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Themes in RPGs

Bester

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I can't recall many RPGs in which plots, subplots or lore conveyed a theme or a meta idea. Can you?

I think Planescape Torment's story is something like "who is a person if not the sum of their memories?"
And Dark Souls' lore's message is almost the same, that "slowly losing memories is a slow death of self." And its story maybe was about "time being a flat circle, the inescapability of humanity repeating the same mistakes over and over again."

But thinking about Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc,... I don't think they ever dealt with any themes at all, did they?
 
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Lemming42

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Fallout 1 is arguably about the cyclic nature of violence (and the possibility of breaking that cycle), and New Vegas is frequently obsessed with the idea of nostalgia and people trying to recapture a real or imagined past. As for Fallout 2, no idea, probably something to do with STDs.

Deus Ex has a lot of very obvious themes about capitalism, governments, corporations getting too much power and so on, and the impact of having flashlight eyes.

Morrowind is about subjectivity and the idea that huge parts of history can never be truly known. Daggerfall has a little bit of the same thing going on.
 

Bester

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Fallout 1 is arguably about the cyclic nature of violence (and the possibility of breaking that cycle)
How?

Deus Ex has a lot of very obvious themes about capitalism, governments, corporations getting too much power and so on, and the impact of having flashlight eyes.
If the game explicitly tells you "X is bad", you can't think that the game's theme is "X being bad".
The kind of themes I'm looking for are meta to the narrative of the game itself.
 

Ol' Willy

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The premise is simple: Nuclear Armageddon happened and humans brought it upon themselves. Now humanity has to survive in a new, harsh environment, but without the Old World capabilities.

The underlying theme is more interesting: it's about the Old World legacy, namely it's technological marvels. Vault 13 is the best place to live in the entire Fallout's California due to being constructed before the war with all of its technological achievements, but at the same time it's very fragile: malfunction of a rather simple water chip is enough to doom it, and there are no ways in replicating this component. Then it's outside menace: Vault has little protection aside from it being hidden and unknown to anyone, so the simple fact of revealing its location can doom it.

The Old World is gone, and while its heritage is still crucial to survival, people should learn to live without. Notice how Fallout 1 shows the dichotomy of old and new life: Vault 13 as the example of old ways, comfortable, but with little perspectives in the future, slowly stagnating; Shady Sands as the new way, with almost none of pre-war technology and lots of hazards, but having opportunities to grow and attract new people. Vault 15 shows what can happen with Vault 13 in the future, simultaneously showing that this would not be the end: life in the Wasteland is quite possible.

Then it's the dangers of the Old World technology: supermutants, despite being a new threat, completely dependent on Old World heritage. They were created with pre-war FEV, they use pre-war weapons and equipment, they use pre-war facilities as bases and such. It took only one man to use the existing capabilities and threat the life with extinction one more time. As if Nuclear Holocaust wan't enough, Old World reached from the grave to extinguish the life once more.

Brotherhood plays an important role here too. They hoard technology, preventing it from being used in the wrong hands. The events of the game force them to abandon their reclusive politic and get involved into the outside affairs or face destruction.

So, Old World is gone. It's futile to try to bring it back. Use its legacy while it still exist, but do it cautiously and learn to do without. Society should be rebuilt and isolationist policies will not work.

Fallout 2 partially follows this narrative. VD went North and full Luddite, probably after realizing the dangers of technology (and it's ironic that his descendants realized that they can't do without). Enclave, being an ultimate threat, is one more relic of the Old World. Vault City is a good example of "use it, but learn to do without" mentioned above, they opened up and avoided stagnation. And, of course, we're shown the ultimate fate of Vault 13: it stood untouched right before Enclave came in and took everyone warm.
 
Self-Ejected

Shitty Kitty

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If you read way more into a BG run than the creators probably did it might be construed (for a Good aligned PC in particular) that there's a meta-narrative of "you can't escape your destiny".
 

Bruma Hobo

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Ultima IV is about finding happiness through self-improvement instead of fighting a convenient evil entity.
Ultima V is about free will and how fascism is paved with good intentions (ie "fuck Reagan").
Ultima VI is about how white people unwittingly oppress the underprivileged (seriously).
Ultima VII is about modernity and old age.
Ultima VIII is about necessary evil.
 

Citizen

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Move this shit to rpg discussion, stop littering the gaming forum with your RPG garbage reatrd
 

Lemming42

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Fallout 1 is arguably about the cyclic nature of violence (and the possibility of breaking that cycle)
How?

The systems and hierarchies that led to the nuclear war in the first place are already re-emerging, as people split up into city-states like The Hub and Junktown. California mostly has a barter economy, but we still see a deprived underclass of people (the assorted losers in the slums in the Hub) and a more privileged elite class (Hightower can afford guards, the water caravans exert huge influence over the Wasteland, etc). The nuclear war was fought over resources, nationalism, territory and ideology, and the wars in the wasteland are fought over resources, (city-state) nationalism, territory and ideology.

The clever part about Fallout 1 is that the only person who's offering a solution to this, and an alternative to reverting to the problems that plagued pre-war America, is the Master. Female Super Mutant infertility aside, The Master might be technically correct that "this will be the age of mutants" and that humanity is doomed to either die out soon or repeat its mistakes and destroy itself again, but obviously he's a complete monster and the majority of players won't want to side with him, so you're forced to defend humanity's right to forge its own future - even if that just means everything's going to go to hell again. Fo2 and New Vegas take it a little further with the NCR, who are simultaneously a representation of everything wrong with the pre-war world, and also arguably the best possible hope for the future. New Vegas has similar themes to Fallout 1 in general - will you choose to repeat the past and hope it works out better this time (NCR, House) or will you break from the past and try to create a new world, horrific as the results may end up being (Independent, kind of Legion but nobody seriously picks Legion)?

And in every one of the Fallout games, the player character can shatter the cycle of violence to some extent, forging peace and resolving conflicts, and ultimately setting society on a slightly better path than the one it was following at the start of the game.

If the game explicitly tells you "X is bad", you can't think that the game's theme is "X being bad".
The kind of themes I'm looking for are meta to the narrative of the game itself.

What do you mean by "theme"? You can argue Deus Ex is as subtle as a sledgehammer (which is true), but it has clear themes.
 

Gastrick

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Ultima IV is about finding happiness through self-improvement instead of fighting a convenient evil entity.
Isn't self-improvement, A.K.A. improving your character necessary for fighting an evil entity in every RPG?
For Ultima VI he retconned it later on have that theme.
 

Jvegi

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The main theme in ToEE is that it's an ugly mess.
 

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