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Video games to up their prices, consumers rejoice

DalekFlay

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Yes, but sometime around 2005 (just a rough number i am to lazy to make up a better estimate) it looked as if all games would end up behind launchers eventually. I am glad it didn't turn out like that.

I definitely thought every big developer would have their own launcher, leading Steam to just handle all the rest. It's very interesting it's turned out differently, with even EA going back to Steam. However, keep in mind the vast majority of these games still require a second account or launcher, so effectively they're just letting you add Steam DRM to their own.
 

Silly Germans

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Yes, but sometime around 2005 (just a rough number i am to lazy to make up a better estimate) it looked as if all games would end up behind launchers eventually. I am glad it didn't turn out like that.

I definitely thought every big developer would have their own launcher, leading Steam to just handle all the rest. It's very interesting it's turned out differently, with even EA going back to Steam. However, keep in mind the vast majority of these games still require a second account or launcher, so effectively they're just letting you add Steam DRM to their own.

I do count Steam to those launchers that i mentioned. EA going back to Steam is not something that i care for, all enforced launchers are in the same category. I was afraid that these mandatory launchers would become the standard for all games even niche titles, it is a good thing that i was wrong about that. Crowd funding to some degree, and Gog getting many newer games are a positive surprise. It remains to be seen if that is just a short relief or if DRM free releases remain a thing in the future. For now i would say it doesn't look too bad. But of course it could take a turn for the worse if CD Project decides to make GOG Galaxy mandatory. This is something that worries me at the moment as they seem to be going for it. Then DRM free releases are probably dead again for a long time, exempt small indie games.
 

JarlFrank

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Most of the games I buy on Steam don't even have Steam's own DRM, you can copy the install folder to a different PC and play.
 

Silly Germans

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Most of the games I buy on Steam don't even have Steam's own DRM, you can copy the install folder to a different PC and play.
So ? Can you get these games without being forced to install and start Steam at least once ? If Steam offered the option to directly download these games without installing any unnecessary launcher software it would be a point and i wouldn't have a problem with Steam, but as it stands they don't. As you stated it is obviously not a technical problem since the games are DRM free. Steam simply does not provide that service presumably so you have to use and install the Steam Launcher. I don't think that Valve should be treated any differently as long as they don't provide the option to forgo their launcher. Especially in these cases, where it is obviously superfluous.
 

JarlFrank

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Most of the games I buy on Steam don't even have Steam's own DRM, you can copy the install folder to a different PC and play.

If "most" games you play on Steam allow that, you're not playing many AAA games.

I am indeed not playing many AAA games. I am mostly playing games made by 3 guys in their basement.

Fun fact: there exist more games made by 3 guys in their basement than AAA games.
 

DalekFlay

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I am indeed not playing many AAA games. I am mostly playing games made by 3 guys in their basement.

I play a lot of those games too, but I was talking about big publishers and AAA games. The idea that consumers are demanding DRM free more today relies on them doing it for mainstream stuff, does it not? Of course 90% of indie stuff comes to GOG if they want it, they need every sale they can get and can't afford Denuvo. Consumers starting to actually give a fuck about DRM when there's no direct inconvenience would be seen as having an impact on Assassin's Creed, not Dusk.
 

Silly Germans

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I am indeed not playing many AAA games. I am mostly playing games made by 3 guys in their basement.

I play a lot of those games too, but I was talking about big publishers and AAA games. The idea that consumers are demanding DRM free more today relies on them doing it for mainstream stuff, does it not? Of course 90% of indie stuff comes to GOG if they want it, they need every sale they can get and can't afford Denuvo. Consumers starting to actually give a fuck about DRM when there's no direct inconvenience would be seen as having an impact on Assassin's Creed, not Dusk.
Metro Exodus was released on GoG fairly quickly. This is another examples that speaks for a slight positive trend overall. It hasn't reached the biggest AAA games yet, i agree with you there, but overall it looks a lot better than in the past. Having to wait one year isn't much especially nowadays where most games gets released in a subpar state. It remains to be seen if this was a single random rare event or if more we are going to get more and more releases this way.
 

JarlFrank

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I am indeed not playing many AAA games. I am mostly playing games made by 3 guys in their basement.

I play a lot of those games too, but I was talking about big publishers and AAA games. The idea that consumers are demanding DRM free more today relies on them doing it for mainstream stuff, does it not? Of course 90% of indie stuff comes to GOG if they want it, they need every sale they can get and can't afford Denuvo. Consumers starting to actually give a fuck about DRM when there's no direct inconvenience would be seen as having an impact on Assassin's Creed, not Dusk.

My point is, the games I care about tend to be on the DRM free train. Even those indie games too niche to get accepted by GoG don't use Steam's in-built DRM. I can just copy the install folder and play the game on another PC.

The AAA industry can crash and burn for all I care. The people who make games they like for an audience of people who also like games of that subgenre are usually on the no DRM train. Age of Decadence has no DRM. Underrail has no DRM. Various indie strategy and tactics games, tower defense games, adventure games (like the ones by Wadjet Eye), etc have no DRM. Those are the games I care about and the devs of these have been on the no DRM (or, if they use DRM, it's something really easy to crack like Steam's in-built DRM that only requires the replacement of one DLL) train for over a decade. And that's not going to change, because these developers realize intrusive DRM is a bad thing that puts off potential customers in their niche.

Ubishit and their ilk can suck Denuvo's cock all they want, it will have no effect whatsoever on these small devs making the kinds of games I like.
 

Silly Germans

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I am indeed not playing many AAA games. I am mostly playing games made by 3 guys in their basement.

I play a lot of those games too, but I was talking about big publishers and AAA games. The idea that consumers are demanding DRM free more today relies on them doing it for mainstream stuff, does it not? Of course 90% of indie stuff comes to GOG if they want it, they need every sale they can get and can't afford Denuvo. Consumers starting to actually give a fuck about DRM when there's no direct inconvenience would be seen as having an impact on Assassin's Creed, not Dusk.

My point is, the games I care about tend to be on the DRM free train. Even those indie games too niche to get accepted by GoG don't use Steam's in-built DRM. I can just copy the install folder and play the game on another PC.

The AAA industry can crash and burn for all I care. The people who make games they like for an audience of people who also like games of that subgenre are usually on the no DRM train. Age of Decadence has no DRM. Underrail has no DRM. Various indie strategy and tactics games, tower defense games, adventure games (like the ones by Wadjet Eye), etc have no DRM. Those are the games I care about and the devs of these have been on the no DRM (or, if they use DRM, it's something really easy to crack like Steam's in-built DRM that only requires the replacement of one DLL) train for over a decade. And that's not going to change, because these developers realize intrusive DRM is a bad thing that puts off potential customers in their niche.

Ubishit and their ilk can suck Denuvo's cock all they want, it will have no effect whatsoever on these small devs making the kinds of games I like.

Why are you buying these games on Steam ? I understand it for multiplayer titles but all the titles that you mention are single player games that are also available on Gog and i think with no or only little delay between the releases and patches. Is it simple convenience, like having already a large library on steam and not wanting another account somewhere else or is it some other reason ? Or do you use the Linux tools from Steam ? Or am i misunderstanding your post ?

The games that you mention are all released on a DRM free platform and Steam. But your initial post didn't make it clear if you mean only titles like that or also titles that are only available on Steam and that do feature no copy protection. I would differentiate these cases. On one hand you a have a developer that released his game on a platform which is only usable via a launcher and on the other hand you have developers that give the user also a completely DRM free option. The first case is not a developer that i would call a proponent of copy protection / DRM free games. The second kind of developers are.
 

JarlFrank

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Why are you buying these games on Steam ? I understand it for multiplayer titles but all the titles that you mention are single player games that are also available on Gog and i think with no or only little delay between the releases and patches. Is it simple convenience, like having already a large library on steam and not wanting another account somewhere else or is it some other reason ? Or do you use the Linux tools from Steam ? Or am i misunderstanding your post ?

The games that you mention are all released on a DRM free platform and Steam. But your initial post didn't make it clear if you mean only titles like that or also titles that are only available on Steam and that do feature no copy protection. I would differentiate these cases. On one hand you a have a developer that released his game on a platform which is only usable via a launcher and on the other hand you have developers that give the user also a completely DRM free option. The first case is not a developer that i would call a proponent of copy protection / DRM free games. The second kind of developers are.

I got a huge Steam library and like gathering achievements, so I tend to buy on Steam. I have the launcher installed anyway, so as long as the game has no DRM and I can just make a backup of the install folder it's almost the same as having a GoG copy. Of course I also buy on GoG when a game isn't available on Steam, or when I like the game enough to give the dev money twice. I like GoG's installers, they're the best way of backing up your games on an external HDD.

There are plenty of games not available on GoG because it's a curated store, though. Sometimes it's not in the dev's hands whether a game comes out on GoG or not. All you can do is apply for being published by them and hope. Games that got rejected by GoG are Grimoire and Vigilantes, for example. In many cases it's not the developer's fault if the game isn't available on GoG. I own plenty of games that are only available on Steam due to its permissible publishing policy but are too niche and low production value for GoG - Titan Shield, The Qaedon Wars, Das Geisterschiff, Theseus: Journey to Athens, just to name a few.

There's also itch.io as an alternative for those games but that's a pretty low-profile store so you can't expect to make a lot of sales there.
 

DalekFlay

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The AAA industry can crash and burn for all I care. The people who make games they like for an audience of people who also like games of that subgenre are usually on the no DRM train. Age of Decadence has no DRM. Underrail has no DRM. Various indie strategy and tactics games, tower defense games, adventure games (like the ones by Wadjet Eye), etc have no DRM. Those are the games I care about and the devs of these have been on the no DRM (or, if they use DRM, it's something really easy to crack like Steam's in-built DRM that only requires the replacement of one DLL) train for over a decade. And that's not going to change, because these developers realize intrusive DRM is a bad thing that puts off potential customers in their niche.

These games "always being on the DRM free train" is exactly why this is all irrelevant to the points being made previously, but I'm glad I gave you an outlet to point out how absolutely not mainstream you are, you beautifully unique specimen.
 

JarlFrank

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Meh. It's not like I don't care about mainstram games at all, I do enjoy Ubishit open world games once in a while, but the heavy DRM approach is pretty much an AAA only thing. Most small and mid-sized devs don't use shit like Denuvo or any other always online DRM. Do Larian, Obsidian, inXile, Paradox use any of that draconian DRM? No. And those are the biggest devs and publishers in the genres the Codex cares about.

The point is, if your interests are remotely Codexian, most of the games aimed at you as the target audience are going to be either fully DRM-free or light enough on DRM that cracks are easy to make and readily available. It's the big cinematic AAA stuff that forces retarded anti-consumer DRM on you.
 

DalekFlay

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The point is, if your interests are remotely Codexian, most of the games aimed at you as the target audience are going to be either fully DRM-free or light enough on DRM that cracks are easy to make and readily available. It's the big cinematic AAA stuff that forces retarded anti-consumer DRM on you.

Witcher 3 is Codex's 15th best game of all time and is pretty much identical to the "Ubishit" style games you're talking about, but yes... I agree real DRM is mostly for big publisher stuff. If there's a growing anti-DRM movement though, which was the original discussion, I feel it would impact those games, not just the ones that were mostly DRM free already.
 

JarlFrank

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Witcher 3 is Codex's 15th best game of all time and is pretty much identical to the "Ubishit" style games you're talking about, but yes...
... it's also a game made by that company running a DRM-free game store, and releasing all of their games without DRM as a matter of personal pride and a selling point :D
 

DalekFlay

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... it's also a game made by that company running a DRM-free game store, and releasing all of their games without DRM as a matter of personal pride and a selling point :D

I brought up Witcher 3 because of your "Codexers don't play games like X" statement Jarl, not because of DRM.

I know you're a smart guy so I'll take some of the blame, but we're talking past one another in this thread. The point was there's no mainstream push against DRM, so whether indie games use DRM or whether Codexers play AAA games is all kind of irrelevant. Unless Ubisoft feels some kind of pressure to drop DRM, which they don't, then my original point stands.
 

StaticSpine

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Don't mind paying more for games I'm interested in -- if I have doubts about a particular game, I'll wait for a discount.

But I have little to no interest in most AAA titles out there. If anything, I hope this will allow smaller devs to set more reasonable prices for their games and get better chances of survival.

For example, I wouldn't mind if Underrail would cost $18 instead of $15, or Dungeon Rats would cost $12 instead of $9 if that means the developers will be able to afford a few more months of development on their next projects and deliver much better games.
This.

To support the devs, I buy all extras available, though I do not need them.

And another thing: games in Russia are underpriced. For example, if you check VD's reports, you'll see that sales numbers from RU region are huge, but the cash flow is not. And people got used to buying decent stuff cheaper than Big Macs.
 

Trojan_generic

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
... it's also a game made by that company running a DRM-free game store, and releasing all of their games without DRM as a matter of personal pride and a selling point :D

I brought up Witcher 3 because of your "Codexers don't play games like X" statement Jarl, not because of DRM.

I know you're a smart guy so I'll take some of the blame, but we're talking past one another in this thread. The point was there's no mainstream push against DRM, so whether indie games use DRM or whether Codexers play AAA games is all kind of irrelevant. Unless Ubisoft feels some kind of pressure to drop DRM, which they don't, then my original point stands.

Nah, Ubisoft pushes now UPlay+ which would give access to all their games for 15 EUR a month. That's 180 EUR per year, 2 or 3 games + their DLC. If I would be an Ubisoft owner, I would up the prices of the games so that the kids would be driven to my monthly subscription. A monthly subscription almost always pays better in the long term. Especially if it's difficult to cancel and you have a couple of titles that many people keep playing for years.
 

Trash Player

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I believe games have been dropping in price relative to inflation and buying power for a good while, at least in First World.
Still bad new, good thing I haven't been buyingpirating anything AA+ for a good while.
 

Raghar

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Folks when you compare a simple stuff like games from 30 years ago, and prices and inflation. Can you use stuff like "installed base"? And games at that time were mostly aimed to earn money by a simplistic stuff. (Thought some people did crazy and interesting stuff because of passion.)

While novadays games are more complex, the highest increase in costs were art assets. But the funny stuff is: Installed base increased MASSIVELY. So current games are in status, too many pigs wanna each eat from oversized feeder. But, there are too many pigs.

Obviously prices are going up. And because of Denuvo, piracy isn't the indirect check that was preventing companies to rise prices to the skies.
 

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