Factorio - a factory building game

[Blaine]

It was another annoying game which had tower defense in their tags. But this game did sort of bill itself as tower defense too by having a td mode.. and having towers, and having things to defend against...

We've been over all of this before. Factorio's official Steam tags have never included the Tower Defense tag, full stop. There may be a TD-themed scenario. I actually don't know, because I never even look at the scenarios; they're a very minor side attraction to the real meat of the game, more meant to teach or challenge than to satisfy.

Claiming that Factorio should be a proper TD game because it has turrets and enemies is utterly ridiculous and genuinely makes you sound simpleminded. There have been turrets and enemies in computer games since long before the TD genre even existed. Walls and turrets are in fact a logical inclusion in order to defend a superstructure against aggressive native life-forms. The excellent science fiction novel The Legacy of Heorot, published in 1987, is a good example of this.

Your argument is, essentially, that if a game includes defensive emplacements and aggressive enemies, then the developers are "cheating you" if said game is not primarily a TD game that follows the conventions of the TD genre. This is utter lunacy.

Also, I don't just want to build. If I wanted that, I could play Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe, Sim City 4, etc. Factorio isn't even about "building" in that sense, and isn't at all about management; it's about designing and plonking down ever-more-elaborate, scalar assembler complexes.

TD games are not any of those things you are talking about.

Oh, yes, they are. There may be a select few that rise above the pack, but if so, I haven't played them.

I will look into Defense Grid later. I've got too many "I want to play this" games on my plate right now. If I do play it, and it turns out to be yet another shitty, cookie-cutter TurD, then I'm going to be quite upset.

 

[anvi]

No I said another annoying game did (basically a 3d version of this shit only slightly better combat and even more grind). Factorio just did tower defense stuff of its own accord, badly. And for what?! None of you even care. Why judge the scenarios if you never even tried them? Noob. And it's not that I'm claiming Factorio should be a proper TD game, I am saying it already is one because they made it one, they just needed to spend a bit of time fleshing it out. They would have done it if there was pressure on them to do it... Like I said, you fucked yourself out of a better game. So did the kids who play shitty Minecraft.

That other 3d version of this game has enemy swarms that attack your base and you can build towers to defend it. The enemies get harder as you progress and grow. And they drop items, just like they used to in Factorio... It is basically the same game only in 3d, and made by one guy, and he is a dick, and even he did better than Craptorio. Also Defense Grid is great and I bet you struggle to beat a lot of missions once it ramps up. If you get to the last mission, there may be some hope for you.

 

[Blaine]

The enemies in Factorio NEVER dropped loot. Only their immobile spawners did, which had nothing at all to do with DEFENSE, since you had to depart your base, leave your turrets behind, and go on the OFFENSE to seek out and destroy THEIR bases in order to obtain that loot.

I understand you fully and completely. You're absolutely deluded. You believe that if certain very common features and conventions are present in a game—features that are often also present in or essential to the TD genre—then that game qualifies as a TD game in your mind. If said game then fails to live up to your criteria for TD games, you turn into a big, blubbering, furious baby—at least in this case, no doubt because Factorio is much better, more popular, and far more successful than any TD game ever developed... other than Plants vs Zombies, hah (which was very popular, but otherwise casual shovelware). Damn, I bet that burns your ass.

The game you're cryptically referring to is called Fortresscraft Evolved. I know because I have played it. The developer is indeed a dipshit, and the logistics and optimization portion of FE is NOTHING compared to Factorio. The defending against waves of enemies portion is exceptionally dull and boring.

Also Defense Grid is great and I bet you struggle to beat a lot of missions once it ramps up. If you get to the last mission, there may be some hope for you.

I'd probably struggle to complete the final level of a Japanese bullet-hell shooter with three-button controls, too. I'm getting on towards age 40. I can sit here at my desk right now and program a simple, but impossibly difficult game. Difficulty does not equal entertainment or quality in and of itself, though all good games should also be satisfyingly difficult.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Spawners drop loot? Is that a 1.0 change they added? I do not recall the spawners ever dropping anything upon destruction.

 

[Ironmonk]

Removed from the game at 0.15

https://wiki.factorio.com/Alien_artifact

 

[anvi]

The enemies in Factorio NEVER dropped loot. Only their immobile spawners did, which had nothing at all to do with DEFENSE, since you had to depart your base, leave your turrets behind, and go on the OFFENSE to seek out and destroy THEIR bases in order to obtain that loot.

I understand you fully and completely. You're absolutely deluded. You believe that if certain very common features and conventions are present in a game—features that are often also present in or essential to the TD genre—then that game qualifies as a TD game in your mind. If said game then fails to live up to your criteria for TD games, you turn into a big, blubbering, furious baby—at least in this case, no doubt because Factorio is much better, more popular, and far more successful than any TD game ever developed... other than Plants vs Zombies, hah (which was very popular, but otherwise casual shovelware). Damn, I bet that burns your ass.

The game you're cryptically referring to is called Fortresscraft Evolved. I know because I have played it. The developer is indeed a dipshit, and the logistics and optimization portion of FE is NOTHING compared to Factorio. The defending against waves of enemies portion is exceptionally dull and boring.

Also Defense Grid is great and I bet you struggle to beat a lot of missions once it ramps up. If you get to the last mission, there may be some hope for you.

I'd probably struggle to complete the final level of a Japanese bullet-hell shooter with three-button controls, too. I'm getting on towards age 40. I can sit here at my desk right now and program a simple, but impossibly difficult game. Difficulty does not equal entertainment or quality in and of itself, though all good games should also be satisfyingly difficult.

I don't care about PVZ or tower defense in general, it is a dumbed down offspring of RTS which I still play so w/e. But TD done well is good, which you wouldn't know since you are a noob at it like everything else it seems!

And yes that is the other game I didn't want to name it because he doesn't deserve any clicks. You barely even get to build a fortress because it takes so long to dig 5000m holes and guide a lazer through it... and then repeat it like 15 times. He is retarded. This game isn't much better. The defense part of that game was much better. He only made it dull and boring by not explaining that it doesn't matter until the very end. p.s. Deluded is trying to pretend I'm insane for wanting a game with TD in it to do a decent job of TD. It is fangirlish and disgusts me.

 

[Rando Thoughtful]

Ffs anvi you're misunderstanding the way most everyone else gets enjoyment of the game how hard is it to understand. Ain't no one going into this game as a tower defense game but you

 

[anvi]

Lots of people said the exact same things as me on their forums.

 

[Jaedar]

Lots of people said the exact same things as me on their forums.

This might actually be true. Way back in the early days of factorio, they devs didn't know what they were making, so they opened it up to community discussion if the game should go more towards, rts, tower defense, combat...

In the end I think the game wound up borrowing quite a lot from many genres, but the very core, building an automated base seems to be in the process of becoming its own little genre with clones already on the way.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Lots of people said the exact same things as me on their forums.

 

[Beowulf]

 

[Twiglard]

There aren't multiple solutions to the same problem. The game is about optimizing the predetermined supply chain. There's one solution that's correct and multiple heavily suboptimal ones. There are few choices but they're subtle: sometimes robots are actually a feasible replacement for belts (when used skillfully); on-site smelting is an option; kovarex can be done multiple ways. But the focus is on analysis and not creativity.

Then the author says modules and beacons are redundant. He's not qualified to make a review.

 

[thesheeep]

There aren't multiple solutions to the same problem. The game is about optimizing the predetermined supply chain. There's one solution that's correct and multiple heavily suboptimal ones. There are few choices but they're subtle: sometimes robots are actually a feasible replacement for belts (when used skillfully); on-site smelting is an option; kovarex can be done multiple ways. But the focus is on analysis and not creativity.

Then the author says modules and beacons are redundant. He's not qualified to make a review.

It might surprise you, but not everyone plays the game the way you do.
I'm not arguing that there isn't a most efficient way to do something in the game. But that way might simply not be how people choose to play - yet they still manage to "beat" the game.

I know I did and I never bothered a lot with modules - it was just too fiddly and I managed just fine mostly without them.

 

[Jaedar]

There's one solution that's correct and multiple heavily suboptimal ones.

In the philosophical sense, this is true for every game.

 

[Twiglard]

how people choose to play - yet they still manage to "beat" the game

Launching a rocket isn't the end of the game -- it's the beginning. I'd draw an analogy to Path of Exile and the atlas.

 

[thesheeep]

how people choose to play - yet they still manage to "beat" the game

Launching a rocket isn't the end of the game -- it's the beginning. I'd draw an analogy to Path of Exile and the atlas.

Entirely disagree.
I have no interest in the game after the rocket, I'm done then.
Same with atlas.

I beat the story, maybe do a few maps after that, but that's it - time for the next character (or the next game).

Just try and get it into your skull that there are multiple ways to play the game (which is exactly what the review claimed) and even multiple goals to set for yourself.

 

[Jaedar]

how people choose to play - yet they still manage to "beat" the game

Launching a rocket isn't the end of the game -- it's the beginning. I'd draw an analogy to Path of Exile and the atlas.

It really depends on what you like about the game. All the way up to the rocket, you are continuously fed new technology and old tasks become automatic (ex from doing stuff by hand to belts and inserters to robots). After launching the rocket, you are in pure optimization mode. There are no new recipes, no more tools to unlock, just bigger and faster factories.

The same for PoE. If what you want is just to see new skills, the game effectively ends in act 4. If you want to see the story to its conclusion, you may only play acts (there is a story in the endgame maps, but it is not as detailed and almost entirely separated from the main story). If you want to optimize your build, get awesome gear and climb the highest mountain... then yeah, the atlas is basically the beginning, with everything else being a long tutorial.

Not to mention that some people like set external goals, which "launch the rocket" or "beat kitava" are, whereas "optimize your factory/build" is more open ended.



Anyone else who misses reading the friday facts posts?

 

[Twiglard]

After launching the rocket, you are in pure optimization mode. There are no new recipes, no more tools to unlock, just bigger and faster factories.

There's more to the game's systems though. There's more to it than what is necessary to launch the rocket. For that you don't even need a full yellow belt of red circuits. You've only gained the surface level understanding, without letting the systems shine.

 

[Perkel]

I like satisfactory sollution to linear chain.

You find data chips in world which give you random recipe. For example intead of using iron for plates you will be able to use copper or something else. Some of those get wacky but overall they give you nice "hmmmm" moment to see if this could improve your production.

But yeah Factorio needs alternative methods of getting some resources and in general expansion of basic resources and chains.

 

[anvi]

Factorio needs lots of stuff -.-

 

[Norfleet]

What Factorio NEEDS is for them to officially integrate the mod that lets us identify as an attack helicopter. But apparently the devs are heliphobes.

 

[Average Manatee]

After launching the rocket, you are in pure optimization mode. There are no new recipes, no more tools to unlock, just bigger and faster factories.

There's more to the game's systems though. There's more to it than what is necessary to launch the rocket. For that you don't even need a full yellow belt of red circuits. You've only gained the surface level understanding, without letting the systems shine.

I am the same and couldn't really care less about expanding the base beyond firing the rocket. But that's why I play (deathworld) marathon, where getting a rocket launched takes an order of magnitude more resources. Vanilla settings are just way, way too easy to reach the limits of your teching minutes after setting up a new science production chain.

 

[Twiglard]

What Factorio NEEDS is for them to officially integrate the mod that lets us identify as an attack helicopter. But apparently the devs are heliphobes.

Attack spider isn't good enough for you?

 

[Norfleet]

Did they finally happen? I remember them talking about it ages ago, but it never actually materialized.

 

[racofer]

What Factorio NEEDS is for them to officially integrate the mod that lets us identify as an attack helicopter. But apparently the devs are heliphobes.

Attack spider isn't good enough for you?

Did you just assume his gender?