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Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
PoR is probably the most tight of the Gold Box games, but you've got to enjoy approaching it as a tactical experience. Expecting an Infinity engine rest -> spaz -> rest style of game play will certainly leave you let down. Gold Box is much closer to actual Tabletop.
I hate rest spamming and don't do it in other D&D games, but it's the only sane way to get through PoR.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
694
Pool of Radiance was way, WAY ahead of its time. It was one of the first, if not the first, game to allow you to play as transgenders characters:

transgender-1.png


transgender-2.png


transgender-3.png

extremely progressive for 1988.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
What the fuck are you doing with those names?
My character names? In order to keep things easy for myself I named them by role, so fighter, fighter/cleric, fighter/mage/thief, and two fighter/mages.
I understand the meaning of the letters, just not why you would name them such hideous things. Are you disabled? If you are, I will apologize immediately. If not, I will continue to admonish you.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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I tried to play the DOS version years ago but couldn't get past the blob-movement with the tiny window. Fortunately the NES port has a nice big window right in the center of the screen, which made it a bit more palatable.

ugDYwn5.png


Sure, it comes with its share of dumbing down/streamlining. I couldn't make my own characters; I had to choose from a lengthy list (you still roll stats though) and only up to five. I find the removal of ammo management and the integration of journal entries into the game itself a plus. I didn't get two attacks per round with bows like the rules say I should, but I can't remember if this was a feature in original Pool of Radiance or not, and I can't be bothered to reinstall, roll new characters, buy bows and arrows, and get into a fight to test it out.

Unfortunately the port did not improve the experience by including the Fix command. The interface is as clunky as ever when it comes to buying and selling equipment, training characters, memorizing spells, etc. I was also annoyed by how equipment stats aren't viewable in the game itself, but I managed with my metaknowledge of AD&D.

On the subject of metaknowledge, it would be obnoxious to go through this without looking at maps from a guide, particularly when it comes to quests where you have to clear out a map of all enemies. So much step by step walking, so much mandatory backtracking.

The incredibly miss-heavy combat at the beginning demands the constant use of sleep to Win just to make it tolerable. This results in a massively degenerate fight/rest cycle. Additionally, while "random encounters will disappear after you kill a fixed amount" sounds good on paper, this also encourages a degenerate playstyle of intentionally triggering them (I found out accidentally that leaving search mode on makes them far more likely because moving to a new square takes ten minutes instead of one) and then backing off to a safe area to rest.

It's utterly absurd how you can pay just 5 gold to fix yourself up to your heart's content at an inn (when you're not resting outside for free) but a single casting of cure light wounds at a temple costs 100 gold (!!!!!!!!). Phlan needs a Jesus figure to come down to the temple to take on the money-changers, these guys are ripping everyone off.

It's also lousy how being poisoned makes you incapacitated and the only thing you can do is drag the character to a temple and pay 1000 to cure it. Though of course I didn't do that, I just reloaded. It's also a drag how there's no way to buy any kind of potions or spells; furthermore, potions don't stack, and each character can only have 8 items in their inventory (including the stuff they're wearing) so an inventory can get filled up quickly.

As for combat content, let me put it this way: out of the 24 mandatory fights you have to go through to clear the slums, only two provided a challenge. That's a terrible ratio. The other areas I cleared had far fewer battles, but they also weren't providing enough of interest. There were just two more battles I liked in the rest of what I played (which was clearing Sokal Keep and the library, and eavesdropping on an auction which didn't involve combat at all but wasn't particularly interesting). The most I can say in its favor is that I like how enemies will surrender when it's clear the battle is lost (when can this feature come back?).

a2F0Spy.png

Typical PoR encounter design right here.

I don't see the point in playing any further, I imagine the combat and backtracking are only going to get more obnoxious. Perhaps there may be an area or areas later on that will lock you in to prevent degenerate resting, but who cares? Scorpia was correct to call this a boring meat grinder. The crpgers of the 80s and early 90s must have been hard up to play anything resembling a role playing game to tolerate all of this and all the other same-engine clones. The potential was there, but it appears as though no one actually did anything with it. "Strategic" indeed.

Git gud
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
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Messages
892
More generally, I loved Pool if Radiance but wish it did not have level scaling encounters. Running into 40 kobolds is fun as a scripted fight, but not as a random encounter in a place you previously encountered 8.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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So am I. Does your comfort behavior include using job based names in every game you play?
Not every game, but party-based games, yes. Can't be bothered to memorize who has what role, I need my brain for other things.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Not every game, but party-based games, yes. Can't be bothered to memorize who has what role, I need my brain for other things.
Then I apologize sincerely. I hope your time with Pool of Radiance improves greatly, and wish you the best.
 

octavius

Arcane
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More generally, I loved Pool if Radiance but wish it did not have level scaling encounters. Running into 40 kobolds is fun as a scripted fight, but not as a random encounter in a place you previously encountered 8.

They are not level scaled, but scaled to your stats. Give your guys 18 in all stats and you'll face larger groups of enemies.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
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More generally, I loved Pool if Radiance but wish it did not have level scaling encounters. Running into 40 kobolds is fun as a scripted fight, but not as a random encounter in a place you previously encountered 8.

They are not level scaled, but scaled to your stats. Give your guys 18 in all stats and you'll face larger groups of enemies.
Gear too. Its fun to tinker with on PC to see what encounters get thrown at you. The GBC (gold box companion) is a fun way to go for testing. Im not sure if there if an invincibility GOD mode though. Plus Monk and Ranger and shit to try in POR.. HELL YEAH!
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,873
I was going to gift the cert but the timer is longer than redeeming. There was that and me accidently redeeming click as my phone was being stupid. Other titles are all on sale though.
 

Null Null

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
542
I'd argue if you want to make POR pass faster, you need a weaker party. The game scales encounters in the Slums, Kuto's Well, Podol Plaza, the wilderness, Valhingen Graveyard, and a few other areas scale to party strength, so maxing out everything can get you in trouble. (In particular packing your party with mages will cause encounter sizes to balloon. Also it starts increasing the sizes with ACs below 0. The full equation is in Stephen S. Lee's FAQ.)

As an aside, one option if you can't bother to remember who does what is to append a code to the end of the name; thus Silverleaf FM=fighter/mage, Sean C=cleric. You can also color-code their combat icons--blue=mage, red=fighter, green=cleric for instance. (You can even use secondary colors for mixed classes, so fighter/mages are purple.)

You can also give them suggestive titles: 'Brother', 'Father' for clerics, 'Sneaky', 'Roguish' for thieves, and so on. Given the short names though this limits how long you can make the rest of the name.
 
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Lukifell

Educated
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
69
The NES port is indeed busted. Rolled an all 17-18 DEX crew, three with platemail and shields for -2 AC. Ventured into Kuto’s Well without any Sleep spells ready and got tore apart by a group of Lizardmen, who hit my -2 AC Fighters much more frequently than they hit them, and each had 18+ STR and a Longsword +1. They also seemed to have a 20% hit rate against goblins and kobolds. :/
 

Lukifell

Educated
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
69
In 2E D&D, Lizardmen weren't that scary. Just googled, they have a thaco of 19. But on NES PoR, they're hitting negative AC chars ~50% of the time... it should be more like 5%, lol. And then trolls (which should have a thaco of 13) just tore apart two fighters with -4 and -3 AC, almost never missing, and hitting for 10-11 damage with each of their three attacks (their two claws should only be 5-8).

Is it like this in the PC game, too?
 

octavius

Arcane
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In 2E D&D, Lizardmen weren't that scary. Just googled, they have a thaco of 19. But on NES PoR, they're hitting negative AC chars ~50% of the time... it should be more like 5%, lol. And then trolls (which should have a thaco of 13) just tore apart two fighters with -4 and -3 AC, almost never missing, and hitting for 10-11 damage with each of their three attacks (their two claws should only be 5-8).

Is it like this in the PC game, too?

Lizardmen have several attacks per round, which makes them hit often. For me at least, they are probably the most scary low level (1-2 HD) enemies, since they hit often and they hit quite hard compared to goblinoids and even ogres (ogres compensate more HP, though).

But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some wonkiness with the SNES version. Every GB had it's own peculiarities, and especially FRUA seems to give enemies pluses to most dice rolls.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
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Location
Swedish Empire
Goldbox on NES are pretty dumbed-down business, but its playable.

But i never knew they came out on console back then, i played the Goldbox on C64 and Amiga, didnt find out they came out on NES until like, early 2000, i guess Bergsala never found them worthy of import.
 

Null Null

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
542
My issue with the NES versions is that because you only have a few buttons, selecting any option takes a lot longer, dragging the game out. It's a lot more button presses to attack any enemy than it is on the PC, with its keyboard.

The lizman issue is, as Octavius says, the multiple attacks, so they usually hit at least once.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,873
Anyone play nes Might & Magic or Bardstale. I played Swords & Serpents and combat was kind of annoying.
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,704
For these kinds of 80s combat-based games, it's best not to save-scum but restart from the town. That makes it more challenging and fun to play.
 

Lukifell

Educated
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
69
I say go full ironman with these games. It’s way more intense, every decision matters. Last half of a recent PoR ironman was tense af, level draining undead are terrifying when you can’t save/reload
 

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