A system for a medieval campaign

[Omicron]

For quite some while I have wanted to run some sort of late medieval campaign, much akin to Darklands, for example. I'd also like to run a more roleplay oriented game, and for the combat that does happen, to resolve a suitably fast and possibly brutal manner.

Unfortunately, I lack a system to run it with, being familiar with only the Warhammer 40K RP system and Pathfinder/3,5.

I have very briefly looked into GURPS, but I am unsure as to what optional rules and supplements I should use or if it maybe has to much rules for what I want to do with it. I'd also appreciate some help to, you know, convince my players to actually play, instead of crying aloud that they are not mathematicians.

Would any of you have any tips or suggestions?

 

[Alchemist]

GURPS can be quite crunchy with rules but perhaps Grunker can advise you in that area, as far as supplements, etc...

Runequest might be a good fit. My GM is planning a gritty, lethal, low-magic late-medieval / early renaissance campaign based in Germany (sounds very Darklands-esque actually), and he's planning to use Runequest. I haven't played RQ yet but it's based on a similar system to Call of Cthulhu (aka the Basic Role-Playing system, or BRP for short) which I have played. Combat is fast and deadly in that system, and it's very good for roleplaying.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I have wanted to run some sort of late medieval campaign, much akin to Darklands

Warhammer Fantasy is your friend. Best friend, probably.

 

[Excidium]

I'd also like to run a more roleplay oriented game, and for the combat that does happen, to resolve a suitably fast and possibly brutal manner.

This seems to describe The Riddle of Steel perfectly. It's out of print though, but here's a scan for you to check and see if it's to your liking.

 

[Omicron]

Thanks, I'll look into those.

 

[Grunker]

For a "realistic" medieval campaign with a few supernatural elements, GURPS is your man for sure. However, if this

I'd also like to run a more roleplay oriented game, and for the combat that does happen, to resolve a suitably fast and possibly brutal manner.

is what you're after, I would recommend using the full breadth of GURPS rules, except just handle combat via a few rolls and descriptions. I've handled many GURPS campaigns like that. Most of the character creation you do in GURPS is wholly roleplay-focused, determining your character's personality and skillset. In combat, just waive the complex stuff and let the players roll to hit/to damage, with you judging whether they can reach opponents and describing the battle field and such. I don't know The Riddle of Steel that well, but Excidium could be right as well.

As for GURPS stuff:

You need nothing else than the basic set. Supplements that could be highly relevant are GURPS: Magic, GURPS: Thaumatology. Maybe some of the Dungeon Fantasy books. There's a Dungeon Fantasy about Clerics that might be relevant in a setting where faith matters, but generally, you're pretty well off with just Basic Set and Magic. These rules will provide you with gritty, realistic-ish mechanics. They are certainly surperior to Pathfinder or Warhammer: Fantasy when it comes to the kind of game you're describing.

I'd also appreciate some help to, you know, convince my players to actually play, instead of crying aloud that they are not mathematicians.

This, I cannot help you with. No good game will come out of GM and players with different expectations and fundamental wants. The only thing I can urge you to is have a honest talk about expectations with your players. If they are half-way adult, they will accept that you're the one doing most of the work, and they will have preferences within the frame you give them. However, if they simply refuse using, for example, GURPS, there is little you can do. Starting the game with them fighting against the very concept of the game means the game won't ever prosper.

 

[Omicron]

You need nothing else than the basic set. Supplements that could be highly relevant are GURPS: Magic, GURPS: Thaumatology. Maybe some of the Dungeon Fantasy books. There's a Dungeon Fantasy about Clerics that might be relevant in a setting where faith matters, but generally, you're pretty well off with just Basic Set and Magic. These rules will provide you with gritty, realistic-ish mechanics. They are certainly surperior to Pathfinder or Warhammer: Fantasy when it comes to the kind of game you're describing.

Thanks for the info! I'll give it a look.

This, I cannot help you with. No good game will come out of GM and players with different expectations and fundamental wants. The only thing I can urge you to is have a honest talk about expectations with your players. If they are half-way adult, they will accept that you're the one doing most of the work, and they will have preferences within the frame you give them. However, if they simply refuse using, for example, GURPS, there is little you can do. Starting the game with them fighting against the very concept of the game means the game won't ever prosper.

I fully understand that, and the concept of a 'gritty' or 'realistic' game in a medieval setting is something they most definitely would want to play, whether as bandits or as part of mercenary company, some of them view learning a new system as a great investment of time and energy, and rightfully so. And as the system would be new for me as well, it would be harder for me to guide them trough character creation if needed, and I'd rather not want the game to get bogged down right at the start. But that is more of a thing I will have to solve with learning things well in advance.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Yeah, just the GURPS basic set could be enough. And combat is not that complicated to work out. Roll attack, if you hit opponent rolls defence, if his defence fails roll damage, reduce it by armor and modify result by weapon type. That's the basics anyway.

As for convincing players to play it, well what worked for me when I first encountered GURPS was to just try to build a character. If they like the way they can finely detail their characters with stats, skills and (most interesting) advantages and disadvantages, I don't think there would be problems with running the game. If not then it's probably not worth it.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah, just the GURPS basic set could be enough. And combat is not that complicated to work out. Roll attack, if you hit opponent rolls defence, if his defence fails roll damage, reduce it by armor and modify result by weapon type. That's the basics anyway.

That's what I meant, basically. If you're going for non-tactical, non-time consuming combat, just use basic to hit rolls and active defenses and run with it. GURPS is almost always time-consuming during character creation, but during play it can almost be non-existing if you want it to. Of course, once a player starts delving into the magic system he might want more complexity because he wants to use the rules.

 

[Alchemist]

Man, I wish people would play GURPS around where I live - it seems pretty rare. I think I've played all of 4 GURPS sessions in my entire 30+ year gaming career. I guess I should start my own campaign with it someday. I like how versatile the system and character building are.

 

[Omicron]

Hey, if I get the spare time to run a game, I could run run a game for at the codex, if you'd like that.

 

[Ninjerk]

My cousin used to try to get me to play GURPS (at the time I was drifting away from PnP). I admit hearing people talk about it around here (and Vampire) has made me want to play.

 

[Grunker]

It's a great system that can do almost anything you want it to do. That also means your experience with it will vary wildly dependending on how you use it however

 

[Zero Credibility]

Hey, if I get the spare time to run a game, I could run run a game for at the codex, if you'd like that.

Well, if you do get to run one here, sign me up. It's next to impossible to find somebody to play where I am.

 

[Omicron]

Hey, if I get the spare time to run a game, I could run run a game for at the codex, if you'd like that.

Well, if you do get to run one here, sign me up. It's next to impossible to find somebody to play where I am.

Of course, not sure when I would get to it , but I'll definitely keep it in mind.

 

[Elim]

GURPS
GURPS with Martial Arts is just awesome. Hacking someone in the leg? You go down. It's over for you if you are a melee.
But GURPS character creation just plain sucks, it's too hard for newer players. You can't just say "here, make a character!" and giving them templates is bad, too.
Because where is the point of RPGs if you can't create your own character?
This means you can't kill them while playing, or they are out for good.

And don't forget this:
GURPS is not a finished system, do not pick it up and play. Oh boy, you are not ready for a long time. You make your own system out of GURPS, you use the rules you like. Want to play a '30 detective campaign?
No damn reason to use the "Tactical Shooting" book or "Martial Arts", it will slow things down and nobody will give a fuck about these extra rules.
GURPS really needs a pretty good GM to handle it well.

I always recommend this way of getting into GURPS:
1. Start with Lite. Which is all you need.
2. Add stuff from the basic books.
3. Add some stuff from different books, like Martial Arts if you want more melee.
4. Play.

If you and your players love war-games or more tactical play, GURPS is for you.
And don't forget, always cap stuff. Humans in a realistic setting with more than 15 or 16 DEX?
No.


Runequest
I would use something fast for "medieval" stuff, something like Runequest 6, which has a fairly brutal combat system. And it's setting neutral, which is a big plus.
One or two hits knocks you out and character creation is easy as hell.
It's mostly looking at tables and combining two stats to get a new number.

It even has different size categories for weapons. Want to block a two handed sword with a buckler?
Nope, that doesn't work. Weapon breakage and so on is all included. You will see a change in the "murderhobo" behavior of your players, when you play it.
It's much faster than GURPS if you know the rules. And it doesn't cost as much. It's my go-to system for fantasy/medieval stuff.

 

[Grunker]

But GURPS character creation just plain sucks, it's too hard for newer players.

It is not hard. If you push the basic set in their face and say "GO MAKE CHAR", sure, but who does that?

A good GM, with a new systems, takes care of the nitty gritty. The players start with attributes, then go to adv/disadv, then pick skills. Easy as fucking pie. Everything else is worked out.

Does it take time? Yes, there is a bunch of shit to pick and choose from. Is it hard? Fucking no.

And don't forget this:
GURPS is not a finished system, do not pick it up and play. Oh boy, you are not ready for a long time. You make your own system out of GURPS, you use the rules you like. Want to play a '30 detective campaign?
No damn reason to use the "Tactical Shooting" book or "Martial Arts", it will slow things down and nobody will give a fuck about these extra rules.
GURPS really needs a pretty good GM to handle it well.

faggot who tried to run GURPS completely RAW and failed detected

If you run with the stuff your players picked for their characters, use only basic statistics for NPCs and resolve combat without a tactical map and a huge focus on getting every details right, GURPS is easily runnable.

Of course the GM needs to know precisely how he's going to run his game. But he does not need to run every single rule in GURPS to the letter. The very point of GURPS is that it "builds up to as much complexity as you'd like."

Even I, as a GURPS vet, do use even half of the tactical combat options.

I always recommend this way of getting into GURPS:
1. Start with Lite. Which is all you need.
2. Add stuff from the basic books.
3. Add some stuff from different books, like Martial Arts if you want more melee.
4. Play.

Lite sucks unless you like playing with really basic systems, in which case it's great, but Savage Worlds will proably also be OK for you. Using just basic rules from Basic Set: Characters is just fine.

also: I am completely shit-faced so if I wrote anything complete insulting or deeply idiotic (or if I misunderstood you entirely) I apologize. I promise to veil my insults more thouroughly when I sober up.

 

[Alchemist]

Hey, if I get the spare time to run a game, I could run run a game for at the codex, if you'd like that.

Well, if you do get to run one here, sign me up. It's next to impossible to find somebody to play where I am.

Of course, not sure when I would get to it , but I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Yeah I'd totally be up for that too.

 

[Elim]

Heh read my post again when you are sober, i think you misread everything.

And just to say one thing again.
I said that you do not pick up GURPS and play it RAW. This is the biggest failures new players make.
And this is always the number 1 reason why new players and GMs whine about GURPS.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Try a system specialised in that stuff made by a guy that practices medieval martial arts.

Here's all you need:
rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/75133/Codex-Martialis-CORE-RULES-V-23
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/86214/Codex-Guide-to-the-Medieval-Baltic
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produ...s-of-the-Ancient-World---Part-1-Melee-Weapons
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produ...cient-World-Part-II-Armor-and-Missile-Weapons

 

[Stella Brando]

Hey, if I get the spare time to run a game, I could run run a game for at the codex, if you'd like that.

I think the time has come.

Let's do it.

 

[catfood]

There's an OSR book called Lion & Dragon which allegedly attempts to offer a more grounded medieval system for DND. I've downloaded the pdf but haven't fully read it yet, but as far as I've skimmed through it it seems to be pretty good, at least theme-wise.