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The Council - episodic narrative adventure with RPG elements set in the late 18th century

Tigranes

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Multi-headed Cow Ultimately it's a very nice, very stylish experience and I also really enjoyed it. It's only that the game isn't very meaningfully nonlinear or mechanically robust, and the story itself makes some unfortunate turns later on - but I'd say it's certainly worth playing at least the first couple eps.
 
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Shit, man. Moving along in episode 4 now and there are some nice consequences for your potential actions. Definitely not perfect but considering it's a budget title from Focus/Cyanide I'm still pretty impressed.

Emily killed mom down by the dock, and after that happened and I had the end of quest objectives tally and it mentioned it was possible to save her, I looked up discussion about that. Turns out you CAN save her if you punch Napoleon when he tries to distract you (I did) and if you immediately pass on asking Mortimer questions when he starts spilling his guts (I started to, then thought "Come on Cow, there's no way that's going to be important to the game" and reloaded to restart the conversation so I could ask the questions. Turns out THAT WAS INDEED IMPORTANT and I'll live with the consequence of it). I appreciate when games have time-sensitive stuff like that, even if it bites me in the ass on occasion because then previous gaming experience tells me I can stand around jerking off with no issue because it's a game.

Few of the puzzles have felt a little weird, not sure if it was my brain being muddy or if I missed clues during a few of them, and the resources are overly generous even though the skill checks do get harder later on, but I've been having a damn good time of it. The writing and presentation doesn't feel up to snuff compared to Telltale, but the C&C seems a lot better, puzzles are better (Though still light for an adventure game) and the whole thing just feels like a better take on story-focused adventuring with C&C. Telltale often felt more like an interactive cartoon where I'd enjoy the story but my impact on it was minimal and there was almost no puzzling going on, the Council is more engaging on all fronts. Really glad I picked it up, kinda doubt the final episode will piss me off but who knows.

I also originally wasn't going to use my evil demon powers since I was going to run around using the spear of destiny on some demons, but once my mom died I immediately cracked and used it on Emily just because I was curious if she WAS Emily. I was confident she was and I picked the correct one, but since my plans went out the window I figured what the hell I may as well use my demonic mojo and still try to kill the demons later rather than being completely pure. That very well may bite me in the ass too, but that's the plan now. Speaking of which, I do appreciate that Mortimer was delaying you by tempting you with answers to questions while your mom was being killed. I even assumed that was the intent when I first saw him in the foyer there, and why I initially started passing his dialog, but then my gamer-brain kicked in again with "Well, technically he already delayed me, so game-wise they'll probably still say he delayed me so I may as well ask my questions just to see what he has to say" reasoning. Really do like that they kicked me in the nuts for that.
 

V_K

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If you're referring to the spear puzzle, I think the game intentionally gives you contradicting clues. It's an item of legend, so it makes sense for some of the lore to be wrong.
What's actually fun with the puzzle design in the game is that with some of them (e.g. escaping Mortimer's study and everything to do with the spear) you can fail forward for some fairly unique consequences.
 
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If you're referring to the spear puzzle, I think the game intentionally gives you contradicting clues. It's an item of legend, so it makes sense for some of the lore to be wrong.
What's actually fun with the puzzle design in the game is that with some of them (e.g. escaping Mortimer's study and everything to do with the spear) you can fail forward for some fairly unique consequences.
Nah, that one in particular felt good for the reasons you mentioned. Plus I got a fairly definitive answer after I mined all the info I could and did some skill checks. And even then I have a couple doubts, one because of game-logic like what fucked me now, and one for in-universe logic that feels a bit odd.
Agreed on the "Failing forward" side too. It's nice how some of the puzzles you can whiff on and get lasting consequences as well as a slightly different story. I'm hoping they get a bigger budget for their WoD game so they can go even more in-depth on it. I guess there's also a partial worry that WoD might have more oversight, thus potentially more streamlining/Telltaleification to make it more appealing to audiences at large rather than allowing some "YOU DONE FUCKED UP" moments. Since the Council's their own creation I assume they probably had more freedom on it than WoD will allow even mechanically, but I'm even more stoked that they're making a game in a similar vein in WoD now.
 
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Finished it, non-spoilery feelings are... Final episode was definitely weaker and shorter, but I still had a good time and it was a reasonably satisfying conclusion. As a whole it was a good experience. The ending was weak enough to dampen my desire to do a second run with different choices any time soon, but I may load it up again in a few years and try an opposite character just to see how that pans out.
 

agris

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It was an interesting game, mostly because it was using some novel mechanics with combative dialogue.

I wonder if the devs have written anything public about lessons learned from TC. I’ll certainly be eyeing their WoD game.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
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I think I spent a large chunk of the game not sure what I think about Emily's identity and trustworthiness, and that's the mark of writing doing its job well.
 

Erebus

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Jul 12, 2008
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I've just finished the first episode (as a diplomat). Not quite sure what to make of the game yet. I'll replay the episode at least once and pick some different options (and skills) to get an idea of what I've missed.

I like the historical setting, the atmosphere of intrigue and the mysteries involving the characters. On the other hand, I'm not quite convinced that the supernatural elements are for the best. So far, they're mostly limited to Louis's visions, but it seems very likely that they'll play a significant part in the plot. If not used with caution, supernatural elements can really spoil an intrigue plot : if anything is possible, then it becomes rather difficult to reason logically and to make guesses or deductions.
 

GarrisonFjord

Guest
Time and again I see The Council praised.
Then I search my let's play channels list for it.

And then I remember:
Lowest of lows dialogues (on par with neighbourhood gossip),
set against detailed 3D with bad, exaggerated, drawn-out animations.
The token dialogue skills seem barely interesting, but by then I'm long gone.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
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Oh sweet summer child.

Buckle up.

Be frank with me : on a scale from 1 to 10, how much is the plot of this game related to supernatural stuff ?

Let's just say that you appear to have a supernatural ability to see the future, my man

(FWIW, I share your opinion and I strongly believe the supernatural shit should've been minimised, but I still found most of the episodes good to play through.)
 

agris

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I thoroughly enjoyed the game, all episodes, narrative and pacing issues aside.

Keep at it Erebus and just keep your post in mind as you play the latter episodes. You’ll have a good laugh!
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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One thing I wish I had kept in mind is that the de Richets (Louis and his mom) are straight up occult investigators right from the beginning. I was looking at at things through a modern lens, oh how quaint they're tracking down magic amulets and shit, isn't that cute, anyway what is the real story? If you ask yourself, what if they're not ignorant goofballs but there might actually be something to this? you might have a much better time.
 

V_K

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Honestly, just go ahead and read the spoilers for the ep. 4 plot twist in this thread. That's what I did, and I enjoyed noticing the build-up to it, while people who went in blind were apparently disappointed.
 

Erebus

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Finished the first episode a second time (as a Detective). The replayability is okay. Some parts of the game can be completely different depending on your choices, though others remain largely the same. Choices seem to have real consequences, which is of course nice. But the relation between choice and consequence doesn't always seem to be very logical, as illustrated by the end of the episode.

In my first attempt, I followed Elizabeth to her room, but refused to drink and went back to my room. As a result, the episode ended with my being accused of murdering her.

In my second attempt, I ignored Elizabeth and followed the duchess. The episode ended completely differently, with my meeting Lord Mortimer.

Obviously, not every decision should have predictable consequences. But if decisions often have major yet unpredictable consequences, then the player doesn't really get to use his brain.


On a different and less important subject, I'm a bit puzzled by some of the (many) works of art that you can observe in the manor. Some of them shouldn't exist yet, and it's hard to tell whether it's merely a mistake by the designers of the game or if it has significance.

For instance, there's a famous painting by David of the death of the famous French revolutionary Marat. But the story happens in January of 1793, and that means Marat isn't dead yet.

More obviously, there's a cast of Rodin's famous Thinker, a statue that was made almost a century later (Rodin wasn't even born at the time of the story).
 
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Then I search my let's play channels list for it.
:prosper:

One thing I wish I had kept in mind is that the de Richets (Louis and his mom) are straight up occult investigators right from the beginning. I was looking at at things through a modern lens, oh how quaint they're tracking down magic amulets and shit, isn't that cute, anyway what is the real story? If you ask yourself, what if they're not ignorant goofballs but there might actually be something to this? you might have a much better time.
That might've been part of why I enjoyed it so much. I kept that in mind the whole time since I actively enjoy that kind of shit. The final execution of the game's story was still a little wobbly but I would've been happy if there was either zero supernatural stuff going on (And his visions are just a brain tumor/lead poisoning/whatever) or if there was some supernatural. Which reminds me of Age of Decadence, actually, and part of what I liked about that setting but I'll leave that vague to avoid spoilers there too.

Finished the first episode a second time (as a Detective). The replayability is okay. Some parts of the game can be completely different depending on your choices, though others remain largely the same. Choices seem to have real consequences, which is of course nice. But the relation between choice and consequence doesn't always seem to be very logical, as illustrated by the end of the episode.
I would guess that the first episode's going to be the best example of that, 'cause I remember a few of the episodes being relatively linear (Feeling at least. Maybe C&C changes that some). There is some juicy C&C in there though, more major feeling than a fair few games, and the consequences for a lot of 'em are logical so it's not always weird like episode 1's ending. I will give you the minor non-spoilery hint to think in terms of real life logic, rather than game logic. Doubt it'll help being so vague but I fucked myself with that at one fairly key point.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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On a different and less important subject, I'm a bit puzzled by some of the (many) works of art that you can observe in the manor. Some of them shouldn't exist yet, and it's hard to tell whether it's merely a mistake by the designers of the game or if it has significance.
You played through episode one twice but didn't find the time machine on either go? Hang in there, you'll find out in episode negative two.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
On a different and less important subject, I'm a bit puzzled by some of the (many) works of art that you can observe in the manor. Some of them shouldn't exist yet, and it's hard to tell whether it's merely a mistake by the designers of the game or if it has significance.
You played through episode one twice but didn't find the time machine on either go? Hang in there, you'll find out in episode negative two.
20201002_082934.jpg
 

GarrisonFjord

Guest
I've been trying to make a more detailed post about Council.
So went & bought it, even though it doesn't run on my Linux.
Watched a few LPs, to get different perspectives (at speed).

- Meticulously detailed visual art, that conveys atmosphere.
- Alternative paths (but only in the CYOA / flavour sense).
- Dialogue options, based on skill checks (CYOA / flavour).
- Skill modifiers (status effects, immunity/vulnerability).

- There is no challenge. Can you lose? Can you get stuck?
- Minimal interaction, at preset points, within gated areas.
- Mannerisms (in text, voices, animations).
- Cinematic direction (constant camera cut/pan/zoom).
- Achievement cues (gui popups & sound effects).
- 3D with no functional role (but it conveys atmosphere).
- Episodic gaming (ok in principle; maybe not this time).

- Class: Determines starting skill points. Never used again.
- Opportunities (quick time events): Click a spot in the gui.
- Consumable gathering: Filler, in so small & linear areas.
- Inventory: Equip items, for small skill bonus. Very limited.
- Journal: Only to see known immunities/vulnerabilities.
- Map: With such small & linear areas, seems unnecessary.
- Talents: Shows preconditions, for getting permanent bonuses.
..E.g. Reach X level in skill Y, gain some permanent effect.
..No LPer cared to check it. No one had any trouble anyway.
- Traits: Don't know of a reason, to ever open this screen.

Only the Character screen is important (spend skill points).

Copied from the in-game tutorial:
"Confrontation: Last Step
For the last step of a Confrontation, you MUST convince
the person you are talking to by giving a positive answer.
If you give a bad answer, the step will repeat itself until
either you give a right one, or you have no Blunders left.
The last step of a Confrontation will repeat itself if you fail."

It doesn't matter what you do. You can't lose or get stuck.
Even the blind LPer, never managed to run out of Blunders.

A choose-your-own-adventure, with bells & whistles
(that are annoying & get in the way (for me at least)).

False marketing: 0% RPG. Adventure in form only. Not a game.
Too many superficial options, too little (if any) impact.

As a straight CYOA, that respected my time, I could like it.
In comparison to games I do like: All have things I dislike,
but I can ignore them, or at least move quickly over them.

I did "get my money's worth"; but not from the game as is.
And, being able to move at my own pace, did not perceive a
quality drop, in later episodes. More of an improvement.

Most criticisms are tightly coupled with my own background.
It is, as always, entirely relative.

Episode 1 not-puzzle: Rotate 4 statues at corners of a room.
Game says exactly what to do.

Episode 2 not-puzzle: 1st lock combination.
Hints all over the same room, or get answer with skills.

Episode 2 not-puzzle: 2nd lock combination.
Can deduce without further info, or fail and go on anyway.

Episode 2 not-puzzle: Garden. Walk around, not many options.

Episode 3 not-puzzle: Nails and disc. Bit more elaborate.
Would like more & better of this, and less inane dialogues.
Still: Answers are right there. Skills make it irrelevant.

Episode 4 maybe-puzzle: Code / letters / tattoo.
I thought 'A' was 'N' at first, but that's a texture issue.
Solved it on paper, after hearing about the "key".
To hear about the "key", you must pass a skill check.
So, _with_ the easier skill check, it's a puzzle (finally).
Without skill checks, could have gotten stuck here a while.
Would like more & better of this, and less inane dialogues.
Still: The harder skill check says: "Do without the code".

Episode 5 not-puzzle: Organize guests. Nothing much here.

Episode 5 not-puzzle: Reconstruct memories. Walking around.

Make of these quotes what you will.

Gossip:
"Idle talk about someone's private or personal matters,
especially someone not present."

Intrigue:
"The plot of a play, poem or romance; the series of complications
in which a writer involves their imaginary characters."

David Fincher (at the end) (from Every Frame a Painting):
"I think people are perverts. I've maintained that...
That's the foundation of my career."

Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Preface:
"All art is at once surface and symbol.
Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.
Those who read the symbol do so at their peril.
It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors."
"All art is quite useless."
 

V_K

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- There is no challenge. Can you lose? Can you get stuck?
You can actually, there's a number of things you can do to get a bad ending:
-Try a wrong solution for the vault puzzle and fail dexterity check - you'll lose a hand and get poisoned; you'll die during the ending sequence;
-Pick a wrong spear - Mortimer gets to possess you;
-Fail the twins storyline and fail to locate the book - same.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm confused and angry that there are no premature hard fail states. The only thing that gives my time and decisions enjoyment or meaning is the threat of a GAME OVER YOU DIED CLICK HERE FOR NEW GAME screen.
Overall interesting post and good review, but this particular bit is very stupid.
 
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GarrisonFjord

Guest
V_K
Good to know & nice that the game will acknowledge these.
If I understood, that will happen in the final dialogue.
This is getting a bad ending, not losing or getting stuck.

Zombra
Thank you, but please don't put my name over your words.
Not even sure what you refer to, like this.
I consider challenge an important part of games.
What checkpoints? They shouldn't even exist, in my opinion.
They create artificial challenges / time sinks, not valid ones.
 

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