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Is D&D 5th Edition shit?
- Thread starter Elex
- Start date
Cryomancer
Arcane
Tome of Battle seems interesting. Way better than every class with only autoattacks.
Caster/Martial balance in 5e is better than ever. They still feel significantly different while both being valuable assets to a party at all stages of the game.
Class wise 5e has no Tier 1 or Tier 4 as long as you stick to single classing. That is exactly the space you want to be at for a tabletop.
If anything I wish they went harder into the Battlemaster style classes. Choosing your special abilties after you have hit the attack is unique design space which casters can not fullfill due to spell slots. Never being able to miss a smite as a paladin or a tripping attack as a fighter is highly satisfying.
Shame fuckboy Swen thinks directly otherwise. Battlemaster maneuvers have all been moved before the attack because Larian thinks stopping the game on a hit to choose your special attack would feel bad and take you out of the flow of the game. The worst news about the game next to that dagger cheese (which they luckily changed) for me. Especially because it is so easy to circumvent.
Have your normal attack command always stop and ask for maneuvers, and have a different attack command which is mechanically identical, but never asks and has a faster animation. Bingo.
Class wise 5e has no Tier 1 or Tier 4 as long as you stick to single classing. That is exactly the space you want to be at for a tabletop.
If anything I wish they went harder into the Battlemaster style classes. Choosing your special abilties after you have hit the attack is unique design space which casters can not fullfill due to spell slots. Never being able to miss a smite as a paladin or a tripping attack as a fighter is highly satisfying.
Shame fuckboy Swen thinks directly otherwise. Battlemaster maneuvers have all been moved before the attack because Larian thinks stopping the game on a hit to choose your special attack would feel bad and take you out of the flow of the game. The worst news about the game next to that dagger cheese (which they luckily changed) for me. Especially because it is so easy to circumvent.
Have your normal attack command always stop and ask for maneuvers, and have a different attack command which is mechanically identical, but never asks and has a faster animation. Bingo.
Mechanically "the same as casters" is a bit too much. The ToB gives options to 3.5 melee characters, who otherwise are usually limited to move + attack, full attack or a single specific gimmick that the character was built around (charge, trip, bull rush...). These options are usable semi at-will and have two very strong limitations:
- they don't give world-changing powers (you can deal 100 damage with an attack, ignore a disabling condition or heal yourself, but you will never summon demons or change the weather);
- each character only knows a very limited subset of them (the Warblade, by level 20, only knows 13 maneuvers and 4 stances).
Among 3.5 rulebooks, the ToB is both the best (it's incredibly fun) and the worst (it's an experiment of 4th edition mechanics) one. Each discipline has a very distinct flavor, some of them are magical in nature and a couple of them are a bit too anime for my taste, but, all things considered, it truly is an amazing addition to the game. I'm still playing D&D 3.5 and, honestly, to me, it's the most important rulebook after the three cores. Sadly, it was published at the end of the edition's lifespan and they never had the chance to improve upon it. However, thanks to online forums there are a lot of homebrew disciplines and thanks to Paizo/Dreamscarred Press there's a lot of quality material in the Path of War Pathfinder rulebook.
Sreggin Etah I
Savant
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2019
- Messages
- 694
Wrong website friend, we discuss RPGs video games here, not tabletop RPGs. if you want to discuss TRPGs then you should go to RPGnet:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?forums/tabletop-roleplaying-open.3/
looks like codex anyway, so you should feel at home.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?forums/tabletop-roleplaying-open.3/
looks like codex anyway, so you should feel at home.
Sreggin Etah I
Savant
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2019
- Messages
- 694
Cryomancer
Arcane
One class that i really wish that Larian will add to BG3 is Psion....
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No buttons, literally unusable.
Cryomancer
Arcane
Apparently, Tome of Battle makes martial classes more akin to Warlocks, not to Wizards/Sorcerers IE - No "charges/slots" but unlimited usage of his power. Right?
Generic-Giant-Spider
Guest
The best part about 5e is when you modify the rules to resemble a better edition.
If Infinitron wants to keep moving topics from the BG3 thread every two weeks in a desperate attempt to stop it from reaching a thousand pages before even the Early Access begins, he might aswell put this in the Gazebo.
D&D 5E is not shit. It's a very good edition. The "bounded accuracy" concept does indeed favor the force with greater numbers, due to action economy. This edition made an effort to lift melee up and further restrain magic. While it succeeds in keeping your heroes from being untouchable, it imperils some of the most fearsome enemies of the game if the minion count isn't on their side. This edition hasn't been good about communicating that power levels are generally lower, and that epic adventures are now start closer to 15 than 20.
It provides a great deal of breathing room for minor homebrew tweaks, plays efficiently, and well. They've done a good job at harmonizing most of the best things about 2E and 3E. Don't be dissuaded by the naysayers. Even as a caster supremacist myself, while disappointed with getting toned down (again), it is overall the best edition of D&D yet.
It provides a great deal of breathing room for minor homebrew tweaks, plays efficiently, and well. They've done a good job at harmonizing most of the best things about 2E and 3E. Don't be dissuaded by the naysayers. Even as a caster supremacist myself, while disappointed with getting toned down (again), it is overall the best edition of D&D yet.
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- Joined
- May 27, 2011
- Messages
- 495
It's weird, I think you wrote "rules" but I keep hearing "Forgotten Realms timeline".
Cryomancer
Arcane
A adventure for D&D that can reach lv 100. Yep. I an not joking, The Throne of bloodstone ranges from lvs 18 to 100... Of course if that edition is ported to 5e, you will adventure into the "the city of Liches" at lv 2, fight orcus at lv 4 and destroy his wand at lv 5...
deuxhero
Arcane
Nah, 5E is worse than ever at this. Casters scale automaticly and get keep expotential growth and utility spells. Fighters get abilities that are only useful in combat, and are only as good at using weapons as a gish.
Cryomancer
Arcane
Like 4e did?
Every class
And again, not all casters are the wizard. Look to warlock on 5e, a very limited spell selection, a warlock with fiendish patron has only the eldritch blast against a fire immune mob, a lot of iconic high level wizard spells aren't available(except by few bloodlines, warlocks of some bloodlines can get wish - NOT SURE)
If they will remove everything cool that you can do with wizard, i honestly would rather NOT seeing a wizard in "6e" than saing a 4e wizard
Sykar
Arcane
No they cannot.
Not really. A wizard can be dropped by a warrior very quickly. 5E leaves very little in the way of magical defenses against weapon attacks. The concentration requirement only makes it worse. One of the best things a wizard can do defensively is to take a 1 dip into the fighter class so they can get the armor proficiencies. Casters (especially Bards) still have flexibility and utility far beyond fighters, but what would you expect between a class that fights with medieval weaponry and a class that reshapes reality? You need to adjust your expectations.
Note quite. You miss out on Heavy Armor proficiency. Clerics don't get this by default in 5E. Furthermore, you miss out on the +1 AC bonus while wearing armor from the Fighter's Defense fighting style. Taking a level in cleric also does nothing for your arcane spell attack/DC. The healing you could get out of 2 Level 1 spell slots isn't worth the trade off.
Disclaimer: While making the maths I came across a massive point. Tiamat has frightening presence range 240 feet. With this every low level mob will shoot at her with disadvantage, taking the hitrate from a modest 5% to an abysmal 0.25%. I retract my point, it is literally impossible for any medieval warforce of medium size or lower to kill Tiamat. I will leave the math standing because math is fun.
Statistically they can pretty easily. 5E has no crit confirm, so all of them have a 5% chance to hit on a ranged attack. Now which damage dice they use is massive for how long they take, so I will do the math for 1d4 throwing weapons, 1d6 shortbows and 1d8 Longbows.
On a throwing weapon she takes 6 damage average from a crit, shortbow 8 and Longbow 10. So you need 103, 77 or 62 hits to kill her first turn before her modest regeneration kicks in. Multiplied by 20 for rough math you need somewhere from 2000 to 1200 peasants to take her out in a single turn. You do not need as many +1 weapons, since the peasants can pick them up from the dead and pass around after shooting. If you rule cheese with ready action a few hundred bows should be enough, realistically every second one should be armed.
Now Tiamat will likely be faster than many of them and get a heavy first hit. The question is how many casualties she can cause in a single turn. She will defenitly wants to use Divine Word on her action to kill everything in a 30ft radius around her. Also she has two 90ft cones of death in her legendary actions. With this killing her with anything that is not a longbow becomes unrealistic, since only those have the necessary 150ft small range to engage with her in a wide enough formation to not get annihilated. Otherwise she could kite the army with her 120ft flight to death.
So with some clever lineup you probably only need double the men to kill her in a turn. Since everything except +1 Longbows is out of the question you need about 2000 peasants to volley her out of the sky. Factoring in the lower population size, this is the population of a moderate city in the high middle ages. But if you march to kill a god that number can be gathered.
What frightening presence changes is that she uses her first turn to inflict fear on the entire army and completely annihilate their chances to hit her. So no, peasants with magical weapons can not kill Tiamat.
Disagree on the argument but agree on fighter for different reasons. Half the cleric domains give you heavy armor proficiencies, this also applies when you take the domain as a dip. So you get heavy armor just fine. Also better spell slot progression is worth losing +1 AC, especially as most domains have fun toys they get at level 1. Healing Word is also an amazing spell a wizard would kill for.
Dipping fighter 1 is however much superior since it allows you to dip fighter 2 after level 5, enabling one of the most broken turns in the entire game with Fireball, Action Surge, Fireball. The rules only state no bonus action spell + action spell in a single turn, two action spells are kosher. Also you get the constitution save if you dip at level 1, which is much better than the Wisdom Save of Wizards and Clerics.
Elex
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2017
- Messages
- 2,043
when you multiclass to fighter you don't obtain heavy armor proficiency.
Cleric obtain heavy armor proficiency via domain: and cleric obtain the domain at lvl 1.
all classes add the same proficiency to attack DC based on the total level.
it's not 2 lvl 1 spell slot: spellslots are not separated in 5e, a lvl 9/1 wizard/ckleric have the same spellslots of a lvl 10 wizard.
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