Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[RK47]

Can someone list some buff spells that will affect Animate dead skeletons if the Sorcerer caster takes up Undead Bloodline?
I'm trying to choose between Jaethal Herald Caller or Sorcerer (Undead Bloodline)

Which one do you think has better potential?

 

[gurugeorge]

OK, I've played enough with the game as-is (+QOL mods), I've bitten the bullet and gotten CoTW and Proper Flanking 2 installed, as well as Favoured Class and holic's AI mod. I temporarily installed an earlier version of CoTW a while back and had a bit of fun with a witch merc, and I'm now curious about the incredible amount of choices this combo makes available. I'd love to have some of the stuff from Eldritch Arcana too (I seem to remember it had some neat things), but it doesn't play with CoTW any more (and Favoured class does a lot of the same things re. extra Traits anyway, which was one of the best things about EA).

(Btw, my thoughts on Owlcat's TB implementation - very nice, more polished and "solid"-feeling than hsinyucuan's in terms of graphics and audio fx, and certainly functional. It's missing a lot of niceties that hsinyucuan's mod had, but I never used them so I'm not missing them, meanwhile it adds a dotted "path," which is actually very useful, especially for setting up proper flanking.)

ATM just playing around with a Sensei main - great class for a main btw, especially if you're sick to death of Linzi's piping voice But even just the flanking mod and the AI mod together make the game feel quite different (the AI mod makes a bee line for your caster/cleric/bard quite often, without it being so often that it's irritating). Quite a bit richer tactically, which goes well with turn-based shenanigans (and ofc total camera control from Bag of Tricks).

But I haven't yet started a specific CoTW character.

Any favourite CoTW builds out there?

 

[LannTheStupid]

Modding is cheating.

Even "QoL" modding is cheating to some extent. I know only one QoL mod that could be considered as some kind of rebalance.

 

[NJClaw]

Modding is cheating.

Even "QoL" modding is cheating to some extent. I know only one QoL mod that could be considered as some kind of rebalance.

 

[Technomancer]

Can someone list some buff spells that will affect Animate dead skeletons if the Sorcerer caster takes up Undead Bloodline?

I don't think that you can buff your summons? Buffs work only on unique item summoned creatures. For skeletons you can use the stuff that enchants their weapons. For other summons there are rings.

 

[gurugeorge]

Modding is cheating.

Even "QoL" modding is cheating to some extent. I know only one QoL mod that could be considered as some kind of rebalance.

You mean "couldn't?"

I understand what you're saying - e.g. often the constraints developers set on inputs is felt by them to be part of the gameplay. But that aspect of gameplay is usually just developer autism, and it's usually easy to understand what types of constraints are and aren't genuinely part of the gameplay.

(The extreme of it in my experience is some Asian and French developers who force you to use their control scheme as if they're fucking auteurs of some kind. It's just dumb and puts some people off the game. There's nothing wrong with allowing transferable muscle memory from one game to another - games aren't all that different in terms of the possible kinds of inputs you can have.)

 

[RK47]

Can someone list some buff spells that will affect Animate dead skeletons if the Sorcerer caster takes up Undead Bloodline?

I don't think that you can buff your summons? Buffs work only on unique item summoned creatures. For skeletons you can use the stuff that enchants their weapons. For other summons there are rings.

Alchemists Haste Infusion works. So does mass Ironskins.

 

[Desiderius]

Looking like mass buffs all working, even Freebooter's Bond. I'll have to replay Varnhold to see if it works now.

 

[Desiderius]

Off to rescue Amiri, which means no Freebooter and fighting big groups on Unfair. Let's see how it goes.

So Val finally made it to Smilodon form, but doesn't get Animal Growth or Smilodon inherent bonuses like her pet. Pounce is still really good, especially on a tank with Mirror Image. Octavia will be able to cast Legendary Proportions on her next level and she'll eventually cast Frightful Aspect on herself and she'll really take off. Also Linzi's song isn't on yet so missing circumstance bonus. Pounce means a lot of flat-footed even without Shatter Defenses, and Aspect of Wolf gives a swift Trip along with the Trip Cloak bite.

Val also picked up full Barkskin duty this level so MC Grenadier could get Blur on all melee. Val Feyspeaker = two pouncing tanks with high AC and Illusion protection.

Now that you can't stack Bard songs I've got Linzi doing a Dazzling Display while keeping Courage up. Her Persuasion is high enough to land it consistently although since it is a Full Round Action sometimes it is too late.

Brought Ekun along to keep from getting outnumbered and to use Devourer to take out key targets while MC was bombing. He's got the Deadly Aim hat but I forgot to put it on. Enlarge + Hurricane Bow + Aspect of Falcon + Devourer lays down some hurt.

Sometimes the Bear gets you. With all these charging tanks I was able to keep a lot of the fragile Brevoy soldiers alive even on Unfair so each fight got easier.

This Linzi is built for maximum DC on Enchantments (Ring of Reckless Courage, etc...) and you can see it paying off here by taking out some dangerous archers and a cleric.

I meant to bring Kalikke for Whirlwind Bull Rushes but I stupidly retrained her without Weapon Finesse thinking she'd use CON for AB. She does for CM but the Blade is default STR for AB. So had to switch to Kanerah who did mostly strategic Blinds with Flash Infusion. Decent DC. She also brought Celerity to get her Burn up.

You can see here how good Confusion (Barb archer shooting another Barb) is but how bad Wall form is for group play or this map in general. My whole army ended up roasting themselves on Kanerah's wall so I reloaded. Was thinking she had Eruption which would have been great with Flash Infusion.

Linzi using her enchantment skills to maximum effect this time through. That Giant ended up working over those adds at the top nicely.

Harrim using his bonus vs. Giants to good effect again. Tristian not available at this point anyway. If he switched to the melee Buckler and fought defensively he could get over 50 AC. Can see here Banshee Blast about to fire.

Necro relic Cloak getting his Necromancy DC up nicely and no place like the front lines for a cone spell and... The Giant rolls a 20. You can see that the Bear and that other Barb weren't so lucky.

Cleric abandons his summons to run and you can see Kanerah getting to ready to lay down a wall of fire for them to run into. Harrim followed up with a Fear and the Giant roasted itself too.

So a little on the easy side but a lot of cool effects to try out and enjoy.

 

[serf]

Probably the most powerful CotW build is wizard archetype stacking, namely Scroll Savant + Exploiter Wizard.
Such combo cancels weaknesses of both archetypes, which are weak early game for scroll savant and lack of bonus spells for exploiter.
This combo is impossible in tt, but here in PFK (scroll savant is kinda homebrewed by Owlcat) I can't think of anything with more raw power and flexibility at every level.
I also like the concept of a reach caster. It works best for 3/4 bab full progression casters like cleric or oracle, Eldritch Knight can make it work too (in theory).
Basically reach caster is casting spells at his turn and collects AoO with reach weapon when it's enemy turn. Very simple but amazing action economy.
With the proper flaking mod, when performing AoO it is possible to use combat manoeuvre (trip, disarm, sunder) in place of attack, so reach defender+full caster that is specialized on combat manoeuvres (battle mystery/spirit oracle/shaman or EK with knowledge is power discovery) is a wonky but very effective build.

 

[Desiderius]

CMs are the name of the game in CotW. Dirty Fighting so any toon can get them. Two new subtypes that specialize in Dirty Tricks, even a feat to make DT replace an attack instead of Standard Action. INT to CMB feat. Has it all.

 

[RK47]

What does the Thundercaller lose compared to regular Bard?
Thinking of replacing Linzi with a Human merc for extra feats.

 

[Yosharian]

Dirge of Doom, Inspire Competence

 

[RK47]

Dirge of Doom, Inspire Competence

I'm thinking of ...Tristian Cleric3/Thundercaller5/MysticTheurge
Why?
Because

 

[serf]

Mystic theurge is a cool idea but unfortunately in practice MT is a trap.
Not enough feats are implemented even in modded PFK to support this class.
If you want to combine cleric with bard there is evangelist cleric archetype, and in general it's not optimal to build mystic theurge from classes that trade full spellcasting for class features, because you can't progress them with MT.

 

[Desiderius]

What does the Thundercaller lose compared to regular Bard?
Thinking of replacing Linzi with a Human merc for extra feats.

Mercs suck. It’s one feat and you lose the free Perception and AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Bards are poor Multiclassers.

MT can work as long as you don’t have to beat saves or penetrate resistance.

 

[Desiderius]

Thundercaller got worse since you have to turn off Courage to spam your Sonic Burst thingie now. If you want that effect (stun is good) just cast it. Clerics get it too.

Inspire Competence is such a timesaver.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

serf Desiderius is correct about MT. They can work, but only with each class being a full caster. Bards are a particularly poor choice, as they are a class with a high degree of class features which are lost when going MT.

I almost considered making Tristian a MT so I could eliminate Octavia from my current line-up. Arcane magic can be useful in KM, but is generally not essential on Hard and Challenging difficulties. The metamagic rods are also plentiful and relatively cheap, so having lower duration buffs can be readily overcome. I ultimately didn't want to lose out on Channel Divinity. I may reconsider and try it later in the game though. Jubilost really starts to become useful around Level 10.

 

[Desiderius]

Channel is fine, but it’s the four levels of caster level and losing Touch of Good which really hurts.

 

[Sykar]

Bards are poor Multiclassers.

MT can work as long as you don’t have to beat saves or penetrate resistance.

So summoner type like Conjurer/Druid might work well enough?

 

[serf]

Feyspeaker druid + sorceror (fey bloodline) is thematically appropriate and they both use charisma to cast, so your spell DC is going to be good.
But it's level 9 to start with MT.
In the same vein but better is an empyreal sorcerer + cleric.

 

[Desiderius]

Bards are poor Multiclassers.

MT can work as long as you don’t have to beat saves or penetrate resistance.

So summoner type like Conjurer/Druid might work well enough?

Roahin built a nuker that seemed to work well since you get so many more nukes and don't care all that much about saves since AoE and they still take damage unless they have Evasion.

I built an Eldritch Scion 4/Ecc7/MT9* melee Tristian that was OK but struggled to do a lot of damage because you need the big enlarging spells and it took awhile to get to them. Tanked great with Image and the like. The Eldrtich Archer version was kind of shitty with base INT of 10 but it was fun spellstriking with Staff Slings. There's a Giant Bane one you can use for VTomb. At the end of the day none of that really plays to Tristian's strengths so now I just go straight up Cleric and let him do damage with Fauchard AoOs while casting with high DCs and Spell Pen on hard fights and wading in there and wacking away on the rest.

The whole idea was to get touch spells like Bestow Curse or SpitVenom into the Scion/Archer spellbook so you could Spellstrike with them and that ended up not working.

 

[Desiderius]

Bards are poor Multiclassers.

MT can work as long as you don’t have to beat saves or penetrate resistance.

So summoner type like Conjurer/Druid might work well enough?

Druids are already great Summoner/Conjurers. Could be fun to try. You can buff out of one spellbook and cast from the other.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Channel is fine, but it’s the four levels of caster level and losing Touch of Good which really hurts.

Touch of Good is cool when you NEED to unlock that chest, or land that CM on an enraged owl-bear. I just don't find myself relying on it that much. The lower level long duration buffs and restorative spells are my most useful. With two extend rods as soon as Act 2 hits, my important buffs last as long as I need them to, with enough left over for important spells like remove paralysis, lesser restoration, etc. in case I need them. Otherwise they get converted. The loss of the higher levels spells wouldn't really impact me that much. When I was running Jaethal as a cleric, many of her higher level spells never got used unless it was something that got metamagic'ed onto that tier. What my melee oriented party does encounter, are routine scratches that add up. Channel Divinity dramatically extends my adventuring day in a way that MT would not. Once I have more uber loot that the game starts throwing at you by the end of Troll Trouble, and Linzi is further leveled, MT might be an acceptable trade off to still get some key Arcane spells while getting to take along Jubilost. The more I type, the more I think it will be worth the respec.