Terms/Subgenres of RPGs

[Grauken]

Gridder (never heard the term before) is also not a subgenre. It's just a term that describes movement, usually in 1st person RPGs (blobbers or single character ones, like Quest).

Literally made up by a person who hates the term blobber and went to various forums to put blobber down and tried to put gridder forward as an alternative, has a curator on Steam that uses this term exclusively (though others have joined in now, that still hasn't lead to the widespread adoption of the term)

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/188485/gridders-delving-dungeons-one-step-at-a-time

Man of the Waves
Good ol' blobbers. (I only learned about that term recently)

Raggie
Yeah, I hate that term with a passion so I prefer calling them gridders instead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/220-rpgs-role-playing-games/68844659

Davzz
Never heard of gridders before.

SadFerret
If you don't like the word gridder, you can always go back to that other term some people have been using and call them blobbers if you prefer. :-P

(Please don't. I want that word die in a fire. It also makes you sound like an idiot.)

This genre needs a name. "First-person grid-based RPGs" is too long to use, it's a sentence and not a name. "Blobber" sounds stupid and you know a name doesn't work when you have to explain why it's called that. Let us use the word gridder! It's short, it's easy to remember, and it says something about the genre.

 

[mondblut]

Gridder (never heard the term before) is also not a subgenre. It's just a term that describes movement, usually in 1st person RPGs (blobbers or single character ones, like Quest).

Literally made up by a person who hates the term blobber and went to various forums to put blobber down and tried to put gridder forward as an alternative, has a curator on Steam that uses this term exclusively (though others have joined in now, that still hasn't lead to the widespread adoption of the term)

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/188485/gridders-delving-dungeons-one-step-at-a-time

Man of the Waves
Good ol' blobbers. (I only learned about that term recently)

Raggie
Yeah, I hate that term with a passion so I prefer calling them gridders instead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/220-rpgs-role-playing-games/68844659

Davzz
Never heard of gridders before.

SadFerret
If you don't like the word gridder, you can always go back to that other term some people have been using and call them blobbers if you prefer. :-P

(Please don't. I want that word die in a fire. It also makes you sound like an idiot.)

This genre needs a name. "First-person grid-based RPGs" is too long to use, it's a sentence and not a name. "Blobber" sounds stupid and you know a name doesn't work when you have to explain why it's called that. Let us use the word gridder! It's short, it's easy to remember, and it says something about the genre.

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

 

[Grauken]

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

I think it's foolish to get too hung up over genre terms, either people adopt them on their own or they don't. I always find it funny when I see another article for example how metroidvania is a terrible term, but then the authors either have no proposal or even worse names

 

[mondblut]

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

I think it's foolish to get too hung up over genre terms, either people adopt them on their own or they don't. I always find it funny when I see another article for example how metroidvania is a terrible term, but then the authors either have no proposal or even worse names

Deep down inside, it's vanity. People want to be remembered for something, even when it's something as insignificant as inventing a made-up term for an obscure videogame subgenre introduced 35 years after the games themselves.

Like those fags who are forcing the "dungeon synth" meme.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I propose the term FPGBRWYMaaB(First Person Grid Based RPG Where You Move as a Blob)
Rolls right off the tongue

 

[Dramart]

You're very autistic, there are just four simple subgenres based on combat:
-Turn based
-RTwP
-Action RPG
-Tactical RPG

 

[Lord_Potato]

Gridder (never heard the term before) is also not a subgenre. It's just a term that describes movement, usually in 1st person RPGs (blobbers or single character ones, like Quest).

Literally made up by a person who hates the term blobber and went to various forums to put blobber down and tried to put gridder forward as an alternative, has a curator on Steam that uses this term exclusively (though others have joined in now, that still hasn't lead to the widespread adoption of the term)

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/188485/gridders-delving-dungeons-one-step-at-a-time

Man of the Waves
Good ol' blobbers. (I only learned about that term recently)

Raggie
Yeah, I hate that term with a passion so I prefer calling them gridders instead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/220-rpgs-role-playing-games/68844659

Davzz
Never heard of gridders before.

SadFerret
If you don't like the word gridder, you can always go back to that other term some people have been using and call them blobbers if you prefer. :-P

(Please don't. I want that word die in a fire. It also makes you sound like an idiot.)

This genre needs a name. "First-person grid-based RPGs" is too long to use, it's a sentence and not a name. "Blobber" sounds stupid and you know a name doesn't work when you have to explain why it's called that. Let us use the word gridder! It's short, it's easy to remember, and it says something about the genre.

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

 

[Grauken]

Gridder (never heard the term before) is also not a subgenre. It's just a term that describes movement, usually in 1st person RPGs (blobbers or single character ones, like Quest).

Literally made up by a person who hates the term blobber and went to various forums to put blobber down and tried to put gridder forward as an alternative, has a curator on Steam that uses this term exclusively (though others have joined in now, that still hasn't lead to the widespread adoption of the term)

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/188485/gridders-delving-dungeons-one-step-at-a-time

Man of the Waves
Good ol' blobbers. (I only learned about that term recently)

Raggie
Yeah, I hate that term with a passion so I prefer calling them gridders instead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/220-rpgs-role-playing-games/68844659

Davzz
Never heard of gridders before.

SadFerret
If you don't like the word gridder, you can always go back to that other term some people have been using and call them blobbers if you prefer. :-P

(Please don't. I want that word die in a fire. It also makes you sound like an idiot.)

This genre needs a name. "First-person grid-based RPGs" is too long to use, it's a sentence and not a name. "Blobber" sounds stupid and you know a name doesn't work when you have to explain why it's called that. Let us use the word gridder! It's short, it's easy to remember, and it says something about the genre.

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

All the Realms of Arkania games switch to isometric tactical combat, a bit like a modernized Goldbox game, I think that was Mondblut hinting at

 

[Lord_Potato]

He was talking about "gridders" and games that don't fit move-by-grid criterium. In the same sentence he mentioned Ravenloft, a blobber with continuous (non-grid) movement. That's why IMO Shadows over Riva, another blobber with continuous movement is a better example. Star Trail still used grid movement, although added animations.

 

[V_K]

Gridder (never heard the term before) is also not a subgenre. It's just a term that describes movement, usually in 1st person RPGs (blobbers or single character ones, like Quest).

Literally made up by a person who hates the term blobber and went to various forums to put blobber down and tried to put gridder forward as an alternative, has a curator on Steam that uses this term exclusively (though others have joined in now, that still hasn't lead to the widespread adoption of the term)

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/188485/gridders-delving-dungeons-one-step-at-a-time

Man of the Waves
Good ol' blobbers. (I only learned about that term recently)

Raggie
Yeah, I hate that term with a passion so I prefer calling them gridders instead.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/220-rpgs-role-playing-games/68844659

Davzz
Never heard of gridders before.

SadFerret
If you don't like the word gridder, you can always go back to that other term some people have been using and call them blobbers if you prefer. :-P

(Please don't. I want that word die in a fire. It also makes you sound like an idiot.)

This genre needs a name. "First-person grid-based RPGs" is too long to use, it's a sentence and not a name. "Blobber" sounds stupid and you know a name doesn't work when you have to explain why it's called that. Let us use the word gridder! It's short, it's easy to remember, and it says something about the genre.

How do these people find inner peace when the games such as Ravenloft and Star Trail exist? Do they drown their cognitive dissonance in cheap booze, like we do when we think of single-character blobbers like Anvil of Dawn and Dungeon Hack?

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

All the Realms of Arkania games switch to isometric tactical combat, a bit like a modernized Goldbox game, I think that was Mondblut hinting at

Star Trail has both free and grid-based movement, you can switch in the options. Free movement is janky, apparently adapted from a racing game because of how you "understeer" when turning - which is why people rarely use it. But there's one chest in the game that you can only get to in free movement.

Basically, if there's nowhere to return to from a dungeon to recuperate and get your next task, you're in a dungeon crawler, no matter what it looks like.

If your definition disqualifies the original Wizardry and its direct copycats, your definition is wrong.

Meh. Wizardry's city is as much a city as Dark Soul's campfire: it's not an area you can stay in or explore and you don't get quests there. Mechanically it's just a "special square".

 

[mondblut]

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

Star Trail had both, and so did Ravenloft. That's the point I am making. You can grid, and you can offgrid, so, uh, duh, what kind of subgenre that is?

 

[Grauken]

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

Star Trail had both, and so did Ravenloft.

I forgot about the free movement in Ravenloft because it was so shit

 

[mondblut]

Meh. Wizardry's city is as much a city as Dark Soul's campfire: it's not an area you can stay in or explore and you don't get quests there. Mechanically it's just a "special square".

Wizardry clones, like Demise or japanese crap, do hand quests in the city.

 

[Grauken]

Meh. Wizardry's city is as much a city as Dark Soul's campfire: it's not an area you can stay in or explore and you don't get quests there. Mechanically it's just a "special square".

Wizardry clones, like Demise or japanese crap, do hand quests in the city.

Demise is not a Wizardry clone, it and Mordor are Avatar clones

 

[mondblut]

Demise is not a Wizardry clone, it and Mordor are Avatar clones

You don't have to play it as an e-thot, it is perfectly playable offline.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I think Star Trail still had grid movement, alas an animated one, like in Lands of Lore 1. It was Shadows over Riva that introduced free movement to Realms of Arkania series.

Star Trail had both, and so did Ravenloft. That's the point I am making. You can grid, and you can offgrid, so, uh, duh, what kind of subgenre that is?

why would someone willingly not use the grid?

 

[Grauken]

Demise is not a Wizardry clone, it and Mordor are Avatar clones

You don't have to play it as an e-thot, it is perfectly playable offline.

The point being that Demise is very different from Wizardry in how it works

 

[mondblut]

Demise is not a Wizardry clone, it and Mordor are Avatar clones

You don't have to play it as an e-thot, it is perfectly playable offline.

The point being that Demise is very different from Wizardry in how it works

Insofar as Wizardry itself was extremely influenced by those ancient PLATO games, Demise is firmly a dungeon crawl.

 

[PaquoCastor]

I was pretty sure that DRPG meant both Wizardry and Rogue, so I searched for an official website of a Mystery Dungeon game. I found that the website for the Pokemon remake states that the game is a ダンジョンRPG. So games like Baroque and Labyrinth of Touhou would be DRPGs too.

Why shouldn't gridder also refer to Rogue? Just because most roguelikes don't have facing, or is it that early blobbers are intended for amateur cartographers? Either way I'm going to start calling Eschalon a gridder.

Diablo clones are now called hack and slash (not to be confused for the term for specific beat 'em ups) and are also considered dungeon crawlers.

The problem with the term dungeon crawler is that it is just too broad and ambiguous. One can argue that Doom is a dungeon crawler, especially if we agree with Wikipedia in that Gauntlet is a dungeon crawler. At least Catacomb 3-D would be one, since Catacomb is just Carmack's Gauntlet. But we can just refer to dungeon crawler rpgs, but that still includes blobbers, roguelikes, hack and slashes, and even other games like Arena, Amulets & Armor, and Ultima Underworld.

Having all these terms is not great for readability, but it is great for constructing Euler diagrams. Which is the English way thanks to copious near-synonyms.

Also, I hate that crpg in common parlance means isometric rpgs now (more specifically Fallout or Baldur's Gate in some circles.) Wizardry 8 is a crpg dammit!

 

[Chris Koźmik]

About cRPG, so is it "Computer RPG" or "Classic RPG"? Because I have seen it used both ways... Also I noticed some use it for isometric RPGs?

 

[Joseph Stalin]

You also forgot NTRPGs.

 

[Chris Koźmik]

I wonder how to call this broad category of RPGs: It's first person (movement, combat not necessarily), grid movement primarily but free movement is OK as well, blobber usually but a "single character blobber" as some call it is OK too, western RPG, dungeon crawler?

Examples
Included: GoldBox, Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, Ishar, Wizardry, M&M, Menzoberranzan.
Excluded: Baldurs Gate, Ultima (except Akalabeth), Fallout.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The Gold Box games are generally excluded from the blobber subgenres due to their tactical combat, but Dungeon Master is the founder of the "real-time blobber" subgenre, Eye of the Beholder and Ishar are both Dungeon Master-likes, Wizardry is the founder of the "turn-based blobber" subgenre, and Might & Magic is a Wizardry-like. It seems you want to expand the term "blobber" to include any RPG with both a first-person perspective for exploration and a party rather than a single character.

 

[Chris Koźmik]

The Gold Box games are generally excluded from the blobber subgenres due to their tactical combat, but Dungeon Master is the founder of the "real-time blobber" subgenre, Eye of the Beholder and Ishar are both Dungeon Master-likes, Wizardry is the founder of the "turn-based blobber" subgenre, and Might & Magic is a Wizardry-like. It seems you want to expand the term "blobber" to include any RPG with both a first-person perspective for exploration and a party rather than a single character.

I wanted to find some broader category, something that would encompass all the oldish RPGs I like the most So far "First person western dungeon crawlers" is the only one that comes to my mind.

 

[Chris Koźmik]

Interesting categorization of "sub-genres": https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Category:RPG#Sub-genres

(BTW, if you find any interesting categorization of various RPG terms, please drop the link)