Terms/Subgenres of RPGs

[Chris Koźmik]

Why are you asking?

One should know his trade Since I'm making a living by making RPGs I should at least understand what the terms used by players of that genre mean Preferably with nuances and variants.

• Dungeon crawlers: games that take place in one dungeon, in a first-person perspective, and generally with a first-person persective, e.g. Wizardry, Etrian Odyssey.

But such definition would mean that Dungeon Master is a dungeon crawler and Dungeon Master 2 is not. Same for EoB (EoB 1 would be a dungeon crawler while EoB 2 & 3 would be not). Intuitively, such definition would be not feasible...

 

[Abu Antar]

CRPG = Chinese Role Playing Game.

As the new overlords of role playing games, this is now true.

 

[V_K]

I think most people use the terms "dungeon crawler" and "blobber set in a dungeon" interchangeably, except that "dungeon crawler" can also include some of those oddball "single character blobber" games like Anvil of Dawn and Vaporum.

I think it's more complex than that because the question of what constitutes a dungeon also remains open. For example, an area may be narratively a forest or a swamp, but mechanically a dungeon, like in the aformentioned Anvil of Dawn. Even a whole open world may be one big dungeon in the mechanical sense, like the example of Wizardry 7 shows.
On the other hand, Ultima Underworld or Arx Fatalis aren't blobbers but still totally dungeon crawlers. I would even go as far as to suggest that Dark Souls is one.

I'd say that the defining traits of a dungeon crawler in the most abstract sense are 1) lack of downtime and safe areas (which makes everything into a dungeon in the mechanical sense) and 2) exploration-based rather than story- or quest-based progression (which removes the need for downtime or story dispensation areas). Basically, if there's nowhere to return to from a dungeon to recuperate and get your next task, you're in a dungeon crawler, no matter what it looks like.

When I released Legends of Amberland I got surprised when basically all press started to call it "Dungeon Crawler", even though it's more like an open world and dungeons are just part of it... In addition, when I tried to find a Steam filter for Blobbers (see: "List of all Blobbers on Steam" topic) I noticed that EVERY SINGLE game that had something even remotely like a dungeon of some sort (including RPGs in space where technically there are no dungeons ) had "Dungeon Crawler" tag. Basically, this term is used extremelly broadly and in practice, well, it does not even need the "dungeon" part to be named that

So, it's used in context of some sort of dungeon-likish-but-not-necessarily-a-dungeon area which you CRAWL (the crawler part being much more important than the dungeon part). Which I suppose makes sense, if for example there was an RPG which plays like a dungeon crawler but located in a tower (let's even assume that it's a tower without windows, so the difference is that there are different textures for walls and you go up instead of down), most would not want to exclude it from dungeon crawlers.

Another way to define things is by their ancestry. More or less any CRPG made from late 80s onwards can have its lineage traced either to Wizardry I or to Ultima I (often through intermediaries). The former lineage gives you dungeon crawlers, the latter, traditional CRPGs. In some ways, these "genetic" definitions work better than semantic ones, because they account for permutations and how such different games as, say, Might and Magic III (open-world turn-based blobber) and The Summoning (single-character real-time isometric RPG, but in many ways a Dungeon Master clone) are part of the same genre.

 

[Darth Canoli]

CRPG = Chinese Role Playing Game.

As the new overlords of role playing games, this is now true.

The Chinese trash should go into the JRPG sub-genre until they grow enough to make it to the prestigious cRPG genre.

SRPGs do not need an overworld layer, since it is originally a Japanese term coined by games like Fire Emblem, which used to be just strings of missions. I suggest Strategy/Simulation RPG, tactical turn-based combat with a squad leveling/inventory management and grid/hex based movement.

Now some people call the western version of SRPGs, which are notably different in gameplay style since they contain stuff like Jagged Alliance, just SRPG aswell, some call them TRPG. Wikipedia has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_game, lumping the two terms together. I prefer SRPG for JRPGs, TRPG for WRPGs since the cultural difference between Fallout Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics is pretty high.

SRPG also includes a lot of shit with little movement or tactics involved while TRPG is the right term used for Shining Force likes for two decades.

It's exactly like the retards calling the Heroes of Might & Magic series: HoMaM while it was called HoMM since day 1.
Well, as long as they only call the 6th and 7th entries whatever they want, it's alright, i guess, like if they suddenly wanted to call Fallout 3 and 4: Garbage Walking Simulator 1 & 2, it would be perfectly fine.

 

[Thac0]

The Chinese trash should go into the JRPG sub-genre until they grow enough to make it to the prestigious cRPG genre.

SRPG also includes a lot of shit with little movement or tactics involved while TRPG is the right term used for Shining Force likes for two decades.

Not for the Japanese. TRPG as a term doesn't exist for them. They call those games シミュレーション, Simulation. So calling any Japanese game a TRPG would be silly, unless you see them as the same, and TRPG as a translation of SRPG.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Not for the Japanese. TRPG as a term doesn't exist for them. They call those games シミュレーション, Simulation. So calling any Japanese game a TRPG would be silly, unless you see them as the same, and TRPG as a translation of SRPG.

Who cares how they call it, they don't have their say in anything since they aligned with the nazis and got bombed twice...

 

[Thac0]

Another one which I like quite well is Eurojank. Obviously doesn't see too much use due to the judgemental quality of the word, but it captures the vibe of this most prestigious of subgenres very well.
Games that fall in are the Gothics, KCD, Outward, Greedfall, Witcher 1 etc. Basically action rpgs with super clunky gameplay and very rough diamonds from Europe in general.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Capturing the vibe it does indeed...

I had no idea that junk was so perfectly labeled.
Next step is to exclude eurojank from Codex cRPG top lists.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Capturing the vibe it does indeed...

I had no idea that junk was so perfectly labeled.
Next step is to exclude eurojank from Codex cRPG top lists.

Don't shitpost, man, it's beneath you.

 

[V_K]

The problem with the Eurojunk term is that it doesn't directly refer to action-RPGs and thus some misuse it to refer to perfectly monocled Euro RPGs like Grimrock or Xulima.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Another one which I like quite well is Eurojank. Obviously doesn't see too much use due to the judgemental quality of the word, but it captures the vibe of this most prestigious of subgenres very well.

Though it's only gained definition very recently and has only a tentative foothold in RPGs, the dedicated sub-genre of 'Slavjank' within Eurojank deserves mention.

 

[vonAchdorf]

There are two genres:

turn-based and bad RPGs.

 

[V_K]

There are two genres:

turn-based and bad RPGs.

This classification doesn't work because Bard's Tale and TToN are turn-based.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Terms don't magically change their meaning over time

Respect my historical autism

Akshually there are numerous historical precedents of cases where meaning of some term got changed; maybe because incorrect use that got popular or intentional co-option.

 

[Serus]

JRPGs - Japanesse style RPG (not sure the exact definition but one recognizes those instantly :D)

wRPGs (is this term really used?) - Western RPGs (as opposed to JRPGs).

No, one doesn't recognise them instantly. Jrpg doesn' mean any crpg made in japan (or China, Korea... i suppose). It's a genre, not a geographical designation. Which means there are crpgs made in Japan that aren't jrpgs but belong to different subgenres. And vice versa you could have a jrpg made in usa or europe. However there are people who seem to believe that a jrpg is a crpg made in Japan. They clearly have trouble with recognising them "instantly". Even codex itself doesn't help with that confusion.

 

[Lord_Potato]

There are two genres:

turn-based and bad RPGs.

This classification doesn't work because Bard's Tale and TToN are turn-based.

Heath: the Unchosen Path and Metalheart: Replicant's Rampage are also turn based.

 

[Darth Canoli]

There are two genres:

turn-based and bad RPGs.

This classification doesn't work because Bard's Tale and TToN are turn-based.

They clearly go into the latter category.
He didn't say some TB can't be labeled as bad...

 

[Chris Koźmik]

What is "DRPG"? Can't find any definition (it seems to be used for dungeon crawlers?)

 

[MpuMngwana]

From what I've seen DRPG (dungeon RPG) seems to be used mostly for Japanese-made first person dungeon crawlers (such as Etrian Odyssey or Elminage series). Don't think it's been used much for western games.

 

[DRPG Book]

Agree, it typically refers to first-person grid-based dungeon crawlers. I first saw it used for the Stranger of Sword City ad campaign (http://drpg-sosc.jp/).

I personally use it for Western crawlers as well, but agree that it's much more widely used in Japan.

 

[Puukko]

What is "DRPG"? Can't find any definition (it seems to be used for dungeon crawlers?)

Dad RPG

 

[Lord_Potato]

What is "DRPG"? Can't find any definition (it seems to be used for dungeon crawlers?)

Dad RPG

The most prestigious kind

 

[Dillrodimus Prime]

Terms don't magically change their meaning over time

Pretty sure this is exactly how language works, man. For example, the term moron, in it's original form, referred specifically to someone with an IQ diagnosed between 51-70. Now it just generally means an idiot (which originally designated a lower IQ range).

See also: The legion of kids calling anyone older than them "Boomer" without realizing it originally referred to the Baby Boom.

 

[mondblut]

Basically, if there's nowhere to return to from a dungeon to recuperate and get your next task, you're in a dungeon crawler, no matter what it looks like.

If your definition disqualifies the original Wizardry and its direct copycats, your definition is wrong.

 

[mondblut]

But such definition would mean that Dungeon Master is a dungeon crawler and Dungeon Master 2 is not. Same for EoB (EoB 1 would be a dungeon crawler while EoB 2 & 3 would be not). Intuitively, such definition would be not feasible...

Dumping the word "dungeon" for "maze" would do wonders for clarity.