Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

HITMAN 3 - final chapter of the nu-Hitman trilogy - now available on Steam

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Anyone wanted first-person mode back? That would be PS VR exclusive!



(Supposedly coming to PC VR later.)

https://www.ioi.dk/hitman-vr/

Announcing HITMAN VR

We are excited to reveal that HITMAN 3 will launch with VR support! We’ve been working on this for a while and now we’re ready to share the first details of what to expect when you virtually step into Agent 47’s world. Take a look at HITMAN 3 in VR right now with our latest trailer:

HITMAN 3 will support PlayStation VR at launch in January 2021 – but it’s not only HITMAN 3 locations that are supported. Every location from the World of Assassination trilogy can be enjoyed in VR.

We’re talking more than 20+ locations across all three games that can be explored and experienced in an entirely new way. As a reminder, we revealed in the HITMAN 3 Announcement that it will be possible to ‘import’ locations that you own from the previous two HITMAN games into HITMAN 3. You’ll need to launch locations from HITMAN 3 to play them in VR. We’re working to finalize the specifics for how PSVR owners can enjoy HITMAN in VR, and we’ll have more details to share in the months ahead.

Whether you’re in the mood to dress as Helmut Kruger and walk the catwalk in Paris, infiltrate a bank vault in New York, or even if you just want to relax and listen to the waves gently crashing on the beaches of Sapienza – you can do it all in VR!

Playing in VR will literally change the way you play with a first-person perspective that lets you immerse yourself into the game world. Stand face-to-face with your targets, blend-in to a busy crowd to overhear conversations and interact with the game world using your hands. For example, imagine that you’ve picked up a frying pan and you sneak up on a guard. You can swing the frying pan in whatever angle you want to knock them out – and then use it to deflect bullets that are fired as you make your escape.

HITMAN VR will immerse you into the World of Assassination in a unique way and we can’t wait to see the creative ideas and playthroughs our creative community can come up with when they get their hands on the game in January next year. We’re already looking forward to sharing more details about our VR support for HITMAN 3!
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,196
How would people compare the amount of content in Hitman 2 Gold vs. Hitman Season 1 Gold? About the same?
 

IDtenT

Menace to sobriety!
Patron
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
14,365
Location
South Africa; My pronouns are: Banal/Shit/Boring
Divinity: Original Sin

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
Unfortunately it won't die. You'd be shocked to see how many people want VR if you read the forums.

And as we all know, anecdotal encounters with people on forums definitely represent the mainstream opinion.
They're a vocal minority and it seems more and more devs are listening to them and including VR in their games, especially after Half Life Alyx.
And you could read forums outside of this one to get an idea of how fast this VR crap spreads. Or perhaps you actually believe that it's gonna die one day? Just like consoles, right? How did that turn out?
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
VR sucks. It adds nothing to a game, except a change of perspective and the opportunity to flap your arms like an idiot while trying to play a game. All in the name of attaining immersion via 4k, VR whatever schizophrenic crutch they'll invent next for these comatose, braindead, mouth breathers. How did these monkeys play games until now? Immersion comes from the attention you pay to the game, from understanding the mechanics and the underlying rules. But wait, that actually requires that 2 neurons (God forbid to go any higher) to at least collaborate with one another. Judging by the fantastic specimens of today, well, call me a skeptic.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
They're a vocal minority and it seems more and more devs are listening to them and including VR in their games, especially after Half Life Alyx.
And you could read forums outside of this one to get an idea of how fast this VR crap spreads. Or perhaps you actually believe that it's gonna die one day? Just like consoles, right? How did that turn out?

I never thought consoles would die, at least until something equally pick up and play on a TV replaces them, so not sure what to say there. I also don't think VR will fail necessarily, I just think it will at least always be a side thing, because most people don't want to wear shit on their face during relaxation time. So it'll never take over gaming, it'll either die or be an "also" to gaming, if that makes sense. And no matter what happens, forum comments you happen to read don't really mean much. Sales do.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
That's 1 million * users active now with VR headsets on Steam due to Alyx. VR is here to stay.
* additional monthly active users using VR headsets, it was already at ~1.5 million in January, it grew close to 3 due to Alyx:
Monthly-Connected-number-of-headsets-april-2020.png


Also hasn't declined again since people got their Headsets now, although it's back down to the slower growth phase projection: https://www.roadtovr.com/steam-survey-vr-headset-growth-august-2020/
monthly-connected-vr-headsets-steam-percent-july-2020.png


And that's Steam alone, PSVR for some reason is way ahead with over 5 million VR users even though it has close to the worst hardware (aside from the panel itself) and Oculus Quest as a Standalone probably also dwarfs it or is close unfortunately, although Oculus doesn't release numbers.

VR sucks. It adds nothing to a game, except a change of perspective and the opportunity to flap your arms like an idiot while trying to play a game. All in the name of attaining immersion via 4k, VR whatever schizophrenic crutch they'll invent next for these comatose, braindead, mouth breathers. How did these monkeys play games until now? Immersion comes from the attention you pay to the game, from understanding the mechanics and the underlying rules. But wait, that actually requires that 2 neurons (God forbid to go any higher) to at least collaborate with one another. Judging by the fantastic specimens of today, well, call me a skeptic.
Don't worry about it, it'll reach Romania in 5-10 years too. The sad thing is it's obvious from these type of comments that the irrational "haters" have no idea what they are talking about, and they'd very likely change their mind or at the very least have a much more nuanced position shortly after putting one on their face and playing a few games with it for a day or two.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
So the numbers are even higher. So? Does it even matter at this point?
Now explain to me in detail what innovation does VR bring to the table, because I can throw retarded tags as well but I'm more interested in arguments.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Don't worry about it, it'll reach Romania in 5-10 years too. The sad thing is it's obvious from these type of comments that the irrational "haters" have no idea what they are talking about, and they'd very likely change their mind or at the very least have a much more nuanced position shortly after putting one on their face and playing a few games with it for a day or two.

This goes both ways, fans of things tend to dismiss legitimate downsides and issues that others have. A lot of people don't want to strap shit to their face in their leisure time, a lot of people get motion sick, a lot of people have astigmatism and get headaches and a lot of people hate motion controls or snap-to movement. Not to mention the many genres that don't work in VR. There's lots of reasons to not be interested, just as there are many reasons some would be super into it.
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,196
That's 1 million * users active now with VR headsets on Steam due to Alyx. VR is here to stay.
* additional monthly active users using VR headsets, it was already at ~1.5 million in January, it grew close to 3 due to Alyx:
Monthly-Connected-number-of-headsets-april-2020.png


Also hasn't declined again since people got their Headsets now, although it's back down to the slower growth phase projection: https://www.roadtovr.com/steam-survey-vr-headset-growth-august-2020/
monthly-connected-vr-headsets-steam-percent-july-2020.png
We need to flatten the curve.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
Now explain to me in detail what innovation does VR bring to the table, because I can throw retarded tags as well but I'm more interested in arguments.
For me it changes the prospect from playing a game that I might be slightly intrigued by or find mildly interesting to visiting and interacting with/in its world.

There's the immersion, interactivity, being able to see and interact with things in front of you to scale and in natural 3D and afaik even the brain perceives and saves you doing something in VR differently than playing a game on a screen. It's a feeling closer to you being somewhere, looking up or down and seeing something, being afraid of something etc. instead of artificial tension and you pressing a few buttons to accomplish something on a screen as an abstraction.

For instance with Hitman or the recent port of Operencia, it's been "been there, done that" with the first two to three titles or the Demo and similar respectively. I didn't particularly feel a desire to play any of the recent ones or return to them since it's "more of the same" similar to AssCreed or Far Cry, it simply gets old and repetitive after a while. But with VR and actually being able to explore and interact with the world more directly it's an entire different deal.

It feels kind of pointless to try and explain (close to trying to argue with someone that's seen a travel documentary about Italy or Switzerland and is of the opinion that he doesn't actually need to ever go there because of it, although obviously it's not quite at that level yet) when what you'd need to do is just put one on your head and try some good games for a weekend or so. What is the point in anyone trying to explain what looking up and seeing a huge Strider stepping over your head or playing a Horror game and feeling an entirely new, almost overbearing tension feels like that is entirely different to what it would be playing the same game on a monitor in front of you in your room? I went through attempts of it several times in the past though:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...tween-hl1-and-hl2.130792/page-22#post-6587955
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...tween-hl1-and-hl2.130792/page-20#post-6578788

For Simfags it should be obvious, it's what they've been trying to achieve for years, if not decades by sticking together 6+ screens over another, building custom chairs and screwing things like Joysticks and pedals onto them and using shit like TrackIR and similar finally realized competently:


VR sucks. It adds nothing to a game, except a change of perspective and the opportunity to flap your arms like an idiot while trying to play a game. All in the name of attaining immersion via 4k, VR whatever schizophrenic crutch they'll invent next for these comatose, braindead, mouth breathers. How did these monkeys play games until now? Immersion comes from the attention you pay to the game, from understanding the mechanics and the underlying rules. But wait, that actually requires that 2 neurons (God forbid to go any higher) to at least collaborate with one another. Judging by the fantastic specimens of today, well, call me a skeptic.
This for instance, VR has nothing to do with 4K, that's one of its biggest downsides and has been for a while, to get an effective resolution of a 1080p screen for a part of your view you actually need two 4K screens (one for each eye, since it's Pixels Per Degree that matter there with a really large Field of View). Early prototypes with 720p Screens tended to look closer to PlayStation 1 resolution-wise. Thankfully the industry long since moved past that with 1600p displays becoming commonplace, and we're getting to a point where 4K screens are becoming viable in VR. To have the effective resolution of a 4K screen you'd need closer to two 8K displays.

Aside from that it'd be difficult for me to even comprehend how someone could have such a hate-boner for people playing games at a larger resolution than themselves, that'll become Standard over the next 5-10 years like HD did before anyway, that he'd call it a "schizophrenic crutch for these comatose, braindead, mouth breathers" in the first place. What argument is there to be had there? I can just go back to my hypothesis that it's usually people from generally poorer countries like Bulgaria with PCs that wouldn't run anything close to modern games at playable framerates, let alone be ready for any technological novelties to even attempt to understand where the mindset of such irrational hatred in said people comes from in the first place. Furthermore, how would you know that "VR sucks", that "it adds nothing to a game" and the stereotypical claim of having to "flap your arms like an idiot" (or the equivalent of comparing it to Kinect) if you obviously haven't actually tried it?

If you actually cared, there's several topics talking about this, people's experiences, news and new developments for now close to a decade on this very board, you can peruse them at your convenience:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/oculus-rift.79590/
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/rift-vive-vr-general.109448/
 
Last edited:

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
You speak of novelty, of being in a game world, of interacting with the environment and feeling like you're there, a part of that world.
That contributes to the WoW factor, sure. It's impressive the first time, the second, the third, after that, it wears off. Or it should. Seems not.

But what about the mechanics, the gameplay? What does it add? Now you understand when I say that it's useless because there's no innovation on that front?
All these elements, VR, photorealistic graphics or very high resolution, story, voice acting, characters, life-like or highly detailed animations are things that are invoked as pros by reviewers as well as gamers when discussing a game. But these aspects are more prized in a movie, where there's no interaction, not in a videogame.
It's also why some games today that have a AAA production values are called interactive movies, because the focus is on what I mentioned above and less on the the gameplay side of things but with a high level of polish. These games also are very profitable and players who like these "games"also support the VR tech because they're easily impressed and they believe that immersion cannot be achieved without this technology.
I mean what's next: spraying water on you when you swim in-game or rains? Turning on 10 or 20 fans when you traverse a windy region in-game? Shaking your chair when the character experiences an earthquake in-game?
What happens if your character gets shot? Have someone hit you as well or hell, shoot you with blanks? All in the name of immersion. I understand that for some people immersion may come from overwhelming their senses in a virtual environment in order to impress or to shock. But it's not the only source and definitely not my preferred one.
VR is used successfully in training programs for various activities. But, in my opinion, it has no place in gaming except for those games that you play only to be amazed at the world or environment. All for the WoW factor.

For me, interaction via a monitor, keyboard and mouse is simply, enough. It's easy, direct and fast. I didn't find the idea of VR in games appealing back then when I first learned of it and I don't find it now either. Even after watching tens of videos, various games being played in VR, of different genres. I haven't seen any convincing argument that it revolutionizes gaming in any meaningful capacity.

That hatred you speak of stems from the fact that the people who support this stuff decide (knowingly or not) which direction the gaming industry as a whole, is going. And since gaming is a hobby of mine, seeing it being reduced to this, makes me think not so pleasant thoughts.

And you should try to recalibrate your opinions about other countries and cultures. You'd come out on top and be the better man for it.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
That contributes to the WoW factor, sure. It's impressive the first time, the second, the third, after that, it wears off. Or it should. Seems not.
The "WOW factor" is most prevalent when you experience it for the first few times, but the "wonder" of being in the world of Half Life or exploring some Sci-Fi world/strange planet in say Obduction or The Solus Project or looking up and seeing a dinosaur that appears to be 10x taller than you doesn't wear off even when the novelty of it does, at least for me.

But when you're speaking about the novelty wearing off after the first, second, third time. That's usually how I feel about game series like say Far Cry/AssCreed/Hitman etc. ("It's Far Cry, but this time it's in the Himalayas/Montana/the Prehistoric/Cuba" or "It's Assassin's Creed, but this time you're in the American Revolution/French Revolution/Victorian London/Ancient Egypt/Ancient Greece/Viking Invasion of Britain" or "It's Hitman, but this time you get to go to Dubai!"). Similar with Half Life, I was excited for Half Life: Alyx because it was a major VR Blockbuster and it's probably GOTY for me this year. If it was Half Life 3, now 16 years later and you're still Gordon hammering Headcrabs with your crowbar and solving physics puzzles with slightly prettier graphics, it might still have been interesting, but I don't think I could have drawn anywhere near the same level of enthusiasm about it.

But what about the mechanics, the gameplay? What does it add? Now you understand when I say that it's useless because there's no innovation on that front?
All these elements, VR, photorealistic graphics or very high resolution, story, voice acting, characters, life-like or highly detailed animations are things that are invoked as pros by reviewers as well as gamers when discussing a game. But these aspects are more prized in a movie, where there's no interaction, not in a videogame.
It's also why some games today that have a AAA production values are called interactive movies, because the focus is on what I mentioned above and less on the the gameplay side of things but with a high level of polish. These games also are very profitable and players who like these "games"also support the VR tech because they're easily impressed and they believe that immersion cannot be achieved without this technology.
You understand that you're posting in the thread of a AAA video game franchise about to get its 8th major installment (if you can call their late releases that), that would have had all of these things and production values whether it had a VR port or not? I don't expect them to reinvent the wheel because of it, nor do I see how it infringes on your enjoyment of the game or not.

I'm not sure what any of your rant has to do with VR in specific, although I do indeed also generally enjoy playing games rendered at "very high resolution", whether it was just released or from 1998 and do generally enjoy better graphics and more intricate level design, especially in very visual genres like shooters. Some of your points don't even make any sense or are in any way equivalent to the others. Like "characters" or "story", do you expect the game to not have characters or a story? Pretty sure "voice acting" was also something Hitman has always had.

As for innovation, mechanics and gameplay, what exactly do you expect on that front from the 8th major Hitman title (or from most Shooters in general)? For me, if it's gonna be another game in X game series, at least there's something to look forward to that's exciting by being able to personally explore the world with its AAA production values that they've built and directly interacting with objects, hitting someone over the head with them, hiding evidence or strangling/shooting someone in first person instead of pressing a button to do so for a change.

As for what VR would specifically change in a VR-only game, see for instance the very bottom bit here in regards to HL:Alyx: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...tween-hl1-and-hl2.130792/page-20#post-6578788

Aside from that, the VR games scene in the past few years has generally felt a lot like the PC gaming scene in the 90s, with new developers entering the fray, developers trying new things and mechanics, trying new takes on specific genres, experimenting with what works and releasing new titles or franchises that wouldn't otherwise have existed. It's also been near entirely politics-free so far I'd guess largely due to its size and perceived lack of consequence by people usually obsessed about that, although I'm sure all of that is bound to change if/when it grows much larger with similar problems to the mainstream gaming industry and 20+ titles in single franchises with close to no experimentation or trying something new.

For me, interaction via a monitor, keyboard and mouse is simply, enough. It's easy, direct and fast. I didn't find the idea of VR in games appealing back then when I first learned of it and I don't find it now either. Even after watching tens of videos, various games being played in VR, of different genres. I haven't seen any convincing argument that it revolutionizes gaming in any meaningful capacity.
You're not going to get an idea of what it is like to play something in VR from watching "tens of videos" about it, you'll just have to try it yourself if you want to sound less like someone that doesn't know WTF he is talking about.

That hatred you speak of stems from the fact that the people who support this stuff decide (knowingly or not) which direction the gaming industry as a whole, is going. And since gaming is a hobby of mine, seeing it being reduced to this, makes me think not so pleasant thoughts.
Well, you'll get over it. I'll happily spend my money to decide that I want more VR titles and ports and there's nothing you can do about it.

And you should try to recalibrate your opinions about other countries and cultures. You'd come out on top and be the better man for it.
I speak from a place of intimate knowledge about said places, I'm fine thanks for your concern.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
Well, talk about being an agent of decline, holy shit. You like went off a list or something. You checked everything.
You want them to improve the series? How about they start with everything they removed from BM. That'd be a good start.
The fact that some series are the same, and you exemplify with AC and FC, is no excuse to make changes for the sake of it. They could improve, add new mechanics, refine existing ones, add some more, you know, let their creativity shine. But no, you just want them to reinvent the wheel, quality be damned, because it's "boring".
Regarding the story, lore, characters, narrative aspects, they should be secondary. Gameplay and mechanical depth should be the focus of any videogame.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom