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Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC
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V_K
Arcane
I didn't find quest markers to be of much use, they only tell you where you need to go - which is usually easy enough to understand from the map - but not how to get there. They don't tell you "here's a keycard you'll need" or "here's a pipe you can climb".
So please tell me how do you manage to find keycards, distinguish readable notes from non-readable papers or neuromods from, well, any other small pieces of tech?
Part of me understands that all this clutter is at least partly by design - you need busy scenes for mimics to work as intended. I'm just doubting I can master the levels of commitment and concentration that the game requires for long enough to finish it. Which is a shame, because when I'm not running around confused, the game is a lot of fun.
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I also do not have the issue you describe... i tend to be able to find stuff in rooms just fine and i even played Prey, Deus Ex MD, Dishonored, etc at a 1366x768 resolution where you'd expect things to be a bit harder to notice.
Some games have an option to have interactive items highlighted, perhaps this can help you? I did find it a bit annoying in DXMD though because they use a white color for an outline which is too bright (DXHR used a gold color which was perfectly fine). But perhaps there is a mod for the color.
Beyond that IIRC most games also do some form of highlighting when you are near the interactive objects, e.g. in Dishonored objects get a strong rim light and in Prey you get a small popup with the object's name. Other games like the original Deus Ex put a rectangle around the object, though i do not see that approach often these days.
Of course i should note that i do not just enter the room and then immediately notice everything, i actively go and look at every surface, look behind items, etc. But that is part of these games.
Some games have an option to have interactive items highlighted, perhaps this can help you? I did find it a bit annoying in DXMD though because they use a white color for an outline which is too bright (DXHR used a gold color which was perfectly fine). But perhaps there is a mod for the color.
Beyond that IIRC most games also do some form of highlighting when you are near the interactive objects, e.g. in Dishonored objects get a strong rim light and in Prey you get a small popup with the object's name. Other games like the original Deus Ex put a rectangle around the object, though i do not see that approach often these days.
Of course i should note that i do not just enter the room and then immediately notice everything, i actively go and look at every surface, look behind items, etc. But that is part of these games.
Too much clutter can be annoying in modern games but I found the problem lessened in Prey by virtue of the fact that the game heavily encourages you to recycle random trash so I tried to pick up anything that seemed to be inventory pickupable, and as for distinguishing what is important from what is not.. the game has the function to automatically transfer only irrelevant game-mechanic wise stuff to the recycler automatically and the more useful stuff like weapons won't automatically be transferred and require manual transfer so it's not a problem since the game sorts things for you.
It's a bit of inventory juggling and back and forth early on before you upgrade inventory space but it becomes a mindless routine soon enough.
By far, the two real weaknesses of Prey is the lack of enemy variety and the abundance of resources. Although some lesser human beings complain about the resources, the fact of the matter, I ended the game with almost all abilities upgraded because I was able to craft an ungodly amount of neuromods.
It's a bit of inventory juggling and back and forth early on before you upgrade inventory space but it becomes a mindless routine soon enough.
By far, the two real weaknesses of Prey is the lack of enemy variety and the abundance of resources. Although some lesser human beings complain about the resources, the fact of the matter, I ended the game with almost all abilities upgraded because I was able to craft an ungodly amount of neuromods.
It's a result of advances in graphical fidelity and the increased automation of detail, to the point where everything in the game can achieve the same extreme levels of detail. In older games you could always tell what the objects of interest were because they necessarily tended to be of a higher quality, usually unique model, texture, etc. Because everything was done more or less by hand, by far smaller teams, you couldn't have every object in the scene being hyper detailed. It's why mechanics like object glow have become so prevalent, it's not necessarily because of dumbing down (although that's part of it).
I felt it the most in Dishonored 2 where my sense felt overloaded in the first hour or so, but I got used to it after that.
I felt it the most in Dishonored 2 where my sense felt overloaded in the first hour or so, but I got used to it after that.
Didn't feel so for Prey but I too had a very hard time distinguishing stuff in Dishonored 2. Coming from the first game who looked rather different didn't help.
V_K
Arcane
And that's what I meant by having to concentrate a lot. It's just not the way you play e.g. a blobber (since those are more abstract), or even an adventure (since camera position is fixed).
Nifft Batuff
Prophet
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I had a similar problem with the Infinity Engine games and, more recently, with their recent clones. I just played Fallout 2 before playing Baldur's Gate. In Fallout all the objects were interactive. Everything was systemic, you have many available actions that you can perform on them, and I had no problem to identify what was part of the game and what was just the background, because everything was part of the game in a very organic way.
On the contrary, Baldur Gate was a big pain in the ass. Apparently the graphics was better and more detailed, but it was only just noise to the actual gameplay. You can have hundred of objects depicted in the background, but only one is interactive, and often with a single pre-scritped possible way to use it. Furthermore you can't tell which is the interactive object among the hundred others. It was completely arbitrary. They had to implement a switchable highlighting mode to identify these objects. I cannot state well enough how this is bad game design at every level. I hated (and still hate) BG for its decline with respect other games such as Fallout.
On the contrary, Baldur Gate was a big pain in the ass. Apparently the graphics was better and more detailed, but it was only just noise to the actual gameplay. You can have hundred of objects depicted in the background, but only one is interactive, and often with a single pre-scritped possible way to use it. Furthermore you can't tell which is the interactive object among the hundred others. It was completely arbitrary. They had to implement a switchable highlighting mode to identify these objects. I cannot state well enough how this is bad game design at every level. I hated (and still hate) BG for its decline with respect other games such as Fallout.
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PrettyDeadman
Guest
I can easily decipher interactible object from non-interactable with a quick glance without any need for highlighting.
I subconciously analyze game's flow, world design, lore, visual style and etc. and make 100% accurate predictions.
I call this ability "gameRvision" or "gameRsense".
I subconciously analyze game's flow, world design, lore, visual style and etc. and make 100% accurate predictions.
I call this ability "gameRvision" or "gameRsense".
RoSoDude
Arcane
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Well, one of the main things that should be helping you in this task is that every inventory pickup (and readable object?) produces a not-so-subtle shimmer over its surface whether you're up up close or far away. This is especially noticeable when you're in a room full of junk and they all shimmer together at the same phase.
I do agree something is off about Prey's visual clarity. I got used to Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (even kinda liked rustling around for hidden items among the overly detailed environments) and Dishonored, but something about the general fidelity and the way Prey is rendered makes important stuff fail to stand out at times, including enemy attacks. The featureless rooms of Thief and barren streets of Deus Ex never bothered me much by comparison because the visual language of those games was so clear -- everything that looks interactive IS interactive, which matters a lot more for muh immersion and sense of place than having of a lot of decorative crap on desks.
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For those interested in the conversation about visual clarity, there was actually a whole thread on this subject earlier this year.
V_K
Arcane
Yep, started by the very same old guy 
Though to be fair, the problem I'm facing now is a different one then back then. The old post was about visual clutter making me unable to discern what the fuck is even going on on my screen. Following the advice from that thread and minimizing special effects and shadows solved that for me.
The problem I'm talking about now has more to do with level design: the environment itself is readable, but contains many important elements that are easy to overlook. And I'm not even sure it's fair to call it a problem - if things like shafts leading into locked rooms were easy to recognize, there wouldn't be much challenge in the game. But sometimes it leads to such silly situations like missing a keycard that's staring you right in the face.
Fake edit: Come to think of it, maybe the core of the issue isn't even noticing stuff, but recognizing it. Prey has a somewhat novel setting, so as a player you simply need to learn first what important stuff looks like. Like, a sword or a magic book in a fantasy game wouldn't give you much trouble, no matter how cluttered the environment, because you've seen a shitload of them in other fantasy games. But a neuromod is something you're seeing for the first time in your life, so it's natural that it takes time to get used to discerning it from the clutter. Maybe they should have included some linear and handholdy tutorial just to introduce the player to the basic objects and conventions of the game. The way the game opens up fast and furious might well be the reason why so many players never get past the lobby entrance.
Though to be fair, the problem I'm facing now is a different one then back then. The old post was about visual clutter making me unable to discern what the fuck is even going on on my screen. Following the advice from that thread and minimizing special effects and shadows solved that for me.
The problem I'm talking about now has more to do with level design: the environment itself is readable, but contains many important elements that are easy to overlook. And I'm not even sure it's fair to call it a problem - if things like shafts leading into locked rooms were easy to recognize, there wouldn't be much challenge in the game. But sometimes it leads to such silly situations like missing a keycard that's staring you right in the face.
Fake edit: Come to think of it, maybe the core of the issue isn't even noticing stuff, but recognizing it. Prey has a somewhat novel setting, so as a player you simply need to learn first what important stuff looks like. Like, a sword or a magic book in a fantasy game wouldn't give you much trouble, no matter how cluttered the environment, because you've seen a shitload of them in other fantasy games. But a neuromod is something you're seeing for the first time in your life, so it's natural that it takes time to get used to discerning it from the clutter. Maybe they should have included some linear and handholdy tutorial just to introduce the player to the basic objects and conventions of the game. The way the game opens up fast and furious might well be the reason why so many players never get past the lobby entrance.
I agree that Prey is visually pretty busy, but I never had difficulty determining what is interactable or important. The fact that multiple people are describing the issue makes me think it’s something cognitively genetic, like the fact that some people are just incapable of seeing those 3D Magic Eye things.
V_K
Arcane
Surprisingly, increasing the field of view to 120 degrees seemed to help. While it makes objects smaller, something about it being more natural helps with relating figures to background and perceiving the topology of the environment. Or maybe I'm just getting used to the game's rules. Having a lot of fun btw. Now that I can orient myself better it's turned into an explorefag's wet dream. And dropping recycling charges on phantoms never gets old.
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They also used to hover above the ground and rotate, which helped :-P.
Well, it isn't a blobber nor an adventure game (though in most of the adventure games i've played i always end up pixel hunting which to me feels worse than looking for stuff in 3D FP games) and exploring every corner in a room is part of how these games are played - and to me it isn't really different than playing older games like the original Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind (in indoor locations), etc since i also have to look for stuff the same way. I never felt like i had to spend more time on it (though it might also be that i actually like that activity).
That isn't to say that i never felt overwhelmed by a game having a lot of detail but this wasn't due to the detail itself. The first time i played UT3 i just couldn't read the environments at all (which isn't that great for an arena shooter) and i thought this was because of the detail - but eventually i realized it isn't the detail but that the game has barely any contrast so nothing sticks out (and that despite the designers making supposedly important objects more shiny).
However i do not remember having that issue with any other game.
V_K
Arcane
In adventure games you get a single screen, at worst (if there's no hotspot highlighting) you just need to move your mouse a lot. You don't have to turn or move around to get it all.
I thought of whether it'd be better to stop at 100 but then decided to go all the way. The default 86 is definitely too small for me, for this particular game at least. I think that might actually have something to do with that I've written above about adventure games: high FOV means I don't have to move the camera that often and can parse the environment from a relatively static position.
Well, now that you mention it, I realize that the last non-blobber free movement 3D game I played was probably Skyrim, and I always play TES in third person, it's just easier for me that way. Besides, the thing about post-DF TES is that while they're quire cluttered with interactable stuff, their environments are also straightforward as a brick. And the last first-person only 3D game I've played would be probably Arx Fatalis - not on release, but sometime mid-2000s. So I might just be grossly out of practice.
EDIT: Ah, no, the really last one would be The Council, but that's also third person and not very interactive environments. Plus the explorable area is tiny.
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ciox
Liturgist
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It all started with Bioshock, and Prey sadly takes some serious influence from there. The model in the Bioshock games is that almost every room is to be "processed" for some tens of seconds or even minutes, with lots of trash loot, containers that might be empty or contain trash loot, audio logs that need to be listened to, food to eat for +1 HP, "secrets" that are mostly in plain sight and shimmering at you from behind some decorative junk that needs to be moved. Stuff like that.
The audio log count in games with slightly smaller budgets like Prey or Outer Worlds is lower, but the amount of text readables is increased instead, mostly keeping the balance in how much clutter there is in the average room and how much time you need to spend in there.
Indeed, it feels like there's specialized teams dedicated to making levels feel more lively by adding lots of interactable goodies everywhere, which are always there regardless of difficulty level, perhaps explaining why these games usually have poor item balance.
The audio log count in games with slightly smaller budgets like Prey or Outer Worlds is lower, but the amount of text readables is increased instead, mostly keeping the balance in how much clutter there is in the average room and how much time you need to spend in there.
Indeed, it feels like there's specialized teams dedicated to making levels feel more lively by adding lots of interactable goodies everywhere, which are always there regardless of difficulty level, perhaps explaining why these games usually have poor item balance.
Ash
Arcane
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There's some factors specific to Prey that I think the looting issue stands out more than other games, even with object highlight on:
1. Looting becomes redundant 2/3rds of the way in (you become OP), so you just get fed up with it and therefore notice the issues more prominently.
2. Prey is extremely detailed (and cluttered), more so than any other loot heavy game, making it difficult to discern important from not important.
3. Looting to combat (and other) ratio. In Prey, the vast majority of what you do is loot. There's no puzzles, minimal character interaction, no dynamic enemy respawns, and not many enemies across the game in general compared to any other game of its type. There is some platforming + the boring space walks + the boring hacking minigame though. You do so much fucking looting, balance is broken so it's pointless after a while, the distractions like hacking and space walks aren't helping...the game has some major problems that bar it from true classic status and this is one of them. anyhow, the fact you're looting so frequent without periodic payoff (in terms of testing that loot on enemies) or distraction (other forms of gameplay) is my point. Like before, it gets tedious so you notice its flaws more.
4. As another poster said, much of what is interactive is alien to us. Neuromods, organic matter, synthetic matter, recycler charges, tons of fictional consumables...much of what is not interactive can also be alien.
Many things working against a clear visual language. Object highlight is needed, whereas even modern Fallouts and Elder Scrolls don't have it.
It's such a shame that Prey is what it is. Cool game but a few core all-important steps from true greatness. Such a shame.
Arx Fatalis > Prey >> Dark Messiah >> Dishonored
1. Looting becomes redundant 2/3rds of the way in (you become OP), so you just get fed up with it and therefore notice the issues more prominently.
2. Prey is extremely detailed (and cluttered), more so than any other loot heavy game, making it difficult to discern important from not important.
3. Looting to combat (and other) ratio. In Prey, the vast majority of what you do is loot. There's no puzzles, minimal character interaction, no dynamic enemy respawns, and not many enemies across the game in general compared to any other game of its type. There is some platforming + the boring space walks + the boring hacking minigame though. You do so much fucking looting, balance is broken so it's pointless after a while, the distractions like hacking and space walks aren't helping...the game has some major problems that bar it from true classic status and this is one of them. anyhow, the fact you're looting so frequent without periodic payoff (in terms of testing that loot on enemies) or distraction (other forms of gameplay) is my point. Like before, it gets tedious so you notice its flaws more.
4. As another poster said, much of what is interactive is alien to us. Neuromods, organic matter, synthetic matter, recycler charges, tons of fictional consumables...much of what is not interactive can also be alien.
Many things working against a clear visual language. Object highlight is needed, whereas even modern Fallouts and Elder Scrolls don't have it.
It's such a shame that Prey is what it is. Cool game but a few core all-important steps from true greatness. Such a shame.
Arx Fatalis > Prey >> Dark Messiah >> Dishonored
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Ash
Arcane
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Fair call, however that also reminds me that you have no longer any progression to work towards either; you have all or nearly all the neuromods, weapon upgrades and whatever else by 2/3rds, so there's less payoff for all your janitorial clean up and recycle efforts. In the classics (Deus Ex, SS2, Arx Fatalis, New Vegas), you finish the game with roughly a little over half of the total upgrades obtained, leaving you clamoring for more till the very end, every single playthrough.
the game is great up until the arboretum, GUTS is a fantastic twist on the gameplay, then there's nothing NEW. main issue with the game. No new weapons. No new RPG upgrade progression to work towards. Later levels are either boring or backtracking to old cleared levels. No new Enemy types. Only a very slight increase in enemy intensity/frequency. And to top it off, boring story adds to the tedium. Like Darth Roxor says, just clear the arboretum then eject in the escape pod for the true ending. I beat the game once. started a second playthrough 1.5 years ago or so and gave up in derp storage or so. Still butthurt at how great this game could have been. And I still don't know why the game didn't have more "hardcore" options a.k.a actually engaging content. Bethesda's FO4 had a hardcore mode that actually made a difference in everything it changes. Arkane finally patched in their version and even then it's borderline irrelevant; doesn't change much, and things it does change barely make an impact because broken.
It's obvious that the design team was lacking or held back in some aspects.
...so I just looked up the credits to find out more about the team. Mick Gordon (of NuDoom) did the soundtrack. Explains why it's so bland.
the game is great up until the arboretum, GUTS is a fantastic twist on the gameplay, then there's nothing NEW. main issue with the game. No new weapons. No new RPG upgrade progression to work towards. Later levels are either boring or backtracking to old cleared levels. No new Enemy types. Only a very slight increase in enemy intensity/frequency. And to top it off, boring story adds to the tedium. Like Darth Roxor says, just clear the arboretum then eject in the escape pod for the true ending. I beat the game once. started a second playthrough 1.5 years ago or so and gave up in derp storage or so. Still butthurt at how great this game could have been. And I still don't know why the game didn't have more "hardcore" options a.k.a actually engaging content. Bethesda's FO4 had a hardcore mode that actually made a difference in everything it changes. Arkane finally patched in their version and even then it's borderline irrelevant; doesn't change much, and things it does change barely make an impact because broken.
It's obvious that the design team was lacking or held back in some aspects.
...so I just looked up the credits to find out more about the team. Mick Gordon (of NuDoom) did the soundtrack. Explains why it's so bland.
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I agree with this, I had every human neuromod I cared about way before the end. Though if I were doing a psi playthrough I don't know how true that would be? Anyway this is a common issue nowadays, because a lot of people like 100%ing shit or just getting that master of all power trip. There was a recent thread on the GOG forum with people whining endlessly about games that don't let you 100% your stats.
The overabundance of neuromods was easily my biggest gripe with the game. The devs were a little too generous with them, but I guess they have to pander to the masses nowadays. I'll be installing a hardcore mod the next time I play it.
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