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WotC 5e D&D Team are lazy fucks

Gyor

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Dec 11, 2017
Messages
731
5e had so much promise. It was the one ring of D&D editions, uniting players.

The PHB contents were great (although the physical quality was shit). The MM was great. The APs are very hit and miss, mostly miss.

But I didn't want to admit it to myself, but the D&D 5e Team are lazy fucks.

The first sign was Xanathar's Guide to Everything. 17 mother fucking pages of names!!! That is a half hours work, a full hour if your picky, not including art and layout, for 17 pages. You can find free name lists and random name generators that are not only free, but actually do a better job. Outside of the demihuman names, it's just RL culture names, seriously I could do this list in a half hour.

Mythic Odysseys of Theros has 2 new races, 2 new subclasses vs the dozen new subclasses in each Arkadia and Odyssey of the Dragonlords.

M Time of Foes Elf section is a huge mess, they added this Ravenqueen 2.0 to FR, with NO FUCKING EXPLAINATION WHY SHADAR KAI ARE NOW ELVES, WERE THIS NEW CREEPY BITCH COMES FROM, OR HOW IT FITS IN WITH PREEXISTING FR LORE.

The Gnomes/Halfling chapter ignores Luiren and the Ghostwise Halflings.

VGTM mix FR and general lore carelessly.

Almost every None AP/none setting book is suffering from identity crisis, because they release books so slowly that these books have to be Player options/DM options/Monster Manuals/and some other stuff all at the same time, when they could be seperate focused books. And on top of that some books like XGTE have pages of filler, because WotC will only publish UA material with 70% approval.

They keep having to use a guy that worked in the D&D Magic the Gathering department who already HAS A JOB, to write several of their releases for them (James Wyatt Ravica and Theros books).

They decided after making hundreds of novels, and buying a company TSR they made many more, that they aren't a novel publishing company, and cancelled the novel lines at both D&D and MtG sides, while only occasional contracting out novels to third party publishers which has caused big problem MtG side at least. Wasted fucking opportunity, seriously waiting till D&D is as popular as its ever been to cancel the profitable novel line, brain dead move.

And there best books from the last few years, Eberron: Rising From The Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, were largely written by third parties, Rich Baker and James Wyatt, for Eberron and Matt Mercier and his team for Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. And Matt Mercier basically apologized to the D&D community for his book coming out before all the traditional D&D setting books, so basically he had to apologize for something that wasn't his fault, that WotC is lazy as fuck.

WotC has been costing since right after the core books were published, core books aside, Matt Mercier/critical roll has more to do with D&D 5e's success then WotC has, and if Matt Mercierwas in charged you'd have your favourite setting book updated to 5e by now.

I don't watch critical role, so I'm not some fan boy saying this, I'm just seeing what is going on, and I read Matt Merciers post to irrate D&D fans aka his don't blame me because WotC is lazy letter.

And if that wasn't enough, they label all kinds of books including 5e books as racist because of woke fucking morons who wouldn't know real racism if it bite them in the ass. Worst yet they tell anyone sick of woke stupidity that they don't need our business. Fine fuck you WotC, I cancelled my order of Mythic Odysseys of Theros and you can blow me until you smarten the fuck up. So now they aren't just lazy they are arrogant too, ignoring how much of their success early on old school fans and now increasingly dumb luck. This isn't a boycott and I'm not trying to cancel WotC, just fed up with it's bullshit, and sub-par quality and woke cultist sack licking of WotC while rest of us can go fly a Kite.

If they want me back they can start producing quality products and stop shitting on fans.
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,320
There is definitely better 5e content published by third parties than wotc at this point.

I'd recommend looking at the kobold press stuff or fateforge if you want to still enjoy 5e if you haven't already.

But yeah I'm getting really tired of wotc just reprinting race rules and other nonsense to fill page count.

Best just to find anything wotc publishes elsewhere and rip out the pages you want and delete the rest.
 

Gyor

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Dec 11, 2017
Messages
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There is definitely better 5e content published by third parties than wotc at this point.

I'd recommend looking at the kobold press stuff or fateforge if you want to still enjoy 5e if you haven't already.

But yeah I'm getting really tired of wotc just reprinting race rules and other nonsense to fill page count.

Best just to find anything wotc publishes elsewhere and rip out the pages you want and delete the rest.

Oh shit I forgot how often they reprinted races my list. Like if you have to print a race more then once, put it in the PHB for fuck sakes, that is what the PHB is there for, it's a centralized book for Player rules that are commonly used, if a playable race keeps coming up in book after book, it's a sign it's required enough that it'll save a ton of space to just print in a PHB. I've never seen an edition reprint races so often.

Goblins have been printed in VGTM, E:RftLW, GGtR, and EGtW, and with more MtG setting undoubted being ported to 5e you know more goblin reprints are coming, goblins in MtG are like flies to shit, they are everywhere.

Goliaths have been in EEPG, VGTM, and the upcoming Icewind Dale book (errataed to have cold resistance).

Minotaurs have been printed MOoT and GGtR, and you know they will be reprinted for any Dragonlance book.

Centuars are printed in GGtR and MOoT.

Hobgoblins and Bugbears have been printed in VGTM, E:RftLW, and EGtW.

Genasi have been printed in EEPG, EGtW, and Princes of the Acolypse.

Aasimar have been printed in the DMG, VGTM, EGtW, and mentioned in the SCAG in a player context(Directs you to the DMG). Playable Aasimar also got mentioned, but not statted up in Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron.

Orcs VGTM, E: RftLW and EGtW, plus you know they are going to get reprinted again, to make up for their rules in VGtM.

Firbolgs, Tabaxi, Kenku, Lizardfolk printed in VGTM and EGtW.

Tortles printed in Torle package and EGtW. If they do Mystara that will be another Tortle reprinting.

Shifters, Kalastar, Warforged, and Changelings printed in both Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron and E: RftLW.

Tritons are in VGTM and MOoT.

That is Aasimar, Orcs, Genasi, Goliaths, Goblins, Bugbears, that have been printed in at least 3 official books (including the next AP) so far and there is no reason to believe any of these races won't be reprinted again. Just put the fucking things in the PHB if they are being functionally core races.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
If 4e never existed 5e would be the worst edition.

Matthew Mercer and his merry crew of shitty tabletop RP opened the floodgates to undesirables infesting the tabletop scene.

AD&D 2e and 3.5 or it's TRASH.
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
731
The only two concessions I give to the woke when it comes to D&D products being racist is 1) some depictions of Vistani and 2) the 4e realms where they nuked or mangled almost every none white nation on Faerun.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
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Frankly I think the 4E realms was just them being retarded, not racist. The "pale" red-headed Lantanna were also destroyed in that garbage for one.

That is Aasimar, Orcs, Genasi, Goliaths, Goblins, Bugbears, that have been printed in at least 3 official books (including the next AP) so far and there is no reason to believe any of these races won't be reprinted again. Just put the fucking things in the PHB if they are being functionally core races.

Or just release them as OGL content like they did 3.5 Psionics. Genasi and Golaiths are the only ones that aren't already in 3e's OGL stuff. Genasi are a natural extension of planetouched that already have an OGL clone in PF, so they really should just call them "fire planetouched" ect. like they did with the spell names. Golaiths are marginally more original, but 1: it's not like you can hold any legal ownership of naming a group of very large people "Golaiths" 2: They're essentially just the already OGL half-giants (not even the weird Dark Sun ones). Even ignoring that, the EE companion is free without being OGL.
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
731
Frankly I think the 4E realms was just them being retarded, not racist. The "pale" red-headed Lantanna were also destroyed in that garbage for one.

That is Aasimar, Orcs, Genasi, Goliaths, Goblins, Bugbears, that have been printed in at least 3 official books (including the next AP) so far and there is no reason to believe any of these races won't be reprinted again. Just put the fucking things in the PHB if they are being functionally core races.

Or just release them as OGL content like they did 3.5 Psionics. Genasi and Golaiths are the only ones that aren't already in 3e's OGL stuff. Genasi are a natural extension of planetouched that already have an OGL clone in PF, so they really should just call them "fire planetouched" ect. like they did with the spell names. Golaiths are marginally more original, but 1: it's not like you can hold any legal ownership of naming a group of very large people "Golaiths" 2: They're essentially just the already OGL half-giants (not even the weird Dark Sun ones). Even ignoring that, the EE companion is free without being OGL.

Interesting idea, but if they were willing to do that, they already would have. Still it'd be a good first step until a 5.5e PHB or 6e PHB. Its better to have these races right in the core PHB.
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,320
I don't think wotc will ever have the generosity to really expand the OGL again other than introductory stuff every new edition like they did with 5e.

Even if it's minor things like races they do not want to risk another pathfinder overtaking them in the market again with their own rule set like when 4e was killing them.

I remain grateful that the genie's long since been out of the bottle so they can't really roll back the OGL.

It gave birth to so many alternative products from straight true clones of original D&D via OSR to new inventive games. Basically giving Dungeons and Dragons since 3.5 and earlier into the communities hands for good.

Also, personal opinion 4e while remains the worst D&D game but a fun tactical superhero game. I'm glad they long since left but I kinda wish we could have seen a official 4.5 version before they killed it.

I suppose the 13th age rule set counts.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
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I'm very into cock and ball torture
I really like the base rules but they truly are lazy pieces of fuck.
After PHB and MM (DMG is a fucking waste of money since all it includes is either useless or very badly balanced. You are better off homebrewing all the time) they only released 2 books which might be considered genuine expansions. Xanathar and Volo.
And even those have a lot of filler bloat. I guess its the sheeples fault that buy all this shit like the Sword Coast Adventurers guide instead of pirating. So much money for so little rules. Obviously production cost is much higher for rules since you need to pay a bunch of monkeys to test and not just one to write, still we should get more of that. Its a travesty we still have only 12 classes. Psions have failed terribly.
 

deuxhero

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Thac0 We actually got the 13th, Artificer, in the Eberron book.

Also, personal opinion 4e while remains the worst D&D game but a fun tactical superhero game. I'm glad they long since left but I kinda wish we could have seen a official 4.5 version before they killed it.

It was called "Essentials". Apparently some suits thought the reason people hated 4E was too much customization, so they released gimped versions of existing classes with no options and expected people to buy them. I'm told this is what caused PF to outright outsold 4E.
 

Bara

Arcane
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Apr 2, 2018
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Oh god I forgot about 4e essentials now that was just true garbage decision making.
 

Alex

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I am actually playing 5e with a few friends now (absolutely not my decision). The system is not as awful as it looks, but it is still only the 4th best edition of AD&D...
 

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Even if it's minor things like races they do not want to risk another pathfinder overtaking them in the market again with their own rule set like when 4e was killing them.

There are even alternatives to Pathfinder popping up in response to Pathfinder 2e. OGL is probably one of Wizard's biggest regrets.
 

udm

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Make the Codex Great Again!
I suppose the 13th age rule set counts.

One of my favourite fantasy heartbreakers but I'm not hopeful for its future. Everyone behind it seems to be a woke SJW with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Then again I guess that applies to most of the content-creators of this hobby.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Thac0 We actually got the 13th, Artificer, in the Eberron book.

Also, personal opinion 4e while remains the worst D&D game but a fun tactical superhero game. I'm glad they long since left but I kinda wish we could have seen a official 4.5 version before they killed it.

It was called "Essentials". Apparently some suits thought the reason people hated 4E was too much customization, so they released gimped versions of existing classes with no options and expected people to buy them. I'm told this is what caused PF to outright outsold 4E.

Is the artificer finally in a position where it doesnt feel like it comes from a completely different game? I had the version where they can have a robot animal pet and choose to either use grenades or a railgun while being a 1/4 caster at my table. WOTC should not receive any credit for that, while it wasnt overpowered the rules were supreme garbage.
 

deuxhero

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Grenades don't belong your D&D games? Even the explosive in an iron shell variant predates plate armor, halberds and rapiers (at least the variants D&D art uses). Even shaped charges are old enough for Shakespeare to mention them in Hamlet. Saying golems don't belong is even sillier.
 

Elex

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Oct 17, 2017
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They are not lazy is a strategy that work and sell more books than ever.

this edition already outlived 4e, 3e and 3.5e and with better result.
 

Gyor

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Dec 11, 2017
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They are not lazy is a strategy that work and sell more books than ever.

this edition already outlived 4e, 3e and 3.5e and with better result.

90% of the work was done with the core books. Since then its streamers, the internet and pop culture that have been the driving force behind its increasing success. Their release rate has not a single fucking thing to do with it, as if the issue previous editions had faced were product bloat, then 5e would be fucked already because of third party releases and dmsguild, there is now probably more 5e products then any previous edition ever got, its just not mostly coming from WotC directly. Their early goal of uniting the fan base and ending the edition wars lead to a D&D that was both Newbie friendly and streamer friendly and DM friendly, right before social media exploded in influence. It was completely dumb luck that they released a rule set perfect for streaming right before streaming exploded. It was dumb luck that Stranger Things, Community, Big Bang Theory, ect... all explored D&D drawing attention to it.

You act like they've been a genius making smart moves all the time, when alot of this success fell into their fucking laps, they couldn't have forseen this.

On top of that D&D Beyond was the right partner to come along at the right time. And weirdly Corona has also boosted sales as folks have more time to play D&D.

And more luck is coming their way, if the Forgotten Realms block buster movie is a huge success, D&D sales are going to explode further.

And their market is so big now it can easily and profitably sustain a larger release rate and higher page counts.

And we are getting a 5.4e by November of this year, which means that this edition isn't going to last forever.

4e really lower the bar for how long an edition lasts.

And I'd argue that for the 3e era you should count Pathfinder 1e in that as it was the dominate form of D&D for a time.
 

Gyor

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They are not lazy is a strategy that work and sell more books than ever.

this edition already outlived 4e, 3e and 3.5e and with better result.

3e and 3.5e are not seperate editions, it was a modification of the 3e rules as was Pathfinder. I think of 3e as a protype, 3.5e are the basic product, and PF as the perfecting of 3e. So when you look at it like that, 3e era lasted alot longer then 5e has.
 

Morblot

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PF as the perfecting of 3e
It's really not. It started well enough and offered some genuinely good ideas (such as archetypes) but Paizo's incompetence really started to become more apparent with each subsequent release.
 

deuxhero

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I'd argue the it started well enough. From the playtest they showed a remarkable ability to ignore feedback and screw things that worked because of misplaced realism.

Crunch actually got quite a bit better towards the end in the soft-covers since the main staff were too busy working on Starfinder and that 2E disaster and they hired a bunch of freelancers who actually knew the system to make them. Fluff and hardcovers got even worse, since that was still written by the main people.
 

Bara

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Look up sixth edition game jam on itch.io if you want a laugh.

This was people trying to "reclaim" D&D during the drama when it was just #firemikemearls.

Some people actually tried to sell their submission on there and a lot of it was jut narrative game junk because coming up with an actual system is hard.

So they'll "move on" not like it and come back and try to force change to 5e. Which is fine in all honesty OSR and 1e - 3.5e rules will always be out there and accessible.
 

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