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The Maddest Modder of All Time?

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,218
Location
Bjørgvin
man, you people sure know a lot about mods for FO3/Oblivion/Skyrim

:timetoburn:

scribbling intensifies

My dream game used to be a big, open world where you play a single character in FPP.
Morrowind was a good effort, but the more I played it the more disgusted I was with the static, encyclopedic NPCs. When Oblivion, with its Radant AI and Faction system came along, I thought it was an incline, and since the level scaling was easy to mod I tried for quite some to time to mod Oblivion into my dream game.
But getting a stable game with so many mods turned out to be a pipe dream, and the draconian moderation of the Bethesda forums didn't help either. When one day some princess came stomping in on a nice but off-topic discussion and informed us that she "would allow it" I had enough.

But I learnt a lot about modding and modders.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,326
Location
Massachusettes
Whatever happened to that guy who did the extremely well-regarded Wolfendoom mods? Like Giskard, he (and his mother) became homeless but then his fortunes picked up when someone noticed his huge library of "I am an ACTOR!" youtube videos where he played dozens of characters in one-man shows filmed in his room, most of them in full drag (which he actually had a talent for in that late Jim Bailey kind of way) and gave him his own one-man theater show. He always seemed a bit touched.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,826
two words: diana mod

maxresdefault.jpg

That reminds me...
FUWSRQfDyGM.jpg



Demosfen
So many new stuff and.... no English translation. There was an update but no idea how good it is.

Drops in popularity on moddb was massive after that comment. Almost like e-thot loosing followers after they found out she have a boyfriend.
Like typical russian modder - stealing a lot of stuff without crediting original creators. That's the effect of real communism on human brian.
And of course massive, deflated ego as a cherry on the top.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,770
Wesp5 has worked on the unofficial Bloodlines patch for 15 years.

So, is it finished?

Actually I hope it finally is :)! At least 10.7 looks as stable and complete as I can possible make it and the details we were fixing lately are so minor most people will indeed not notice them. Which isn't due to my "autistic vision", but due to people reporting any small issue they can still find. As long as they do and I can fix them, I will ;). And sometimes other things break because Bloodlines is complex and hard to mod with no source and no official SDK.

As for other news, the "True Patch" is just a retconned version of a completely outdated version of my patch and the weird translation of the Deep Shadows games was made by the developers. My Unofficial Patches only made them appear in the English releases.

On the positive side, my work is harmless compared to the teams that made "The Babylon Project" out of "Freespace 2" or "The Dark Mod" out of "Doom 3". They basically made free standalone games that don't resemble the original games anymore and are great!
 
Last edited:

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I'm always surprised that people know the names of any modders.

Of course, in some case, they make sure that you have no choice...

DMUC.jpg
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
1,953
Location
Adelaide
Crazy Modders. Is trying to add proper skeletal animations to Deus Ex when the engine only supported vertex based animations a good one? because that's what HDTP tried to do. Thankfully it never got released because the engine blatantly couldn't handle it but I think that ones up there with the crazy stuff I've seen. It would've been cool if it had worked.
 

A horse of course

Guest
Wesp5 has worked on the unofficial Bloodlines patch for 15 years.

So, is it finished?

Actually I hope it finally is :)! At least 10.7 looks as stable and complete as I can possible make it and the details we were fixing lately are so minor most people will indeed not notice them. Which isn't due to my "autistic vision", but due to people reporting any small issue they can still find. As long as they do and I can fix them, I will ;). And sometimes other things break because Bloodlines is complex and hard to mod with no source and no official SDK.

As for other news, the "True Patch" is just a retconned version of a completely outdated version of my patch and the weird translation of the Deep Shadows games was made by the developers. My Unofficial Patches only made them appear in the English releases.

On the positive side, my work is harmless compared to the teams that made "The Babylon Project" out of "Freespace 2" or "The Dark Mod" out of "Doom 3". They basically made free standalone games that don't resemble the original games anymore and are great!

Ignore this lunatic. Drog already posted the definitive review of his Bloodlines """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""fix""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" here: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...on-in-the-rpg-modding-community.113173/page-1

If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended, use the Tessera patch, made by someone who cares more about staying faithful to the original experience.
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,802
Wesp5 has worked on the unofficial Bloodlines patch for 15 years.

So, is it finished?

Actually I hope it finally is :)! At least 10.7 looks as stable and complete as I can possible make it and the details we were fixing lately are so minor most people will indeed not notice them. Which isn't due to my "autistic vision", but due to people reporting any small issue they can still find. As long as they do and I can fix them, I will ;). And sometimes other things break because Bloodlines is complex and hard to mod with no source and no official SDK.

As for other news, the "True Patch" is just a retconned version of a completely outdated version of my patch and the weird translation of the Deep Shadows games was made by the developers. My Unofficial Patches only made them appear in the English releases.

On the positive side, my work is harmless compared to the teams that made "The Babylon Project" out of "Freespace 2" or "The Dark Mod" out of "Doom 3". They basically made free standalone games that don't resemble the original games anymore and are great!

Ignore this lunatic. Drog already posted the definitive review of his Bloodlines """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""fix""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" here: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...on-in-the-rpg-modding-community.113173/page-1

If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended, use the Tessera patch, made by someone who cares more about staying faithful to the original experience.

I played the vanilla game ages ago and have no interest to revisit it with either patch
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,770
If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended...

Yeah, Troika must have intended that Bloodlines was released unfinished and buggy. Or maybe not, as Tim Cain wrote this (http://books.google.com/books?id=lroZsP4zyIYC&pg=PA102):
"Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen." and "Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas."
 

Azdul

Magister
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
3,374
Location
Langley, Virginia
Ignore this lunatic. Drog already posted the definitive review of his Bloodlines """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""fix""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" here: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...on-in-the-rpg-modding-community.113173/page-1

We need a True Unofficial Patch by Drog.
No way in hell. This game's community is pretty emo and toxic, and well it's just not a very good game for me to invest so much time into it.
So, unofficial patch sucks, game sucks, community sucks, and it is not worth it to make alternative to "bad" unofficial patch. However complaining about it is worthwhile endeavour, that's what true connoisseurs should spend their time on, as a mission to educate the public.
 

A horse of course

Guest
If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended...

Yeah, Troika must have intended that Bloodlines was released unfinished and buggy. Or maybe not, as Tim Cain wrote this (http://books.google.com/books?id=lroZsP4zyIYC&pg=PA102):
"Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen." and "Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas."

Nice fanfic

v10.6 14.04.2020
-----
+Repaired broken melee of Ming and created new item gained message.
+Improved all cars and tutorial guard audio, thanks to endthewars.
+Fixed Frenzy to really use the boosted stats, thanks EntenSchreck.
+Adjusted firearms ammo cost and restored one for the basic patch.
+Restored Jeanette and Therese dialogue and many more unused lines.
.Made Heather throw away old pizza and not being visible as ghost.
+Fixed normal SWAT being biteable and Hallowbrook Atrium confusion.
.Made killing junkyard dog cost Humanity and Pisha meal disappear.
Corrected alternative way of hitmen's peace and minor file issues.
Removed two plus emails from basic and fixed other minor details.
Fixed Nines' camera view at observatory and Romero's combat stats.
Specific Crowbar tool created for Bloodlines, thanks to ZeqMacaw.
ZeqMacaw's and DDLullu's tools integrated in SDK, thanks Psycho-A.
Fixed bombguy's explosion radius and two shopping carts' physics.
Restored dispatching Dima for Malkavians and raised tutorial ammo.
Removed shortcut at museum and fixed guard dropping workroom key.
Fixed name of museum in computers and basic max flamethrower ammo.
Repaired "Bloodsucker Communion" name and Numina names and icons.
Fixed tutorial location continuity in downtown, thanks endthewars.
Restored sound to Vesuvius easter egg and made it easier to find.
Fixed exploit to get the werewolf blood and some dialogue details.
Corrected loader-linux script to work for bash, thanks to GaGGaG.
Fixed possible courier and warrens computer problems in Hollywood.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,770
If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended...

Yeah, Troika must have intended that Bloodlines was released unfinished and buggy. Or maybe not, as Tim Cain wrote this (http://books.google.com/books?id=lroZsP4zyIYC&pg=PA102):
"Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen." and "Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas."

Nice fanfic

No, just follow the link and get yourself a reading sample. If you can't here is the full section he wrote about Bloodlines:


Gamers at work
Chapter 6 | Tim Cain: Cofounder, Troika Games


Ramsay: Troika also had some trouble with release timing. How did Valve's
embargo on Vampire impact the company?

Cain: Well, the embargo caused several problems. First, while the game was
held until Half-Life 2 shipped, we were also not allowed to keep the title in
development. Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and
then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game,
especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let
that happen. They picked a version as the gold master for duplication, and
then they held that version close until the ship date. We fixed some bugs,
but they didn't want to pass new builds to quality assurance.

Second, while our game was being held, Valve continued to make improve-
ments to the Source engine — improvements we couldn't add to our game.
It was frustrating to play Half-Life 2 and see advancements in physics, mod-
eling, facial animation, and other features that our game did not have.

Finally, the embargo really demoralized the team. They had finished a game
that couldn't be shipped, or changed, or talked about. And when Vampire
was shipped, the game was compared unfavorably to the only other Source
game on the market. Needless to say, we lost some good people during that
time. They quit in frustration and went elsewhere.


Ramsay: Even if there was a need for the title to be published before Half-
Life 2, Valve made that impossible. Why did Activision freeze the project?

Cain: Just to be clear. I came over to the Vampire team after the first two
years of development, and my role was to provide programming leadership
and work on areas of the game code that needed immediate help, such as
creature artificial intelligence and file-packing issues. So, I never
interacted with Activision during development.

With that said, the Vampire game had been under development for three
years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had
taken three and half years to develop, and that was a simpler game made
almost a decade earlier — Activision had become impatient and wanted the
game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity,
we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-
of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many
bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas.


Ramsay: Can you give me some examples of these problems?

Cain: Some of the most egregious examples included the game crashing
when a Nosferatu player character finished a particular map. This was caused
by a bad map value in a script that teleported a Nosferatu to a different map
than other player characters because Nosferatu were not allowed to appear
in public places. The crash was discovered after the embargo, along with the
disheartening fact that no one in quality assurance at Activision had ever
tested the Nosferatu character.

We were also working on smoothing out the walking animations of charac-
ters during in-game cinematic sequences. The embargo occurred during the
middle of this process, which left a great many characters skating or stutter-
ing during those sequences. And the warrens near the end of the game
were barely populated with creatures when development was frozen. No
balancing or dialogue was added at all.

I don't have to restate how demoralizing these issues were to the team. All
of these problems were easily solvable with more time. But that time was
not available.


Ramsay: Was there any ill will toward Valve?

Cain: No, we weren't really angry with Valve. They made their deal with
Activision, and part of that deal was that any Source-based game had to be
shipped after their Half-Life 2. Valve had the luxury of pushing out their ship
date repeatedly — and they did — to ensure that their game was great. We
were hoping for the same luxury, but Activision didn't grant it.

Now Activision, on the other hand, did get a bit of our ire. When we dis-
covered that we could not ship before Valve, we never imagined that Activi-
sion would ship Vampire on the same day as Half-Life 2. For several reasons,
a much better idea would have been to ship Vampire a couple of months
later. It would have given us time to polish our game with a stable engine. It
would have given the consumer something else to buy that used the Source
engine after Half-Life 2. And a later release would also not have put us in di-
rect competition for consumer dollars during our important first few weeks
on store shelves, because we all knew that consumers were going to choose
Half-Life 2 over Vampire. And, really, was the cost of a few more months of
development really that much more than the years we had already spent on
the game? No. I may not be a businessman, but that seemed like a bad
choice on Activision’s part.


Ramsay: Sounds like a reasonable solution to me. Did Leonard or Jason
make these arguments to Activision?

Cain: Leonard did a lot of the interacting with Activision, and he did suggest
this course of action many times. As far as I knew, Activision either ignored
the suggestion or complained about how much time Vampire had already
taken. They really did not want to put any more money into the game than
they absolutely had to, but at the same time, they demanded triple-A quality.
It was quite schizophrenic.


Ramsay: In the end, this ordeal brought about the collapse of Troika? What
happened after Vampire shipped?

Cain: Leonard, Jason, and I went looking for a new contract even before
Vampire shipped, since we were done a few months before. Leonard pur-
sued Fallout 3, which ultimately went to Bethesda, who outbid us.
 

A horse of course

Guest
If you want to play Bloodlines the way the developers originally intended...

Yeah, Troika must have intended that Bloodlines was released unfinished and buggy. Or maybe not, as Tim Cain wrote this (http://books.google.com/books?id=lroZsP4zyIYC&pg=PA102):
"Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen." and "Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas."

Nice fanfic

No, just follow the link and get yourself a reading sample. If you can't here is the full section he wrote about Bloodlines:


Gamers at work
Chapter 6 | Tim Cain: Cofounder, Troika Games


Ramsay: Troika also had some trouble with release timing. How did Valve's
embargo on Vampire impact the company?

Cain: Well, the embargo caused several problems. First, while the game was
held until Half-Life 2 shipped, we were also not allowed to keep the title in
development. Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and
then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game,
especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let
that happen. They picked a version as the gold master for duplication, and
then they held that version close until the ship date. We fixed some bugs,
but they didn't want to pass new builds to quality assurance.

Second, while our game was being held, Valve continued to make improve-
ments to the Source engine — improvements we couldn't add to our game.
It was frustrating to play Half-Life 2 and see advancements in physics, mod-
eling, facial animation, and other features that our game did not have.

Finally, the embargo really demoralized the team. They had finished a game
that couldn't be shipped, or changed, or talked about. And when Vampire
was shipped, the game was compared unfavorably to the only other Source
game on the market. Needless to say, we lost some good people during that
time. They quit in frustration and went elsewhere.


Ramsay: Even if there was a need for the title to be published before Half-
Life 2, Valve made that impossible. Why did Activision freeze the project?

Cain: Just to be clear. I came over to the Vampire team after the first two
years of development, and my role was to provide programming leadership
and work on areas of the game code that needed immediate help, such as
creature artificial intelligence and file-packing issues. So, I never
interacted with Activision during development.

With that said, the Vampire game had been under development for three
years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had
taken three and half years to develop, and that was a simpler game made
almost a decade earlier — Activision had become impatient and wanted the
game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity,
we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-
of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many
bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas.


Ramsay: Can you give me some examples of these problems?

Cain: Some of the most egregious examples included the game crashing
when a Nosferatu player character finished a particular map. This was caused
by a bad map value in a script that teleported a Nosferatu to a different map
than other player characters because Nosferatu were not allowed to appear
in public places. The crash was discovered after the embargo, along with the
disheartening fact that no one in quality assurance at Activision had ever
tested the Nosferatu character.

We were also working on smoothing out the walking animations of charac-
ters during in-game cinematic sequences. The embargo occurred during the
middle of this process, which left a great many characters skating or stutter-
ing during those sequences. And the warrens near the end of the game
were barely populated with creatures when development was frozen. No
balancing or dialogue was added at all.

I don't have to restate how demoralizing these issues were to the team. All
of these problems were easily solvable with more time. But that time was
not available.


Ramsay: Was there any ill will toward Valve?

Cain: No, we weren't really angry with Valve. They made their deal with
Activision, and part of that deal was that any Source-based game had to be
shipped after their Half-Life 2. Valve had the luxury of pushing out their ship
date repeatedly — and they did — to ensure that their game was great. We
were hoping for the same luxury, but Activision didn't grant it.

Now Activision, on the other hand, did get a bit of our ire. When we dis-
covered that we could not ship before Valve, we never imagined that Activi-
sion would ship Vampire on the same day as Half-Life 2. For several reasons,
a much better idea would have been to ship Vampire a couple of months
later. It would have given us time to polish our game with a stable engine. It
would have given the consumer something else to buy that used the Source
engine after Half-Life 2. And a later release would also not have put us in di-
rect competition for consumer dollars during our important first few weeks
on store shelves, because we all knew that consumers were going to choose
Half-Life 2 over Vampire. And, really, was the cost of a few more months of
development really that much more than the years we had already spent on
the game? No. I may not be a businessman, but that seemed like a bad
choice on Activision’s part.


Ramsay: Sounds like a reasonable solution to me. Did Leonard or Jason
make these arguments to Activision?

Cain: Leonard did a lot of the interacting with Activision, and he did suggest
this course of action many times. As far as I knew, Activision either ignored
the suggestion or complained about how much time Vampire had already
taken. They really did not want to put any more money into the game than
they absolutely had to, but at the same time, they demanded triple-A quality.
It was quite schizophrenic.


Ramsay: In the end, this ordeal brought about the collapse of Troika? What
happened after Vampire shipped?

Cain: Leonard, Jason, and I went looking for a new contract even before
Vampire shipped, since we were done a few months before. Leonard pur-
sued Fallout 3, which ultimately went to Bethesda, who outbid us.
RFu1hdU.gif
 

jebsmoker

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
2,586
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In I helped put crap in Monomyth
Wesp.. your Xenus 2 translation still contains a lot of weird shit - namely, transliterated words (Russian slang words, to be exact) that don't exist in English and require some thought and effort to actually translate. Deep Shadows' translation is somewhat better, but there's a few missing strings for things like items or vehicles lol
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,770
Wesp.. your Xenus 2 translation still contains a lot of weird shit - namely, transliterated words (Russian slang words, to be exact) that don't exist in English and require some thought and effort to actually translate.

As I wrote above, this translation was already in the original game files. Some modder helped me made it visible and I occassionally corrected things that were obvious to me even as a non native speaker. I only went through quests and objects completely, the spoken lines are just too many to check :(!

Deep Shadows' translation is somewhat better, but there's a few missing strings for things like items or vehicles lol

This is the updated translation for the Steam release, but I haven't had the time to compare it to the old one yet.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,326
Location
Massachusettes
Wesp.. your Xenus 2 translation still contains a lot of weird shit - namely, transliterated words (Russian slang words, to be exact) that don't exist in English and require some thought and effort to actually translate. Deep Shadows' translation is somewhat better, but there's a few missing strings for things like items or vehicles lol

Interestingly enough, I just tried playing this (both with and without his patch) yesterday. Though I love the Far Cry-esque open world approach, it runs like absolute shit on my quad-core 4.0 GHz/GTX 1070 based rig at 1920x1080p with AA off and hangs when exiting forcing a Task Manager close. Do. Not. Want.
 

jebsmoker

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
2,586
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In I helped put crap in Monomyth
Wesp.. your Xenus 2 translation still contains a lot of weird shit - namely, transliterated words (Russian slang words, to be exact) that don't exist in English and require some thought and effort to actually translate. Deep Shadows' translation is somewhat better, but there's a few missing strings for things like items or vehicles lol

Interestingly enough, I just tried playing this (both with and without his patch) yesterday. Though I love the Far Cry-esque open world approach, it runs like absolute shit on my quad-core 4.0 GHz/GTX 1070 based rig at 1920x1080p with AA off and hangs when exiting forcing a Task Manager close. Do. Not. Want.

The 'Ultra' config in Xenus 2 is busted. Just run on 'High'
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,326
Location
Massachusettes
Wesp.. your Xenus 2 translation still contains a lot of weird shit - namely, transliterated words (Russian slang words, to be exact) that don't exist in English and require some thought and effort to actually translate. Deep Shadows' translation is somewhat better, but there's a few missing strings for things like items or vehicles lol

Interestingly enough, I just tried playing this (both with and without his patch) yesterday. Though I love the Far Cry-esque open world approach, it runs like absolute shit on my quad-core 4.0 GHz/GTX 1070 based rig at 1920x1080p with AA off and hangs when exiting forcing a Task Manager close. Do. Not. Want.

The 'Ultra' config in Xenus 2 is busted. Just run on 'High'

Wow, you're right. "Very High" detail preset is broken. I set it to "High" and it runs in full 60FPS and no hiccups/slowdown. Nice. Thanks for the tip. Is there anything else I should know about Xenus 2?
 

jebsmoker

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
2,586
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In I helped put crap in Monomyth
yeah it's complete 100 percent ukrainian slavjank so try to keep your expectations in check and don't be afraid to cheese the game. try the 'bunny hopping' tactic - you'll see what i mean
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,770
The 'Ultra' config in Xenus 2 is busted. Just run on 'High'

Interesting info! Do you know why? Maybe there is a way to fix it if I ever find the time to update the patch again.
 

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