Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Decline Why 4 party members?

turkishronin

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,730
Location
where the best is like the worst
I have noticed this trend in most new RPGs, even RPGs that are spiritual successors to old titles(like BG3) that they are abandoning the traditional party size of 6 in favor 4. I wonder what could be the reason for that? Will we witness RPGs with 3 or even 2 party members limit in the future?
 

OSK

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
8,004
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I imagine it makes the game easier to balance. Less variables. I know I was pissed when I found out the transition from Exile to Avernum cut the party members from 6 to 4.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,506
I have noticed this trend in most new RPGs, even RPGs that are spiritual successors to old titles(like BG3) that they are abandoning the traditional party size of 6 in favor 4. I wonder what could be the reason for that? Will we witness RPGs with 3 or even 2 party members limit in the future?
PnP tradition is about 4. And larger numbers can feel like a crowd.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
All of the above, simplify and sawyer the shit out of cRPG so only consoletards find them fun (and simple enough) to play.

That's where the big money is, selling to the dumb masses but to achieve that, you need to turn your game into some white sugar, aka sugar stripped of its colors and nutrients.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,003
Location
USSR
PnP tradition is about 4. And larger numbers can feel like a crowd.
That's only true, because >4 people will have to wait long enough for their turn to start some side conversation about random stuff, which distracts everyone, and will take longer for them to jump back into action when it actually is their turn.
Computers don't have this problem.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
I have noticed this trend in most new RPGs, even RPGs that are spiritual successors to old titles(like BG3) that they are abandoning the traditional party size of 6 in favor 4. I wonder what could be the reason for that? Will we witness RPGs with 3 or even 2 party members limit in the future?
PnP tradition is about 4. And larger numbers can feel like a crowd.
fuck pnp tradition. pnp tradition is based on how many of your friends didn't get stoned on friday and can come to flat sit table n play.

you want a more complicated party than fighter rogue mage cleric in a computer combat rpg.

blobbers had and can have more than 8+ and they're correct. wargames with hexes can have 12+ units and mercenaries and summons.
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
Patron
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
1,871,807
Location
On Patroll
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
But really it's about the 4 complementary roles or classes: fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard.

Or in other words: tank, explorer, healer / support, adaptable toolkit / wildcard. 4 gameplays.

Every extra member you add in the party is going to overlap with the others in some ways.
 
Last edited:

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
I assume it’s to allow the player to fill in the four traditional roles:
1 Warrior/Tank/Brawler
2 Thief/Specialist/Skill-Whore
3 Cleric/Healer/Medic
4 Wizard/Sorcerer/Tech-Specialist
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,759
PnP tradition is about 4. And larger numbers can feel like a crowd.
Dungeons & Dragons developed from miniatures wargaming, and the typical number of players in early campaigns could easily reach double digits. The earliest adventure modules published by TSR usually assumed around 9 or 10 player-characters, and, although expectations of party size soon diminished somewhat, the range of 6 to 8 remained typical through the late '80s. 4 would be considered the minimum party size for D&D to be playable.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,506
But really it's about the 4 complementary roles or classes: fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard.
L1 party, someone who can kill these rats. Someone who can curre rabbies from these rats, and heal wound when a rat was surprisingly lucky. Someone who can solve that puzzle. And someone who's head will not change into big ball full of tentacles when he'd read that scroll.

L18 party. I'm EVIL OVERLORD AND I GOT ARTEFACTS that allows me to cast spells like a wizard, yay.
Yay. I got a thief guild.
Yay, I become fucking lich.
Using all skills that he learned from other party members to hide from selfish people who discovered his attempt to make an organization that would help people, and also manage to earn enough money to be self sufficient was so successful that organization is RICH, and they can get all that stuff when they would frame him and take all that stuff. Hope his letters to his old party members actually arrive, and his old party members arrive in time to save him.

Yea it always ends like that. And then perhaps cataclysmic disaster on the whole country.
 

Dodo1610

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,155
Location
Germany
My guess is that fully fleshed out companions played a role and the bigger the party the bigger the pool of companions has to be. So devs reduce the party size so now they only needed to write 6-8 companions.
Also Coop even today you still can't plug in more than 4 controllers at the same time.
And obviously manging 6 characters in real-time is a pain that most devs just solved by using trash encounters that needed to no player input to win.
 
Last edited:

Metronome

Learned
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
277
But really it's about the 4 complementary roles or classes: fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard.

Or in other words: tank, explorer, healer / support, adaptable toolkit / wildcard. 4 gameplays.

Every extra member you add in the party is going to overlap with the others in some ways.
That reminds me of something I don't like in games with huge parties. You have space for every class and typically the developer expects you to use them all.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,562
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Imagine a 4-member party attempting to clear out the Tomb of Horrors.

Acererak would get so bored with no one ever actually reaching his room.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,523
There were plenty of games with 4 or even fewer party members in the 80s and 90s. M&M6, EotB, Stone Prophet, Lands of Lore, etc.
 

The Avatar

Pseudodragon Studios
Developer
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
336
Location
The United States of America
In turn-based, it makes the combat drag on too long, assuming you are also adding more enemies to balance the increase in party size. In real-time it becomes too much of a chaotic clusterfuck.

Also, the more party members you have, the longer is takes to go through the level up process and do equipment/inventory management on those party members.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom