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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
In my current playthrough I have been trying to use the recipes. The end result is the criticism that is going to follow. The reader should keep in mind that this is tough love from someone who fucking loves this game.

I am in my 4rth full playthrough, and it was about time I went over the recipes in the wiki to see if there is anything worthwhile to help expand my strategy.

- There are some +1saves recipes, varying in DC. This is OK but the same effect is given by the free no-ingredients-required recipe at a higher DC, so it is not terribly exciting.

- There are +walking speed recipes. I doubt anyone is using this.

- There are +delay daily fatigue. I doubt anyone is using this one too.

- There are +HP recipes. Extremely uninteresting.

- There are a couple of strong recipes with rare ingredients. These are fun, but minor in terms of gameplay due to the rarity. Anyway, no complaints for these.

- There is a +3 skill check recipe. This is kinda cool.

- There are the +1attack/+2damage/+1AC recipes. While not spectacular, I guess these are reasonable. I doubt any people will be using them, even though the +1attack one is actually useful.

- Finally, there is a +3 Fortitude recipe, which is arguably the best non-rare recipe in the game.

All in all, it looks like in most cases the player is better off selling the ingredients and making at least some money, while avoiding the sorting/organizing and the weight "cost". There are a couple of good recipes in there, but I believe that the whole system isn't as interesting as it could have been.

An easy way to make this better would be to add recipes that give
+3will
+3reflexes
"protection from" recipes
+2attack or +3damage or +2AC against specific enemies
minimum skill recipes (a specific skill is set to a specific value for all party members who have less than that)
morality recipes (+attack/+dam against certain alignment, but you cannot make dialogue choices of that alignment)
power attack recipes (+2dam -4attack)
inverse power attack recipes (+2attack -4dam or sth like that)

Well, this is the best I can do. The above suggestions do not mean to make the game easier, they mean to make the recipe system more interesting, and secondarily they also mean to reward players who know what they are doing. If some opponent stats need to be adjusted in order to make up for the above bonuses, so be it.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Pay attention to Personal Favorites. My default is the fatigue delay. Galt Ragout is good for both.
 

Xamenos

Magister
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Just like Desiderius, delaying fatigue was the one I used the most. Saved me quite a bit of time. I do agree most of the rest were uninteresting and could do with a rework though.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
They're better than they look since they stack, especially the higher DC since that is hard to get.

But yeah with that many recipes they could have gotten some more variety in there.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
You can. Cheese Crossata is even better for ch 4 because it’s Harrim’s favorite and that’s his best chapter.
 

Trashos

Arcane
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Dec 28, 2015
Messages
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We are getting confused here. You are talking about the "personal favorite" effect, but I am talking about the general effect. Is this correct?
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
No, both. The longer you can travel without fatigue the less time you waste resting. If you travel light and make sure everybody has 12-14 CON you can go clear across the map without resting on fatigue food.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
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3,413
I am still completely missing what you are gaining from delaying fatigue. We probably have different strategies of traveling around, but I really cannot see it. How often do you need to go from one side to the other, and what practical difference will that recipe make? Not to mention that if you are visiting places with combat on the way, you will want to be resting to renew the spells anyway.

But fine, if some people actually find this useful, I guess it can stay!
 

Xamenos

Magister
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Not to mention that if you are visiting places with combat on the way, you will want to be resting to renew the spells anyway.
I suspect this is where we differ. I do not rest after every encounter, or even after every area when clearing the map. It is very rare that I rest when I'm not fatigued when not progressing the main quest. You just have to be frugal with your spells, and generous with your consumables.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,326
Location
Flowery Land
Really, the Linzi quest would have been better received if you could have given her some non-lethal non-permanent punishment. Put her in stocks for a few days. Have her whipped. Force her to warm your bed. SOMETHING more than just "You did a bad thing, don't do it again."

- There are +walking speed recipes. I doubt anyone is using this.

- There are +delay daily fatigue. I doubt anyone is using this one too.

:what:

The extra time awake recipies are great if you can get the ingredients for one in large quantity. The extra waking hours cut down on overland travel time dramatically over time (an extra four hours before resting=an extra day's worth of travel every six days you make it). Walking speed increase is meh in RtWP mode, but it's very useful in turn based (at least it was with the mod version). +2 to damage is useful if your party has many characters that attack multiple times (dual wielding, archer) as that adds up really quickly (archers consistently pop off three or four attacks a turn=6-8 extra damage per character)
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
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OK, so for the "delay fatigue" recipe: you guys are basically telling me that it is better (or at least equally acceptable) play to go somewhere slightly sooner, and it does not add significant risk that you will be going there without the bonuses of the actually useful recipes or without your spells. I will argue that if you do not need your spells and the other recipe bonuses, then in all probability you do not need to be rested or that quick either.


suspect this is where we differ. I do not rest after every encounter, or even after every area when clearing the map. It is very rare that I rest when I'm not fatigued when not progressing the main quest. You just have to be frugal with your spells, and generous with your consumables.

I do the same thing you do within a map (I manage my spells properly). However, this is too much to ask for separate locations, where the long-lasting buffs' "long-lasting" feature becomes meaningless due to the travel time (say, Barkskin, for example). Sometimes you can do without such buffs, but more often it is just bad strategy to enter a location with such spells not available. So I will take a rest before the second location.

Walking speed increase is meh in RtWP mode, but it's very useful in turn based

OK, I had not thought of that at all, since I play RTwP.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
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Until you get to the bullshit late game ones, random encounters are rarely meaningful enough you need the bonuses from food, but more exploration time is always helpful.
 
Joined
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The Present
Just like Desiderius, delaying fatigue was the one I used the most. Saved me quite a bit of time. I do agree most of the rest were uninteresting and could do with a rework though.

Amen. Agreed with you both. Extending the adventuring day by 4 hours lets you squeeze in another area before getting it with fatigue, depending on your map location. Easily the best, even after you have teleporters everywhere.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Speed is just as important in RTwP as it is in TB obviously, the same things are happening even if you’re not as aware of them. Burning a whole turn just moving is disastrous and speed determines Charge range. There are just usually easier ways to get it than food.

On traveling what usually happens is that you have your spells refreshed from ranking up in town so that you want to get somewhere without having to rest again just from fatigue.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
You really shouldn't rest unless you're exhausted (-6 physicals).
Fatigued (-2) is not a big deal if you're not dealing with serious battles.
At lvl 12 the Bard song is able to restore fatigue.
The community domain's touch also can remove it.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Agreed, same principle in that the food delays exhaustion as well. Always found that touch ended up being better than the 8th level ability everyone wanted. Hard to pass up Nobility though.
 

Technomancer

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,417
I tried to build 4 sized party without fatigue issues. Not so easy, main kineticist char with crazy CON can get going for ages, Jaethal is immune and varnhold amulet grants immunity to another body. Sadly the nano bracelet only grants immunity on lvl 20.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
random encounters are rarely meaningful enough you need the bonuses from food, but more exploration time is always helpful.

I didn't mean random encounters, I meant visiting secondary locations on your way to visiting the main destination.

On traveling what usually happens is that you have your spells refreshed from ranking up in town so that you want to get somewhere without having to rest again just from fatigue.

Even in such a case, you will get there sooner but without the +1 to saves or whatever other bonus you may need at the destination.

OK, I know I am busting everyone's balls rn, but in the case of delay fatigue there are really only 2 major scenarios:

a) Either you are perfectly confident that you are not going to need +1 in saves/attack etc where you are going
b) Or you are taking risk by trying to get somewhere sooner.

If you are taking on nontrivial risk, then it is bad play. The reload button may save you by giving you another chance, but it is still bad play. But if you guys find yourselves in the condition of (a), then I am perfectly OK with it.

(And it is not like you fundamentally need all that pace. I have mentioned before that my empire got to 6 regions (maximum possible before Varnhold) before Season of the Bloom had even started. I did that without using any of that delay-fatigue wizardry.)
 

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