Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

The problem with Rangers is that there's nothing they can do Rogues can't or can't do even better. Rangers (and some other classes) should've been left at the cutting board.

 

[Thac0]

The problem with Rangers is that there's nothing they can do Rogues can't or can't do even better. Rangers (and some other classes) should've been left at the cutting board.

Rangers and Rogues are really different in 5e.
Rogues get odd stuff like Expertise and Sneak Attack and Cunning Action as their main class features.
Rangers get Extra Attack, Half Casting and Fighting Styles.
Why they are bad is that Fighters make much better archers than them, and Paladins make much better half casters. There are only two different half caster classes in the game, the Ranger and the Paladin. The Paladin is one of the best classes in the game, and makes the Ranger look like utter trash in comparison.

Now interesting to mind is that the default ranger archetype Hunter is not bad. They get Volley of Arrows and Collosus Slayer or Horde Breaker for making an archer that is definitly comparable to a Battlemaster fighter sniper. Their second archetype Beastmaster is however utter trash and really needs a competent player to be even moderatly successfull. The new ranger archetypes, speciifically the Gloom Stalker and the Horizon planar guy are not bad either.

While they are undoubtably already buffing the ranger in their changes, I think the easiest fix would just be to give them new unique spells. http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spell:zephyr-strike Zephyr Strike alone from one of the expansion books in 5e took melee Rangers from utter trash to an interesting option. Perhaps rework their casting so that they get certain spells they learn for free, that do not count against their known spells limit, and put Hutners Mark, Zephyr Strike and a few other good ones in there, so you can't fuck that up.

 

[Lacrymas]

There could've been a Rogue subclass that gives them Druid half-casting potential instead of Wizard spells with Arcane Trickster. With the existence of subclasses, a lot of the main classes become suspect at best. Rangers, Monks, Sorcerers, Barbarians for example all could've been subclasses of other main classes. And really, if the solution was giving Rangers a way to ignore certain mechanics of the game (like AoOs with Zephyr Strike, something Rogues can do with their bonus action btw), I think there are bigger problems at play.

 

[Yosharian]

Honestly Hexblade is utterly broken, as much as I'd enjoy abusing the fuck out of it it would be interesting if they didn't include it

 

[Thac0]

Honestly Hexblade is utterly broken, as much as I'd enjoy abusing the fuck out of it it would be interesting if they didn't include it

As someone who enjoyed making melee warlocks before Hexblade it annoys the crap out of me. They turned what was a very interesting challenge for a niche character with a very specific skillset, and powercrept the living hell out of it, making it a braindead archetype and one of the best classes in the game. But whatever, I just won't pick it. Kensai is OP in BG aswell, and I never picked one since making meelee mages without Kensai is much more interesting and challenging. Hexblade will be this games Kensai.

 

[Grunker]

Which classes are launching with Early Access?

• Fighter - Battle Master, Eldritch Knight
• Wizard - Evocation, Abjuration
• Rogue - Arcane Trickster, Thief
• Ranger - Hunter, Beast Master
• Cleric - Life, Light, Trickery
• Warlock - Fiend, Great One

They may add other classes along the way.

Damn, no Hexblade Warlock.

...there goes my character :'(

 

[Grunker]

The problem with Rangers is that there's nothing they can do Rogues can't or can't do even better. Rangers (and some other classes) should've been left at the cutting board.

Not if they go the Unearthed Arcana route. Here rangers have hyperspecialized roles that are very competitive.

But honestly I might overrate rangers despite them being the weakest class in 5th because I'm running Tomb of Annihilation. They're degenerately OP in that adventure, especially in my game since I ramped up the survival-elements.

 

[Thac0]

There could've been a Rogue subclass that gives them Druid half-casting potential instead of Wizard spells with Arcane Trickster. With the existence of subclasses, a lot of the main classes become suspect at best. Rangers, Monks, Sorcerers, Barbarians for example all could've been subclasses of other main classes. And really, if the solution was giving Rangers a way to ignore certain mechanics of the game (like AoOs with Zephyr Strike, something Rogues can do with their bonus action btw), I think there are bigger problems at play.

I hate this argument. Ontopoly was quite fond of it aswell. What it does is reduce the class choices to 2-4 classes. Warrior, wizard and maybe cleric and rogue. Now this sucks for everyone, new and experienced players alike.
When you are new to the system you do not know where your favored playstile has gone. Is the monk a warrior or a rogue subclass? Is the Paladin a warrior or a cleric? Also when you pick your class, lets say warrior, you will be bombarded by about a dozen subclasses.
For experienced players it makes multiclassing a lot less exciting. When the ranger is a rogue subclass you just can't build a ranger/rogue multi. If the sorcerer is a wizard subclass the arcanist (wizard/sorcerer) is dead. It leads to a lot less depth.
Also it turns class identity into mush. DnD profits heavily from having very distinct classes in playstile. If your paladin and your barbarian are both warrior subclasses, you can't make them functionally that different, since they need to share the brunt of their elements. I say more classes all the way, not less.

All in all WOTC should really get their game on. It's a god damn shame they still don't have a proper 13th class. Psion failed heavily and Artificer is still in an odd semi shape. Also I want a god damn Int half caster to give every mental attribute a half caster. Call him scholar, spellblade or just straight up gish, I dont care.

 

[Storyfag]

There could've been a Rogue subclass that gives them Druid half-casting potential instead of Wizard spells with Arcane Trickster. With the existence of subclasses, a lot of the main classes become suspect at best. Rangers, Monks, Sorcerers, Barbarians for example all could've been subclasses of other main classes. And really, if the solution was giving Rangers a way to ignore certain mechanics of the game (like AoOs with Zephyr Strike, something Rogues can do with their bonus action btw), I think there are bigger problems at play.

You are mistaking stars for their reflection in water.

Can a rogue track prey in the forest or foretell weather? Can a ranger open locks or disarm traps? Focusing on the combat applications of the classes is your folly.

 

[Radech]

The problem with Rangers is that there's nothing they can do Rogues can't or can't do even better. Rangers (and some other classes) should've been left at the cutting board.

Not if they go the Unearthed Arcana route. Here rangers have hyperspecialized roles that are very competitive.

But honestly I might overrate rangers despite them being the weakest class in 5th because I'm running Tomb of Annihilation. They're degenerately OP in that adventure, especially in my game since I ramped up the survival-elements.

Just helped a mate roll up the 2nd ranger in our DnD party after I killed his cleric, he's a human ranger:hunter with polearm mastery and sentinel which seems like a pretty cheesy combo, add in the spell zephyr strike and the hunters against the horde, and I think you have something that can compete with a fighter:battlemaster, though I might be wrong - the other is a halfling beastmaster riding his piggy, which is quite useless, but I've been trying to give him some ogre gaunts(druid took them and fell in love with a glaive...) and a lance, but so far it's been decent for setting up flanking for the barb and the rogue/fighter and surprisingly resilient.

 

[Elex]

Speaking of that did they say if they were using unearthed arcana for base ranger or pure core here?

Tasha ranger probally.

 

[Lacrymas]

I hate this argument. Ontopoly was quite fond of it aswell. What it does is reduce the class choices to 2-4 classes. Warrior, wizard and maybe cleric and rogue. Now this sucks for everyone, new and experienced players alike.
When you are new to the system you do not know where your favored playstile has gone. Is the monk a warrior or a rogue subclass? Is the Paladin a warrior or a cleric? Also when you pick your class, lets say warrior, you will be bombarded by about a dozen subclasses.
For experienced players it makes multiclassing a lot less exciting. When the ranger is a rogue subclass you just can't build a ranger/rogue multi. If the sorcerer is a wizard subclass the arcanist (wizard/sorcerer) is dead. It leads to a lot less depth.
Also it turns class identity into mush. DnD profits heavily from having very distinct classes in playstile. If your paladin and your barbarian are both warrior subclasses, you can't make them functionally that different, since they need to share the brunt of their elements. I say more classes all the way, not less.

"It reduces the number of classes" -> yes, that's the point. Not simply to reduce the classes, but to give the "surviving" classes more variety within their own builds. I'd leave Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, Druid, Warlock, and Bard (but take away their full arcane spellcasting ability). Monk and Barbarian are subclasses of Fighter, Ranger of Rogue, Sorcerer of Wizard, Paladin of Cleric (whether Paladins are more fighters or clerics is pointless speculative fiction). In Pathfinder, Clerics already have a Crusader subclass, so this isn't mind-boggling or unthinkable. You wouldn't need to build a Ranger/Rogue multi because the Ranger is already that. So, now you have effectively triple-class options depending on the surviving mechanics of each discarded class. And besides, you are already bombarded by subclass options when you take into account Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Unearthed Arcana, and the soon-to-be-released Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Giving more feats and designing less but more extensive subclasses would be better for multi-classing. I started crusading against so many classes when I saw what a design mess PoE1/2's classes are. There simply aren't enough ideas to go around for 12+ main classes and oh boy does it show.

Speaking of Pathfinder, you can see that there. The gameplay differences of each subclass and even some main classes are minuscule and myopic. Pointless even.

Can a rogue track prey in the forest or foretell weather? Can a ranger open locks or disarm traps? Focusing on the combat applications of the classes is your folly.

The answer to both of these questions is "yes" when you give (or deny) the subclasses the option to do that. There's no need for a complete class just to foretell the weather lol. This is what I mean by myopic and minuscule, and this is even one of the better examples because it at least has some minor gameplay benefit.

 

[NJClaw]

As long as we never have to see the Wu Jen and Shugenja classes again, I'm fine with everything.

Look at these absolute fucking mongoloids:

What are they supposed to be?

At least the Wu Jen had those cool shitty spells with scarfs (like Iron Scarf) and a couple of crazy buffs with interesting philosophical implications (like Body Outside Body and Giant Size). But what was the point of the fucking Shugenja? God I hate that class so fucking much.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1086940/announcements/detail/2885074731428367104

Coming to GOG too (no mention on simultaneous release). Modding will be supported after EA.

Community Update #6 - Multiplayer & Cinematics

“You’re telling your story, and we’re shooting it for you,” explains our Cinematic Director, Jason Latino. “We’re taking that camera down from being above the players, and down into the drama, right into the action.”

“I can’t think of another Early Access game that’s done cinematics, on this level. There’s a lot of games where the moment you add cinematics, they have to get smaller.”

“We didn’t want to do that.”

Everyone - it’s time to talk about multiplayer. Cinematics, Crowd Choice, and Twitch integration. We’re creating a huge, sprawling RPG with all the tools you need to direct your own adventure, and weave your own tale. Or, weave that tale with your friends, or your audience online. No matter if you choose to play solo, with friends, or with your audience -- Baldur’s Gate 3 is a huge cinematic experience spanning over 1.5 million words, and that story can be enjoyed together through the games cinematics, in multiplayer, or as an audience in a stream.

If your character walks into a dialogue situation, the cinematic dialogue begins with you by yourself. If one of your posse comes close, they can choose whether or not they join you in the discussion. Once they do, they can tell you what options they would like you to select as you ponder your next choice.

Your party is of course free to roam around the world while you independently charm your way through conversation. They can even pick-pocket you while you’re in a dialogue. Or cause a fire. Or abandon you. Or, put an end to your waffling and kill the person you’re talking to.

Whatever you do, the game will react appropriately. Even if your friends aren’t.

Our ambition is to make all of this as seamless and interactive as we can and during Early Access you can expect us to continue building more and more ways to interact, observe, intraject, and subvert expectations. Raising the level of drama, and expanding the level of depth.

As far as we know, there has never been an RPG this large, with multiplayer, attempting these intimate, character driven cinematic moments throughout the entire experience. We put a lot of effort in it and are super curious to hear your feedback. Applying cinematics to a multiplayer game, and one launched in Early Access, means that our cinematic ambitions can grow alongside all the other iterations and tweaks that come with working directly with our community and that can only lead to good things!

Spoiler

TWITCH / CROWD CHOICE

With Crowd Choice, a Stadia Enhanced Feature, you’ll be able to choose the next story path and alter what happens next during your favorite YouTube Creator's livestream.

Twitch integration works by numbering each dialogue option, which corresponds to the viewer choices. This feedback is seamlessly integrated into the game, where both streamer and viewer will see each percentage vote next to each dialogue option. What’s more, players will be able to interact with the Twitch overlay to access the player’s inventory, character sheet, skills, and spells.

Both of these features are launching day 1 of Early Access respectively on PC or Stadia. This too is something we’re very excited about not only because it brings the community closer to the player, but also because due to the amount of permutations in dialogues, it enables streamers to “DM” their own adventure for their viewers, and have their viewers partake in their story regardless of whether or not the viewer owns the game.

You’ll be able to become a part of your favourite streamer’s own private canon. Or, as a streamer, or viewer, disable the feature entirely. It’s up to you. As always, the game reacts appropriately.

THE NEXT STEP

Today’s Community Update video begins with a memory of Divinity: Original Sin quite deliberately. Interactions in DOS1 were merely relegated to rock-paper-scissors (literally!), and dialogue moments between players were a wall of text that scrolled down the screen. We took this a little further in Divinity: Original Sin 2, as characters and players reacted to who you are, and what you’ve done, with many permutations spanning multiple races and tags. Still, dialogues between characters, and interactions in multiplayer were rudimentary though much evolved over DOS1.

Baldur’s Gate 3 is the next great leap and once you’ll start playing, you’ll find that the distance between DOS2 and Baldur’s Gate 3 is tremendously large, as we begin to push the boat out on not only cinematic dialogues, but also the ways in which you can interact with them.

In Baldur’s Gate 3 dialogues have more permutations, more depth, and a cinematic layer that reacts seamlessly to any situation using custom adaptive camera technology (see: elves and dwarves are nay the same height) as well as performance capture. Now, not only do we retain the narration our games are so well known for, but you’ll often see the action on screen - whether it’s a vampiric bite in the night, or a slip of the tongue on a goblin’s foot. Long gone is rock-paper-scissors, as we’ve built tools for debate not only within the multiplayer party, but also as an extension to the thousands of people who watch at home, all in the spirit of the D&D spirit of bringing people together. And we still have some surprises up our sleeve when it comes to multiplayer, but we’ll leave those for another time. There have never been a greater number of ways to gather your party in a single game. Now’s the time!

Q&A

Finally, thank you all for your organization across Reddit and Discord regarding the questions you’d like answered. We’re going to try and answer around 10 questions every update, which we’ll try and do quite frequently. Here are the answers to your questions for number 6. Having questions organized in this way gives us time to read them and respond to them, and also gives us a great sense of how to prioritize them based on how you all vote/rank them. We really appreciate the sense of community spirit and organization.

Will difficulty choices affect more than just enemy health and damage? e.g. increasing the DC on some rolls while exploring the world?
Yes there are many features planned for different difficulty levels, which we’ll go over in a future update - but EA isn’t launching with difficulty choices, as we prioritize everything you need to have an enjoyable experience.

How much of an impact will alignment have?
None, similar to D&D 5e we don’t have a strict alignment system. But your actions and decisions will have a major impact on how the world and people react around you. So you can be evil, or good, or something in between - but there’s no strict system. As we’ve mentioned, EA is about 25 hours of content “in a straight line” so to speak, but we’ve built everything you need to try many different types of characters, interactions, and combinations. The world in Early Access will react. Tell us what happens.

Will early access get modding support, like the steam workshop and its various modding tools?
We loved what our modding community did with DOS2, and we’re excited to see what they’ll do with BG3. Modding will be supported, but not before 1.0, not during EA. Again, we really need to focus on working with feedback and creating the game.

Is there a Lone Wolf mode planned?
This is actually a question already being asked by a number of our playtesters who are currently playing the game. A Lone Wolf mode is planned, but won’t be in the game at the beginning of Early Access. One of the many great discussions that come from people playing, and talking with us.

About how fast can you make an entire campaign now that you have the game engine made? I’m thinking it’d be absolutely amazing if you could make a few popular 5E DnD campaigns using the BG3 engine now that you have everything working.
This is a very interesting question. Indeed since launch a lot of our time has been put into creating the tools and pipelines (including entire new departments) needed to create a game much more ambitious than our previous games. All we can say at this point is that our pipelines are very much up and running, and we’re seeing the fruits of all that labour. Now that everything is plugged together, we’re able to work quite quickly when it comes to content - though many departments are involved, and many things are plugged into each other. However, it takes a long time to make a very big game with so many permutations.

Will there be ultrawide support?
Our previous games work well on UW so it’s something we’ll put effort in, we’re already taking it into account in cinematic dialogs so it's something we plan for the future. (Director of Publishing interjection here: I’ve been playing BG3 on UW at home and at the office since day 1. Ultrawide for the win! Let us know how you get on.)

Date + Time of release globally?
10am PST - assuming everything works out exactly as it should.
As soon as we hit the button you’ll be able purchase and install the game, or launch it right from Stadia without the need to install it.

What languages are coming for Early Access? And which will be included later?
We’ve confirmed English, Simplified Chinese, French, German, Polish, Russian, Spanish will be available in Early Access.
We have decided to include Brazlian Portuguese and Italian in 1.0, but not during EA. This is because it would be too cumbersome to add additional languages as we write the game during Early Access, but we want you to know that we will support you.

Will we be able to carry our characters over from early access into the full game?
Unfortunately, as with most Early Access games, there are changes, bug fixes and patches that dictate the fact that wipes will happen to saves. This is because certain fundamental changes to engine, story, etc create incompatibility issues. We will try and tell you when this will happen, in advance.

Will EA be available on GOG?
Working on that.

What integrations will be available for Twitch & Stadia streamers?
DIDN’T YOU READ THE UPDATE? :D

 

[J_C]

TWITCH / CROWD CHOICE

Thank God they have their priorities.

 

[Dodo1610]

I missed those silly update videos

 

[d1r]

Cersei Lannister as a elf looks hot.

 

[NJClaw]

 

[Nano]

Her face reminds me of Sera from DAI, but at least her hair is a bit longer. Also the way her hair sticks to her cheeks is weird.

 

[Alienman]

All I heard was CINEMATICS.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

You can't hide from me, Swen. The fact you're talking so little about the plot means you're hiding some KOTOR-like "big reveal." Other than that, nice update. Still won't be playing the EA. I'd rather have the complete package, especially since some autists are bound to data-mine plot information and leak them.

 

[Gargaune]

TWITCH / CROWD CHOICE

Thank God they have their priorities.

Baldur's Gate 3 - beloved by prestigious RPG communities such as the RPG Codex and Twitch!

Spoiler

Where is your Incline now, motherfuckers?

 

[NJClaw]

plot

 

[Drakortha]

They really love pushing home the point that Early Access is just the greatest thing since sliced bread don't they?

This game is bullshit, it's all just marketing and pandering to it's fullest extent. They couldn't even recapture that epic feeling from the original soundtrack in their new theme song, it sounds soulless by comparison. And every piece of marketing material they bring out is offensively ugly in one way or another. My expectations are set really low on this one.

All this bullshit about choices and twitch integration is giving me flashbacks of Todd Howard showing off the same gimmicks over and over again trying to convince you the game is awesome but really it's just snake oil.

Fuck. This. Game.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Why does Larian show off barely-half-baked UI, character models etc.? Do they really don't care about first impressions? Say what you want about PoE, but the UI and general aesthetics of the games are both cohesive and beautiful. One can clearly see there was a guiding vision behind them. Here I see none, which stings even more now that I'm reading an adventure module made by the old Lead Designer of Baldur's Gate I, and in terms of looks it is above and beyond Larian's fumbling about.