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Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,378
Location
Itaca
I like peasant militia it is a a very hard trip in the early game but if properly managed it becomes very powerful by mid game, unfortunately those poor bastards do not fare that well in the late game, you need more high end equipment and the guys using it have mediocre stats. That out of the way peasant militia won't be a fabulous end game party but it is a fun ride, that cripple crossbow specialist is priceless, lol.

:thumbsup:
no
actually peasant militia is the strongest origin in the game for the purposes of theoretical maximum power by a long shot
some lowborn origins are very viable in late game comps and having such a large number of potential units on the field + in the reserve allows for unmatched tactical flexibility which can trivialise even the hardest encounters

I disagree, on the tactical flexibility and the faith you put in larger numbers.

Fielding 16 guys is going to leave you both without space to manoeuvre and the fact that they are mediocre compared to a better background brother of the same level means most of your guys will shoe-horned into non demanding roles -> tanks, ranged, two handers and 2nd line two handers. Actually you will have trouble finding good archers and melee two handers, those roles and the lack of space will have you playing basically as an undead phalanx with some ranged attack added in. Once brothers start specializing in a weapon type you will have the option to use ones or the others but the basic tactic won't change, you will form a line and exchange attacks with the enemy using your superior numbers and two lines of effective brothers to weather them down until they are no more, you will roll over the enemy line but be unable to breach it and go through to attack back-liners such as enemy archer, necros... This tactic is all well, but once you find yourself against end game, with heavy spike damage and/or aoe damage this tactic is going to become less and less useful:
Against Schrats your second liners will be the perfect target for their aoe
Against Lindwurms your superior numbers won't be applicable unless you put many brothers in the aoe
Against southerners your packed lines are the perfect target for bombs and handgoons
Against legendary locations where you usually have a singular enemy you need to take out asap you brother will have trouble opening a gap to reach him.

For all those things you need the best brothers who can tank and aoe mob alone or when it is the moment surround the monster and destroy it before it can attack back, bad luck with peasant militia.
But it is worse if you need to push forward to create a hole in the enemy line and push into it to reach strategic targets in the back of the enemy formation, the poor ranged brothers don't help at this either.

TLDR: Superior numbers are great mid game but by end game it's a liability in the form of more AOE damage received, also your line will be less manoeuvrable and tactically unflexible.
 

Teut Busnet

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
961
Codex Year of the Donut
I like peasant militia it is a a very hard trip in the early game but if properly managed it becomes very powerful by mid game, unfortunately those poor bastards do not fare that well in the late game, you need more high end equipment and the guys using it have mediocre stats. That out of the way peasant militia won't be a fabulous end game party but it is a fun ride, that cripple crossbow specialist is priceless, lol.

:thumbsup:
no
actually peasant militia is the strongest origin in the game for the purposes of theoretical maximum power by a long shot
some lowborn origins are very viable in late game comps and having such a large number of potential units on the field + in the reserve allows for unmatched tactical flexibility which can trivialise even the hardest encounters

I disagree, on the tactical flexibility and the faith you put in larger numbers.

Fielding 16 guys is going to leave you both without space to manoeuvre and the fact that they are mediocre compared to a better background brother of the same level means most of your guys will shoe-horned into non demanding roles -> tanks, ranged, two handers and 2nd line two handers. Actually you will have trouble finding good archers and melee two handers, those roles and the lack of space will have you playing basically as an undead phalanx with some ranged attack added in. Once brothers start specializing in a weapon type you will have the option to use ones or the others but the basic tactic won't change, you will form a line and exchange attacks with the enemy using your superior numbers and two lines of effective brothers to weather them down until they are no more, you will roll over the enemy line but be unable to breach it and go through to attack back-liners such as enemy archer, necros... This tactic is all well, but once you find yourself against end game, with heavy spike damage and/or aoe damage this tactic is going to become less and less useful:
Against Schrats your second liners will be the perfect target for their aoe
Against Lindwurms your superior numbers won't be applicable unless you put many brothers in the aoe
Against southerners your packed lines are the perfect target for bombs and handgoons
Against legendary locations where you usually have a singular enemy you need to take out asap you brother will have trouble opening a gap to reach him.

For all those things you need the best brothers who can tank and aoe mob alone or when it is the moment surround the monster and destroy it before it can attack back, bad luck with peasant militia.
But it is worse if you need to push forward to create a hole in the enemy line and push into it to reach strategic targets in the back of the enemy formation, the poor ranged brothers don't help at this either.

TLDR: Superior numbers are great mid game but by end game it's a liability in the form of more AOE damage received, also your line will be less manoeuvrable and tactically unflexible.
Wtf?

'your guys will shoe-horned into non demanding roles -> tanks, ranged, two handers and 2nd line two handers' - What more do you need? (I use some X-Bow / Whip sergeants, but you'll find them for Militia as well.)

'unable to breach it and go through to attack back-liners such as enemy archer, necros' - Most times, it's best to not split the party and smash undead to pieces before some go for the necro or priest. Sometimes you can use tanks to get to enemies' soft spots - with 16 or 12 Bros.

You don't need to fight Schrats and Lindwurm anyway, and even if you want to, having an additional tank - or three - against Lindwurms is fantastic. They still hit like trucks and have 20-25% chances to do so, even against 70+ MDef tanks. And what's wrong with more Bros against Schrats? Don't line them up for the Schrats to attack. Surround them.

You worry about legendary locations? They stay the same, regardless of difficulty or company size. Gobbo City is not that hard, when you can bring 6-7 Archers AND(!) are able to properly protect them with more Bros. Black Monolith is a lot easier when you can send two tanks up north and one in front of you AND still have two more man you can use to smash or maybe protect a thrower you wouldn't bring otherwise.

'your line will be less manoeuvrable and tactically unflexible' - there is no penalty to movement for the Militia origin. Do you run out of hexes or something?

A thing to say against 16 Bros is, that it becomes less personal and mopping up can get quite tedious. I think 12 Bros with 3-4 in reserve really is the sweet spot.
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
You can have militia's, lumberjacks and shepherds what the fuck are you talking about. You can literally build an elite team for any fight and just rotate people in based on the encounter.

Like sorry I don't want to be mean but you obviously have no idea how to play this game if you ever think that having more men on the field and in reserve is bad.
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
btw gladiators really show the worst sort of "difficulty" in the late game

just the utterly absolute tedium of paying 1K a day for a company

I upped the spawn of champions to like between 10 to 95 percent(goblins to hedge knights) so that I can actually afford to go exploring into the wilderness thanks to bounties lol
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
7,340
You can have militia's, lumberjacks and shepherds what the fuck are you talking about. You can literally build an elite team for any fight and just rotate people in based on the encounter.

Like sorry I don't want to be mean but you obviously have no idea how to play this game if you ever think that having more men on the field and in reserve is bad.

Not to mention you can get some backgrounds via events: barbarian, retired soldier, king's guard and others. Militia is one of the better origins and fielding 4 extra bros is a huge boost late game.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,378
Location
Itaca
You can have militia's, lumberjacks and shepherds what the fuck are you talking about. You can literally build an elite team for any fight and just rotate people in based on the encounter.

Like sorry I don't want to be mean but you obviously have no idea how to play this game if you ever think that having more men on the field and in reserve is bad.

I don't want to be mean but I never said what you claim I did but pointed out large numbers also have some drawbacks that in some circumstances can back-fire at you so maybe you should read more carefully.
 
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Unwanted

Horvatii

Unwanted
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
563
large numbers also have some drawbacks that in some circumstances can back-fire at you
They dont and they cant. Nothing you wrote and none of your examples are true. In before cascading morale that you didnt mention of all things xD

Literally the first thing you write is straight up retarded.
Fielding 16 guys is going to leave you both without space to manoeuvre
Cause yeah, as plain as 4 extra billhooks on the field is gonna stop you from circling flanks vs 20 enemies...
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
Having too many fielded mercs has many drawbacks.

  • First, you get more enemies, aside from legendary locations which don't scale.
  • It makes the fights more tedious and also way longer.
  • If you play with the Legends mod, the increased difficulty and the increased scaling number will make it even harder.
  • It's actually harder to manoeuver, specially if you're specialized in 2H bros who need the space.
  • You get hit more often by missed arrows, stones and quarrels.

Battle are slow enough if you only field 9-12 bros, i find 9 is the sweet spot if you only field elite troops.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I like to limit myself to 8 only if I'm doing a gladiator, lone wolf, or other "premium bros only" start, though I will recruit from milita, nomads, and squires since some have some very nice stats.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yeah, of course more bros will generally be a positive, but I really don't want to play with 16 bros, seems like a drag.

Just started a Lone Wolf and I'm planning ~8 bros carefully recruited and cultivated, which of course means dumping 60% of my income on Tryouts
 
Unwanted

Horvatii

Unwanted
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
563
  • First, you get more enemies, aside from legendary locations which don't scale.
Many more things dont scale with nr of bros. Peasant background scales up to 14 for things that do scale, not 16.

  • It makes the fights more tedious and also way longer.
Irrelevant

  • If you play with the Legends mod, the increased difficulty and the increased scaling number will make it even harder.
Also irrelevant

  • You get hit more often by missed arrows, stones and quarrels.
I made a hrmpf sound, indicating amusement at this reach. You do realize that even in those astronomical cases, you are getting hit into free bros?

  • It's actually harder to manoeuver, specially if you're specialized in 2H bros who need the space.
Just step to the side bro, step one tile to the side bro. Maps arent 16x16.
 
Unwanted

Horvatii

Unwanted
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
563
Why is no one here DISCUSS! retinue?
For exmaple, the kid collecting tools after baddle. How much does he collect?

Or how many of the retinue are just a money source in roundabout?
 
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Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
761
Scavenger is plain bad. Dunno maybe he gather plenty of tools late when fighting heavy armored enemies but early to mid he is not worth cash.
He would be useful if you got him early for free and even then barely.
Cartographer is another one that is worthless. I mean sure extra cash its nice early but you still need to find legendary location(RNG) and pay for him. If he was cheaper or free or grant extra renown on some camps it would be better.

Thread theme(its about RNG if you not aware).
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
34
Just started a Lone Wolf and I'm planning ~8 bros carefully recruited and cultivated, which of course means dumping 60% of my income on Tryouts
I wish I had the dedication to play like this but as soon as I hire a useless bro my finger finds its way to the load button like magic
 

zaper

Yes.
Developer
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
404
Just started a Lone Wolf and I'm planning ~8 bros carefully recruited and cultivated, which of course means dumping 60% of my income on Tryouts
I wish I had the dedication to play like this but as soon as I hire a useless bro my finger finds its way to the load button like magic
That's why you play Copperman: Ironman most of the time, but ALT + F4 when an important bro dies in a battle.
 

oasis789

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
391
Peasant militia seems to me to be the heart and soul of Battle Brothers, having to make things work with disposable fodder, while still having the potential to become stronger in the long run. The new Slavers origin is similar but without the potential upside, so I don't see what the point is. Whereas Lonewolf with its one or two bad rolls away from game over is imo not really what the game is intended to be, and Gladiators is just the same but with two extra lives and way more upkeep. Cultist origin is still the most flavorful and interesting, but also incredibly tedious because of the complete lack of control over cult events.

But from actually playing I'd say Raiders origin is the best simply because it actually reduces the amount of grind for equipment in a meaningful way. Scavenger retinue might save you some gold in the very long run, longer than most ironman campaigns end up, but Raiders straight away saves you the tedium of surrounding and knifing for every piece of armor.
 

Calcium

Educated
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
54
I rolled a sellsword with 44 starting ranged but 3 stars and 3 stars in fatigue. With gifted he should be at 90+ ranged skill by level 11. He also has 67 starting melee, so potentially a good hybrid but I'm not really sold on the efficacy of hybrid characters. What do bros?
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
I rolled a sellsword with 44 starting ranged but 3 stars and 3 stars in fatigue. With gifted he should be at 90+ ranged skill by level 11. He also has 67 starting melee, so potentially a good hybrid but I'm not really sold on the efficacy of hybrid characters. What do bros?

Sellswords are very expensive so either they're very good at something or they're good for nothing.
I'd try experimental hybrid builds on less expensive recruits.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,378
Location
Itaca
Well he does have a very good base Melee value, you can try something like 1Hweapons+board and throwing weapons+board. Throwing weapons can be devastating and you don't need gifted for them at all since they have a bonus to hit. With that fatigue that guy can really spam skill and take advantage of Second Wind.
 

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