and they are shit. But if they were 2GB of shit I might pirate to give it a try, but not 200GB.

Yes. If RDR2 was cracked I still wouldn't bother trying it, doesn't seem worth freeing up SSD space for it.

 

[Mexi]

Most effective means of turning me off from piracy of modern games is that they all seem to have 200GB file size. That and they are shit. But if they were 2GB of shit I might pirate to give it a try, but not 200GB.

Yes. If RDR2 was cracked I still wouldn't bother trying it, doesn't seem worth freeing up SSD space for it.

I didn't even like the first one. I finished it, but I got to the Zombies DLC, and I just couldn't do it anymore. Forced myself to finish it, but fuck me, it was boring. IDK WTF happened to Rockstar. GTA: San Andreas was the last GTA game I legit remember fucking loving. Beat it like 10 or more times. I could barely beat GTA: IV, and fuck me, I practically speed-ran through GTA: V. Hell, GTA: V was so bad, that I was actually wanting to play GTA: IV. Anyways, I can't imagine RDR2 is anything I'd like.

 

[Baron Dupek]

DLC faggotry such as skins and other vanity shit, all used to brag to your friends.

You're fucking with me. This is seriously a thing nowadays?

Where have you been the last six to ten years? There are people out there who just buy games to increase their xbox game score or platinum trophies.

One of my friends/work colleagues buys steam games with lots of achievements purely to increase his achievement ranking.

I tried to get him to buy KOTC for that reason, but Steam doesn't count KOTC towards achievement rankings because it has too many achievements and hasn't sold enough copies.

They still do that?
I head about that in early X360 era, though it was another way to increase replayablility for your favourite game.
But no - they buy shit games for that. I don't even.

And give him TOME already

 

[thesecret1]

Digging through the list of games with Denuvo is like digging through the toilet. What the hell – it's worse a lineup of games than one would be able to make if he tried.

 

[Tacgnol]

DLC faggotry such as skins and other vanity shit, all used to brag to your friends.

You're fucking with me. This is seriously a thing nowadays?

Where have you been the last six to ten years? There are people out there who just buy games to increase their xbox game score or platinum trophies.

One of my friends/work colleagues buys steam games with lots of achievements purely to increase his achievement ranking.

I tried to get him to buy KOTC for that reason, but Steam doesn't count KOTC towards achievement rankings because it has too many achievements and hasn't sold enough copies.

They still do that?
I head about that in early X360 era, though it was another way to increase replayablility for your favourite game.
But no - they buy shit games for that. I don't even.

And give him TOME already

TOME is one of his favourite games on Steam. Probably one of the few things he plays for more than just the achievements.

He'd probably actually like KOTC as despite his awful habits with achievement chasing he has pretty good taste on the rare occasion he plays games for entertainment. He also really likes 3.5/Pathfinder stuff.