Decline Does full camera control add any benefit to "isometric"-style cRPGs?

[rusty_shackleford]

One of the strange things I saw touted as a feature in the new Pathfinder game is full camera control. Does it really add anything? I generally find games with a fixed camera to be easier to navigate and don't have to spend any time fiddling around with the camera. I tend not to lose track of things like in similar games with full camera control. From a developer's perspective, the designers never have to worry about the game being looked at from any viewpoint except the one the camera is fixed to.

The developers themselves admit having a rotating camera introduces issues for the player

Next on our list is the camera. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker camera was static, so there were no issues related to positioning and pivoting it, while in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous you will be able to rotate the camera. We had plans to add a button to return a camera into its default position. After discussing the feedback we decided to add sensitivity sliders, so you can set up the rotation speed of your camera. We are also planning to add a compass — which was one of the most requested features — to make it easier to navigate levels and local maps.

Exactly who is this feature appealing to and what's the reason you like it? It seems like nothing more than a gimmick.

Spoiler

Obligatory NWN2 camera reference

 

[Wunderbar]

Does it really add anything?

now you will have to spin it around every few seconds to check if there is a lootable crate behind that wall, and after a while you will lose track of where is north and at what angle your camera was supposed to be set.

 

[Nano]

The idiots playing D:OS demanded that it be added to the EE and D:OS2, meaning it's now going to be a feature in every isometric RPG with a budget.

It's a massive fucking waste of time for both the developers and the players, all in the name of immershun.

 

[purupuru]

Full camera control can be a good thing if the game is focused on quality 3D puzzle levels like Mario Odyssey or Captain Toad, but that's simply not going to happen for a full length rpg. Maybe one or two good puzzles in the beginning levels, after that it's just gonna be "that one lootbox around the corner" rinse and repeat.

 

[Lord_Potato]

I prefer fixed camera height/angle. It forces developpers to create maps that are menagable from this viewpoint, without unnecessary hassle.

Free camera is an unneeded luxury that quickly becomes a chore.

 

[Funposter]

only if it comes with Dawn of War style killmoves

 

[just]

only if female models have great asses

 

[Ol' Willy]

Fixed camera + transparency where needed is the way to go.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Are there any examples where free camera helped gameplay?
Only RPG-ish cases that I can think of where it isn't bloat are Silent Storm -series and one upcoming espionage themed game.

Rotatable camera is justified if game focuses on tactical gameplay where positioning matters.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[V_K]

I remember some game from the 90s (was it Magic&Mayhem?) that had the camera switch between four cardinal positions. That was a lot more convenient than free rotation.

 

[Bastardchops]

I find it annoying.

 

[Dramart]

It's one of the most unnatural things ever. It's really bad for gameplay, fixed is the best. The reason some people ask for it is to see the butt of their female characters from different angles, also the face or tits. In isometric games this is shit.

 

[Sentinel]

I have never played an isometric game (not just RPGs) with full camera controls where the camera controlled well and didnt need constant annoying babysitting.

 

[NJClaw]

Full camera control makes it impossible for pre-rendered hand-painted backgrounds to come back, so it actively hinders the quality of upcoming and future "isometric" RPGs.

It was especially bad in Expeditions: Viking. The game is amazing, but that fucking rotating camera makes it impossible to understand where you are in the map and where the fuck you are going. The only way to play the game is to fix the camera looking north as soon as you enter a new map, and then never touch it again.

 

[JarlFrank]

Are there any examples where free camera helped gameplay?
Only RPG-ish cases that I can think of where it isn't bloat are Silent Storm -series and one upcoming espionage themed game.

Rotatable camera is justified if game focuses on tactical gameplay where positioning matters.

In Silent Storm it isn't just the free camera, but the fully interactive and destructible 3D environments that added more tactical variety by allowing you to blow holes into walls and shoot at enemies through soft cover.

 

[Quillon]

Codex demands fixed camera then posts 34567890678945678 posts about how they can't see shit when it hits the fan.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Are there any examples where free camera helped gameplay?
Only RPG-ish cases that I can think of where it isn't bloat are Silent Storm -series and one upcoming espionage themed game.

Rotatable camera is justified if game focuses on tactical gameplay where positioning matters.

In Silent Storm it isn't just the free camera, but the fully interactive and destructible 3D environments that added more tactical variety by allowing you to blow holes into walls and shoot at enemies through soft cover.

Which justified the existence of free camera, but what would free camera add to something like upcoming Pathfinder?

 

[JarlFrank]

Are there any examples where free camera helped gameplay?
Only RPG-ish cases that I can think of where it isn't bloat are Silent Storm -series and one upcoming espionage themed game.

Rotatable camera is justified if game focuses on tactical gameplay where positioning matters.

In Silent Storm it isn't just the free camera, but the fully interactive and destructible 3D environments that added more tactical variety by allowing you to blow holes into walls and shoot at enemies through soft cover.

Which justified the existence of free camera, but what would free camera add to something like upcoming Pathfinder?

Nothing because fully 3D environments don't add anything to it, either.

I think it's less about the camera itself than about the question of whether full 3D adds anything to the gameplay. If the 3D environments are fully interactable, then yes, they add something. If they don't, you may as well keep parts of the environment in 2D.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Codex demands fixed camera then posts 34567890678945678 posts about how they can't see shit when it hits the fan.

Where? When? How come? Concerning what game?

The few isometric games with fixed camera that have been published during the last several years are: Pillars of Eternity 1&2, Tyranny, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Underrail, Disco Elysium (propably I'm missing two or three titles). I've never seen them criticized for lack of clarity.

 

[DeepOcean]

Free rotating camera only makes sense if your game has verticality + fog of war + destructible terrain, so it is only useful in tactics games as you want to rotate the camera to check out for enemies or look for a wall to blow it up, if the action on your game is very flat, it doesnt make any sense.

 

[Quillon]

The few isometric games with fixed camera that have been published during the last several years are: Pillars of Eternity 1&2, Tyranny, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Underrail, Disco Elysium (propably I'm missing two or three titles). I've never seen them criticized for lack of clarity.

You are fucking blind then.

 

[Voids]

A free camera system is usually a huge pain in the ass, but if they are going for it at least they're adding a compass.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

they get criticized because of this

not because you can't rotate your camera

 

[Quillon]

not because you can't rotate your camera

because codex is too dumb not to know the concept of getting a better angle to be able to see shit?