Pathfinder Advisors in Pathfinder: Kingmaker

[Xamenos]

Probably the dumbest thing is when the mage Bartholomew joins your team but he's only available as a Treasurer or Diplomat, not as an Arcane advisor. Even though nothing in his quest suggested he specializes in those two areas.

While I agree he should've been an Arcane advisor, Bartholomew as a Diplomat was surprisingly competent.

 

[Desiderius]

Councilor position is indeed shit. There should have been others available as councilor, the current choices/limitations make zero sense whatsoever.

A really obvious one would have been Harrim. Also, the cleric guy whose name I forgot. Jhod or somesuch?

All three make better than sense, they’re all related to what builds loyalty.

Why isn't Kassil a potential councilor then?
It was arbitrary and dumb.

Because he's an orcish teenager. If you think he's going to know anything about securing the loyalty of your people you're an idiot.

 

[Reinhardt]

it shouldn't be this hard to find decent advisors.

Are you sure?

 

[Desiderius]

it shouldn't be this hard to find decent advisors.

Are you sure?

Exactly. More babies missing their faceroll.

 

[Parabalus]

Doesn't Jubilost eventually make his own way to your capital if you don't come across his broken wagon? I think I read that somewhere.

They added that in a patch, since missing Jubilost usually meant gg, since the other treasurer got added only with the DLC.

There are two other Treasurers.

Bartholo is evil and easily misseable, Maegar is a both "good" only and a good while later, you'd have a severely deprived kingdom without a treasurer till then.

Both are also garbage compared to companions with +stat bonuses.

 

[Desiderius]

You get training and what not, but I agree that the Treasurer situation is poorly designed given how easy Jub was to miss.

Show Location Names should have been on by default, which would have given you a red exclamation point at the Ford.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Councilor position is indeed shit. There should have been others available as councilor, the current choices/limitations make zero sense whatsoever.

A really obvious one would have been Harrim. Also, the cleric guy whose name I forgot. Jhod or somesuch?

All three make better than sense, they’re all related to what builds loyalty.

Why isn't Kassil a potential councilor then?
It was arbitrary and dumb.

Because he's an orcish teenager. If you think he's going to know anything about securing the loyalty of your people you're an idiot.

He's the adopted son of a Swordlord. He'd have some of the best training and education available.

 

[Reinhardt]

Councilor position is indeed shit. There should have been others available as councilor, the current choices/limitations make zero sense whatsoever.

A really obvious one would have been Harrim. Also, the cleric guy whose name I forgot. Jhod or somesuch?

All three make better than sense, they’re all related to what builds loyalty.

Why isn't Kassil a potential councilor then?
It was arbitrary and dumb.

Because he's an orcish teenager. If you think he's going to know anything about securing the loyalty of your people you're an idiot.

He's the adopted son of a Swordlord. He'd have some of the best training and education available.

Said swordlord is "lol, let's gib contested lands to any random hobo"

 

[Xamenos]

He's the adopted son of a Swordlord. He'd have some of the best training and education available.

What kind of education and training would that be though?

Hint: It's Swordlord" not "Councilord".

 

[Desiderius]

He's the adopted son of a Swordlord. He'd have some of the best training and education available.

It's an interesting question on several levels but note even that Jamandi herself had trouble maintaining Loyalty in her own country.

Doing so in the Stolen Lands should be a challenge that takes extraordinary insight and an eye for unconventional approaches.

 

[Desiderius]

This question is the entire point of the Tsanna quest (and Nok-nok's).

 

[Gargaune]

Tristian didn’t ultimately betray you. If you’re unmerciful (disloyal) to him

Get that Chaotic Good shit out of here, motherfucker infiltrates your court, then disobeys and flees battle with your rightful plunder. If high treason ain't worth a stiff tie and a short drop, what is? Game's called Kingmaker, not Peacemaker, sack up!

 

[Desiderius]

Tristian didn’t ultimately betray you. If you’re unmerciful (disloyal) to him

Get that Chaotic Good shit out of here, motherfucker infiltrates your court, then disobeys and flees battle with your rightful plunder. If high treason ain't worth a stiff tie and a short drop, what is? Game's called Kingmaker, not Peacemaker, sack up!

Your inability to read is not my problem. God forbid that you'd ever have a kingdom, but if you did I have no trouble imagining you struggling with the loyalty of your people yourself.

This game doesn't coddle dipshits, so your difficulties are accurately reflected in the in-game consequences.

Maybe Stardew Valley would be more your speed.

 

[Reinhardt]

If you can't hang Linzi why would you hang Tristian?

 

[Dodo1610]

Tristian didn’t ultimately betray you. If you’re unmerciful (disloyal) to him

Get that Chaotic Good shit out of here, motherfucker infiltrates your court, then disobeys and flees battle with your rightful plunder. If high treason ain't worth a stiff tie and a short drop, what is? Game's called Kingmaker, not Peacemaker, sack up!

I seriously have no clue how anyone can spare Tristan for any other reason except not wanting to lose another advisor. The guy betrays you and even makes demands after being caught. Even my CN char who literally invited everyone and every creature he met into his kingdom, killed him for his treason.

 

[Gargaune]

Your inability to read is not my problem. God forbid that you'd ever have a kingdom, but if you did I have no trouble imagining you struggling with the loyalty of your people yourself.

This game doesn't coddle dipshits, so your difficulties are accurately reflected in the in-game consequences.

Maybe Stardew Valley would be more your speed.

I had no difficulties because I had Shandra and Tsanna to take care of them, but your not supporting your point is noted. Maybe you could register an alt called Jubilost and try again.

On a different note, it's rather disappointing to see this discussion was split off into a separate thread. The "Baldur's Gate 3" thread seemed an appropriate place to bicker over the true Baldur's Gate successor.

 

[Desiderius]

Who molested all you tough guys in infancy so that you have no concept whatsoever of mercy?

The coldest and hardest fact of all is that there is no true loyalty without mercy. The Tyrant has always to watch his back.

That's what the Ravenous Queen quest is about.

He did not in fact betray you. He was bound before you get there to open the gates and take the Oculus. She would have found someone else to do that if he hadn't, just as she had to every previous kingdom. What he did do was help you defeat each of the challenges she sent, which he did of his own will.

Not his will. Not his betrayal.

He fought her commands, he didn't follow them.

The heavenly reward for mercy: Loyalty and power.

To deny it is perversely self-destructive. Perfect for CN, not for anyone else.

 

[Desiderius]

The above dialogue likely inspired by Milton:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44750/sonnet-19-when-i-consider-how-my-light-is-spent

When I consider how my light is spent,
Ere half my days, in this dark world and wide,
And that one Talent which is death to hide
Lodged with me useless, though my Soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide;
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies, “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts; who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is Kingly. Thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er Land and Ocean without rest:
They also serve who only stand and wait.”

 

[Xamenos]

I seriously have no clue how anyone can spare Tristan for any other reason except not wanting to lose another advisor. The guy betrays you and even makes demands once after being caught. Even my CN char who literally invited everyone and every creature he met into his kingdom, killed him for his treason.

He was stuck in a terrible situation. He was essentially kidnapped and mind-raped into doing Nyrissa's bidding while his goddess abandoned him. Even then he tried to defy her orders and genuinely help you. And he didn't really factor in her plans to undermine your kingdom all that much. Nyrissa could have pulled off the Season of Bloom even without his help, and he did his best to help solve it without compromising his position. And destroying the Oculus (you did get him to destroy it, didn't you?) is objectively the correct choice unless you're both evil and an idiot. It's a capital E Evil artifact, granted by self-serving Daemons, and requiring to be fed souls to function. It has "this is a trap and is bound to turn against you at the worst possible moment" practically written all over it.

Any Good character who does not forgive his "betrayal" and help him back into his goddess's grace is a disgrace to the alignment.

 

[bec de corbin]

Councilor position is indeed shit. There should have been others available as councilor, the current choices/limitations make zero sense whatsoever.

A really obvious one would have been Harrim. Also, the cleric guy whose name I forgot. Jhod or somesuch?

All three make better than sense, they’re all related to what builds loyalty.

Why isn't Kassil a potential councilor then?
It was arbitrary and dumb.

Because he's an orcish teenager. If you think he's going to know anything about securing the loyalty of your people you're an idiot.

On the other hand, it's not like monarchs don't sometimes put unsuitable people in place because they've got no other choice. I think it's probably good to have a fallback option rather than deciding that you didn't take that one woman and no other person in the entire kingdom is willing to even try handling disputes for you

 

[Desiderius]

That isn’t true. There are three. If you fuck up all three you suck at Loyalty and there should be consequences just as there are if you suck at melee or tactics.

Loyalty shouldn’t be easy in the Stolen Lands. Do you wusses all play with your mommy holding your hands?

 

[Storyfag]

Doesn't Jubilost eventually make his own way to your capital if you don't come across his broken wagon? I think I read that somewhere.

They added that in a patch, since missing Jubilost usually meant gg, since the other treasurer got added only with the DLC.

There are two other Treasurers.

Bartholo is evil

Point two in his favour.

 

[Gargaune]

Who molested all you tough guys in infancy so that you have no concept whatsoever of mercy?

The coldest and hardest fact of all is that there is no true loyalty without mercy. The Tyrant has always to watch his back.

That's what the Ravenous Queen quest is about.

He did not in fact betray you. He was bound before you get there to open the gates and take the Oculus. She would have found someone else to do that if he hadn't, just as she had to every previous kingdom. What he did do was help you defeat each of the challenges she sent, which he did of his own will.

[...]

Dunno, I'd say the quality of being "merciful" is somewhat lessened if the reason you're letting someone off is the loyalty of "owing them one." But that's rather beside the point, in Tristian's case what you know by the time you encounter him again - no metagaming! - is that he's infiltrated your court at Nyrissa's behest and has been running his own agenda without your knowledge. Whatever his reasons, he's withheld vital information from you and acted of his own accord in matters which concern your lordship, this is gross misconduct in his position and, yes, treason.

Now if you want to argue that a Neutral Good or Chaotic Good could forgive him, I have no objection. Hell, even a Lawful Good character may well accept his mitigating circumstances. I was rather joking on what state building requires - just rulers are Lawful Neutral, successful ones are Lawful Evil, and both execute Tristian.

If you can't hang Linzi why would you hang Tristian?

Eh, what's the point of public office if you don't embezzle a little?

I seriously have no clue how anyone can spare Tristan for any other reason except not wanting to lose another advisor. The guy betrays you and even makes demands after being caught. Even my CN char who literally invited everyone and every creature he met into his kingdom, killed him for his treason.

Make sure you buddy up with Jaethal and she'll stomp him a second time in HatEoT.

 

[bec de corbin]

That isn’t true. There are three. If you fuck up all three you suck at Loyalty and there should be consequences just as there are if you suck at melee or tactics.

Loyalty shouldn’t be easy in the Stolen Lands. Do you wusses all play with your mommy holding your hands?

are you clinically unable to admit that anything could possibly be poorly-thought-out in this game, what the hell

 

[Reinhardt]

Eh, what's the point of public office if you don't embezzle a little?

What "public office"? Who gave it to her? Little bitch went with retarded gnome in the prologue.