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Incline Revisiting Old Games (Again)

Falksi

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Even back when it came out, you could feel the jump in quality between Revenge of Shinobi and other games at the time. Like a good summer blockbuster compared to a TV movie.

One things for sure, it's REALLY highlighted just how much fun older games still are to this day. I've been playing other games alongside these such as Devil May Cry 5, Shadow of The Tomb Raider, Kingdom Come Deliverence etc. and I've genuinely found myself having may more fun with the older stuff on the whole.

One of the nice things about playing really old games is that they are a known quantity. The hype and hate phases are well over, and opinions on the games have leveled out so you can get a fairly accurate impression of what they are like and whether they are up your alley. As such, it's rarer to be disappointed compared to D1P's that are riding on hype and first impressions.

Aye, ROS's craftwork is astounding. Whatever games were on offer I just could not bring myself to swap it, even though I'd played it to death. This replay was utterly joyous as I hadn't touched it in years, and the blockbuster analogy is spot on.

Yeah, I never get hyped up any more and tend to have the mindset of "play game 2-5 years after release when bugs are ironed out". Which again is another element of older games which is brilliant, fuck all bugs & glitches.
 

Falksi

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As for a good suggestion, try Lufia 2 — it's one of the SNES jrpg gems but barely gets anywhere near as much recognition as e.g., FF6, chrono trigger, etc.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufia_II:_Rise_of_the_Sinistrals
suggestion on what to play next here

Cheers chap, funnily enough downloaded this a few days back :)

Gonna finish Phantasy Star 4 up, then I'll be playing Lufia 2 alongside George Duroy's recommendation of Golden Sun.

Will obviously keep chipping away at the quicker games in the meantime too.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Fun fact regarding Lufia 1 - when it was due to be released in North America they used a different cover image, both for the magazine adverts and for the official player's guide.

lufia2.gif


There's just one little problem... it's not their image to use. Say hello to Castle Master from 1990:

46835-castle-master-dos-front-cover.jpg


Obviously it was not used for any retail releases of the game, and makes any Lufia-related items with the image (like the full-size poster) somewhat of a collectible.
 

Falksi

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Fun fact regarding Lufia 1 - when it was due to be released in North America they used a different cover image, both for the magazine adverts and for the official player's guide.

lufia2.gif


There's just one little problem... it's not their image to use. Say hello to Castle Master from 1990:

46835-castle-master-dos-front-cover.jpg


Obviously it was not used for any retail releases of the game, and makes any Lufia-related items with the image (like the full-size poster) somewhat of a collectible.

I'm enjoying these fun facts Unkillable Cat, keep 'em coming! :salute:
 

Reality

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I quite like Phantasy Star 4, but I guess I like always having short resources and attrition. I think being short on secrets and exploration is a fair price to pay for the game keeping it's momentum and not stalling out.

For me the highlights are Macros - and then trying to have both a "mana" and a "spell slot" system at the same time.

I feel like that you can afford (once you have Rune at least) to burn through random encounters.. really the main people who are always short are the healers, but I think that adds to the dynamic of trying to get through the dungeon's full of random encounters to the bosses with as many resources as possible intact, and then having a tight damage race against an AoE every turn fight that will end you 1 turn after your healing runs out if you don't get them first.
 

Falksi

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I quite like Phantasy Star 4, but I guess I like always having short resources and attrition. I think being short on secrets and exploration is a fair price to pay for the game keeping it's momentum and not stalling out.

For me the highlights are Macros - and then trying to have both a "mana" and a "spell slot" system at the same time.

I feel like that you can afford (once you have Rune at least) to burn through random encounters.. really the main people who are always short are the healers, but I think that adds to the dynamic of trying to get through the dungeon's full of random encounters to the bosses with as many resources as possible intact, and then having a tight damage race against an AoE every turn fight that will end you 1 turn after your healing runs out if you don't get them first.

There certainly is some value in the combat, and the game as a whole. It's just that it's weaknesses are far bigger than I remember too.

Not a bad game at all, just one I was bitterly disappointed in after having it down as a timeless classic.
 
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Thac0

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Phantasy Star 4 - Megadrive

5638c184-3185-49da-aca6-c1eb6f18dd14.PNG


^The quest to cure Covid 19


Uggggh. This one's gonna be a bit painful.

PS4 is a game I would have undoubtedly had down as an all time classic before replaying it. I must have finished it at least a dozen times as a kid, and I was really excited about returning to it. I've even stated on here that it was a "classic" too.

So it wasn't anywhere near as good as I remember it. In fact it was way, way simpler & emptier than I remember too. Starting with the positives it's easy to see why I fell for it originally. It has three key pillars of strength that really carry it - great presentation, mint characters & a well told, fairly interesting story.

The cut-scenes are shit-hot, and appear often enough to be enjoyable, yet are spaced out enough to leave you wanting more. The story itself is fairly stock, but the finer details of the story, certain events, and the way it ties together the PS series' history are all bang on. And for me personally the characters are top notch too. 6 of the 10 available really appealed to me, and the dynamic between characters (cocky magician, old fart with bad humour, badass bitch who takes no shit etc.) works great too. These cornerstones of the game make it easy to see why I was so enamoured by it back in the day.

Now the combat's somewhere in the middle. It's turn based & interesting with a macro & combo system adding some depth, but the trouble is the way battles are setup often means a standard attack is the best way to deal with things. You're given a ton of techniques & specials, but half the time most are useless, or not as cost-effective as using an attack then healing. Battles are way to frequent too, and it becomes annoying fast. But with that said there is some fun to be had there, and it's a least a bit challenging. Also The music is a bit hit & miss, but when it hit it really hits, and the way it is used really conveys the atmosphere superbly at times.

But overall the game's just SO simple & shallow. Each village is essentially a hub for resting & upgrading weapons and little else, as it rarely deviates from a formulaic "travel-rest & upgrade-dungeon-travel-rest & upgrade-dungeon" formula, and ends up feeling repetitive & lacking. The absence of secrets & hidden extras in RPG areas really hurts it too. You look at FF4 & every village felt like it could hold something valuable, and they often did. With this the only thing to search for half the time is more dialogue, and searching generally yields few worthwhile rewards. There are side-quests, but they are few & far between, and not really that interesting anyway.

Overall it's actually reflective of modern "RPGs" which rely too heavily on cut-scenes to carry a formulaic, shallow set of RPG mechanics. I thought of PS4 as one of the reasons I was drawn into RPG's, but on reflection it's probably actually one of the reasons I sought out the likes of Baldur's Gate & PC gaming instead.

Not awful, but not all fun either, the excessive battle frequency ground me down, and overall it's certainly not the classic I thought it was. A good, well story with some great characters bogged down by formulaic, shallow game.

Gutted.

:3/5:


Apologies to Lilura for stating this was a classic in a previous thread.

Really interesting, only Phantasy Star games I played is the very first one and parts of the second one, although despite the excellent setting that is pretty much completely ripped from Frank Herberts Dune, the glacial pacing and the bad accelerate function of the port I played made me drop it very fast.
Does that make Phantasy Star 1 the best game in the series? From what I have heard Phantasy Star 3 was made by a different studio and is generally below the quality of the other titles.
 

Falksi

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Really interesting, only Phantasy Star games I played is the very first one and parts of the second one, although despite the excellent setting that is pretty much completely ripped from Frank Herberts Dune, the glacial pacing and the bad accelerate function of the port I played made me drop it very fast.
Does that make Phantasy Star 1 the best game in the series? From what I have heard Phantasy Star 3 was made by a different studio and is generally below the quality of the other titles.

Personally I think the whole series is just too dated now. Before playing 4 I played 1 through 3, but I couldn't stick with any of them long enough to give them a fair review.

This is where the PC is clearly head & shoulders ahead of consoles. Some PC RPGs of a similar era I can still enjoy, but returning to RPGs on consoles has been a kicker, with the only real stand out game I really enjoyed being Shining Force 2 (and boy did I enjoy it).

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SNES & recommended RPGs fair.

Back to Phantasy Star, number 3 has some great elements. Namely superb music, and a very original story too. But each village & area feel incredibly empty, and it suffers from similar complaints to PS4.

The foundation is there for a great future RPG. The lore & characters would stand the test of time, so it would be nice to see a sequel. If I can get the hang of RPG Maker I might attempt some form of one.
 
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Thac0

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Really interesting, only Phantasy Star games I played is the very first one and parts of the second one, although despite the excellent setting that is pretty much completely ripped from Frank Herberts Dune, the glacial pacing and the bad accelerate function of the port I played made me drop it very fast.
Does that make Phantasy Star 1 the best game in the series? From what I have heard Phantasy Star 3 was made by a different studio and is generally below the quality of the other titles.

Personally I think the whole series is just too dated now. Before playing 4 I played 1 through 3, but I couldn't stick with any of them long enough to give them a fair review.

This is where the PC is clearly head & shoulders ahead of consoles. Some PC RPGs of a similar era I can still enjoy, but returning to RPGs on consoles has been a kicker, with the only real stand out game I really enjoyed being Shining Force 2 (and boy did I enjoy it).

It'll be interesting to see how some of the SNES & recommended RPGs fair.

Back to Phantasy Star, number 3 has some great elements. Namely superb music, and a very original story too. But each village & area feel incredibly empty, and it suffers from similar complaints to PS4.

The foundation is there for a great future RPG. The lore & characters would stand the test of time, so it would be nice to see a sequel. If I can get the hang of RPG Maker I might attempt some form of one.

To me Phantasy Star 1 aged relatively well, especially if you use a guide liberally. The game is very obtuse about the directions it either does or does not give.
Biggest thing that makes those early RPGs age badly for me is shitty menus. Same reason I think Ultima 1-4 is very hard to play noawadays. Everything takes more clicks than it should do and its easy to mess up and make bad plays through missclicks.
 

Falksi

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Wonderboy 3: The Dragon's Trap - Master System/PS4

_1938003b.png



Now I've had this game firmly down as "The Best Master System Game of All Time" for years now. The Master System had some funky little numbers, but most are way behind the 16-bit era games, and returning to some is far harder work then the subsequent gen. So I was braced for impact again with this one. I also managed to pick up a copy of the Playstation 4 remastered version, so I thought I'd play them side by side for a bit of a laugh too.

Well, thankfully the game has aged very well and still retains it's title IMO. In fact it's actually quite incredible that this was a Master System game in the first place. When I played it on the PS4 with the updated aesthetics, it really didn't feel out of place as a more modern game from a later era.

The concept alone gives it a nice head start. Being cursed and playing through the game in various guises, each with their own strengths, keeps things very interesting. It plays great, with responsive controls & a good overall feel, but it's real strength is in it's level design & depth. We're talking some superb stuff here, plenty of secrets, plenty of clever layouts, a world which hold lots of interest & enough mystery to entice but leaves enough bread crumbs to avoid being obscure too. It manages to nail that balance which few games of that era, and even the modern era, have. There's no way you can complete this without rooting through some very secret secrets, and that makes the whole thing feel very satisfying. Also it's RPG elements genuinely add a fair bit to the game too, with Weapons, Armour & Items giving a great layer of added depth.

There are moments when it's old-school limitations show through the, the most notable being when level sections repeat themselves. It does start to feel somewhat samey, however the devs have been clever enough to vary the enemy setup with each one, and you can't help but admire that & their willingness to get around the restrictions they had. But with that said, you will hit an odd section or two where it feels like padding.

Overall it still holds up very, very strongly and has a unique something to it which still keeps it very fresh & fun today. Again, to think this was an 8-bit era game is quite mind blowing. Definitely worth playing.

:5/5:

So I think it's worth mentioning that the PS4 remake is bang on too. It changes very little from the original, and the graphical upgrade is fucking brilliant, really capturing the vibe of the game excellently. The audio upgrade is a bit hit and miss, with some tunes way better, others way to pushed into the background, but you have the option to switch from new to classic both visually & audibly as you choose at the push of a button, so anyone thinking of playing this again should consider the remake too. In general I'm not a fan of upgrades or remakes, but if they were all done as well as this I'd definitely be OK seeing a few more 8-Bit era games get the treatment.
 
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Falksi

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Still waiting for a Siege review :). I put you in my Let's Play, I am sure you can be nice with me.

Sorry chap, I'm way behind with stuff. I got caught up making my own game on RPG Maker and have barely played anything this past month. Took me an age to finish PS4 & Wonderboy 3.

On it now :)
 

Unkillable Cat

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I played the Dragon's Trap remake somewhat when it was first released, and while the remake is really good I had greater issues with the base game itself. And if your claim is true that this is the best game available on the Master System... well, I can scratch one system off my grand 'to-do' list. ;)
 

Falksi

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I played the Dragon's Trap remake somewhat when it was first released, and while the remake is really good I had greater issues with the base game itself. And if your claim is true that this is the best game available on the Master System... well, I can scratch one system off my grand 'to-do' list. ;)

Whilst I'm enjoying going back to the Master System for nostalgia purposes, there's no doubt that the games are a damn sight harder to take to than those of the 16-bit era.

There were parts when I was playing that I thought of it more as a 4/5, but ultimately I think it deserved the 5 simply for being so ambitious & unique.
 

Unkillable Cat

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As the smiley suggested I will obviously take a look at the SMS one day, but my expectations are now somewhat lowered.

The Alex Kidd-series look to be decent fun, so that's something to look forward to, at least.
 

Falksi

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Siege - PC

3103.jpg


An interesting one this, never played it before and never even heard of it. Released in 1992 I'd only flirted with the odd PC game back then, so stuff like this was for kids with rich parents. How nice to be able to play it now.

Straight off the bat Ramparts sprung to mind, a game which I quite liked back in the day. The style & premise really appealed to me, and I actually found myself thinking how some of the Total War games could have done with taking a leaf out of this game's book for town/city sieges in some areas. It certainly felt more satisfying than city sieges in the earlier Total War games to me.

Now the interface is something of a bind, and took some getting used to, but the solid gameplay drew me in after some effort (more than I like to put in I'll admit). However, just as I started to enjoy it, it became apparent just how it lacked in a few departments. For all the units you can obtain, the only real difference I found is whether they've ranged attacks or not, which felt a bit limp. I also found myself outflanking the enemy fairly easily too often, and the AI in general to be a bit "meh". The game's charm kept me playing, but as time drew on even that wore thin.

It just didn't quite deliver enough for me, but I can see why you like it ValeVelKal , it sadly didn't quite tickle my g-spot. One of those games which I think you already have to be connected to in order to really enjoy, but worth a look for fans of the genre.

:3/5:
 
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ValeVelKal

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Siege - PC

3103.jpg


An interesting one this, never played it before and never even heard of it. Released in 1992 I'd only flirted with the odd PC game back then, so stuff like this was for kids with rich parents. How nice to be able to play it now.

Straight of the bat Ramparts sprung to mind, a game which I quite liked back in the day. The style & premise really appealed to me, and I actually found myself thinking how some of the Total War games could have done with taking a leaf out of this game's book for town/city sieges in some areas. It certainly felt more satisfying than city sieges in the earlier Total War games to me.

Now the interface is something of a bind, and took some getting used to, but the solid gameplay drew me in after some effort (more than I like to put in I'll admit). However, just as I started to enjoy it, it became apparent just how it lacked in a few departments. For all the units you can obtain, the only real difference I found is whether they've ranged attacks or not, which felt a bit limp. I also found myself outflanking the enemy fairly easily too often, and the AI in general to be a bit "meh". The game's charm kept me playing, but as time drew on even that wore thin.

It just didn't quite deliver enough for me, but I can see why you like it ValeVelKal , it sadly didn't quite tickle my g-spot. One of those games which I think you already have to be connected to in order to really enjoy, but worth a look for fans of the genre.

:3/5:
Fair assessment of the game, and indeed I still love the game because it had absolutely 0 successor. AI is really not great as you said (it is better in the non-Fantasy reskin Walls of Rome, but as I said despite this I found Walls of Rome less viscerally fun). There are some real differences between units, but a large mass of units is just "random human/orc/dwarf" grunts, elite grunts and officers. Some races (minotaurs, trolls) hit like a truck though, some are really tough (dwarves obviously) or wimpy. They are hero units of various sorts and a small number of units with special skills (skeletons regenerates, spiders climb the walls, fire elementals burn siege equipment and are immune to fire attack), but they are rare in the base game. They added quite a few more interesting in the expansion.

In any case, thank you for having a look at the game !
 
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Falksi

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Golden Sun - GBA

3-GS0721.png


Been a while since I've reviewed as I've been making my own JRPG for some mates, and playing through Golden Sun as far as possible. Never played, or heard of it, until George Duroy requested it, so here it is.

Pacing. If there's one thing which I've learned overe the years, it's that music, films, and games rely heavily on pacing for me to fall for them. I constantly like to be stimulated im some way, and if a game is paced slowly or mundanely it's not for me. I'm one of the bellends who can't hack PST's walls of text, and much prefer the likes of BG2 & Tyranny. And that ladies and gents is why Golden Sun is not for me.

It just feels so empty & is so poorly paced, especially at the start where you run around a village spreading several screens, but with absolutely nothing of note or interest. "Isaac searches the jar......and finds fuck all". The whole game sets things up which discourage you exploring from the off, and that to me isn't what RPGs should be about. Now that'd be bearable if it also wasn't layered with cut scenes which take absolutely forever to get through, but it is. We're talking the JRPG version of Tarantino dialogue, but without the spice, charm, or pop culture. The story itself isn't particularly enthralling either. It has it's moments, but wading through all the filler to get to them took it out of me.

Combat & dungeons are it's saving grace. The Djinn system & puzzles are definitely where the game stimulates the most, and if you are gonna give the game a try I'd suggest rushing to these asap, esp at the start of the game. It also has some real nice aesthetics too, esp the combat sections.

I didn't like it, not for me. But I would say people try it before dismissing it as, if the game's pace is something you can cope with, there are elements to enjoy. But unfortunately I couldn't.

:2/5:
 
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Falksi

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You should give Albion(the '95 game) a try.
I couldn't finish it because the 3D areas gave me motion sickness but otherwise really liked it. Actually felt like a proto-Fallout in many ways but I rarely ever see it talked about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_(video_game)

I always remember wanting to play this, in fact I got my first PC in '96, and this was one of the games which motivated me to getting one. Ironically, I never picked it up and have neevr played it either.

I'll pop it on the list. I'm gonna do Bart's Nightmare, Lufia 2, & Ghost & Goblins as requested first though.

But before all that, I've been playing some 2 player stuff with the missus past few weeks too, so time for me to write them up too.
 

BLOBERT

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A conversion of a mediocre arcade game, Captain Commando

BRO IF YOU LIKE BEATEMUP GAMES CAPTAIN COMMANDO ARCADE IS GREAT

SKILL MATTERS
ROSTER WITH SIGNICANT DIFFERENCES
LARGE MOVE SET
VARIED ENEMIES

BRO CAPTAIN COMMANDO MIGHT BE THE PINNACLE OF THE ARCADE BEATEMUP SADLY RELEASED TOO LATE FOR WODESPREAD LOVE

ANYWAYS IM ON VACATION NEXT WEEK AND ILL BRING MY MODDED PSP MAYBE ILL JOIN YIY IN A FEW REVUEWS
 

Falksi

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A conversion of a mediocre arcade game, Captain Commando

BRO IF YOU LIKE BEATEMUP GAMES CAPTAIN COMMANDO ARCADE IS GREAT

SKILL MATTERS
ROSTER WITH SIGNICANT DIFFERENCES
LARGE MOVE SET
VARIED ENEMIES

BRO CAPTAIN COMMANDO MIGHT BE THE PINNACLE OF THE ARCADE BEATEMUP SADLY RELEASED TOO LATE FOR WODESPREAD LOVE

ANYWAYS IM ON VACATION NEXT WEEK AND ILL BRING MY MODDED PSP MAYBE ILL JOIN YIY IN A FEW REVUEWS

I reviewed that on page 4 of the thread mate, and wasn't a fan of it at all I'm afraid. It was the SNES version, so not sure how much that differs from the arcade, but I just found it so slow & cumbersome.

Feel free to counter-review it though. It's all about different POV's and opinions :)

I am hoping to start including arcade games as Grauken suggested. I've ordered one of the all-in-one arcade sticks with the games included, but I'm still waiting on it. I want to play them as originally intended - hooked up to a cabinet with the joystick too.
 
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Jrpgfan

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Captain Commando was great, there was nothing mediocre about it. I agree with everything Blobert said.
 

Falksi

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Captain Commando was great, there was nothing mediocre about it. I agree with everything Blobert said.

On the SNES I found it slow as fuck. Really cumbersome & lacklustre. Which version did you play?
 

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