Why do people like Disco Elysium's writing so much?

[FreeKaner]

I'm aware of the crudeness of the working class. They don't talk like that, except on twitter or 4chan or what have you.

It's no longer the early 2000s. Everyone is on the internet now.

 

[Darkzone]

"Akira Kurosawa mode". It's the first time many gamers ever heard of him

I don't believe that. Every person with average knowledge about the world knows who Akira is.

I don't think that many gamers knew and now know who Akira Kurosawa was and how amazing and influential his movies are, but Ghost of Tsushima is an opportunity to learn for them so that they can ditch the modern cinema and the woke movies.
As my daughter has learned much about the stone age due to Dawn of Man (she is perhaps more intelligent than i am or i do a good job in educating her) and so the gamers can now also learn something about good cinema. For me Ghost of Tsushima would be the only reason why i would buy myself a PS4 to play it in Akira Kurosawa mode.

 

[Roguey]

Fuck,you sound like a delusional and spoiled upper class sheltered kid. Who the fuck talk like that "I'm aware of the crudeness of the working class." buahahahahahahahahahahaha ?!?!?!?!?!

It is clear that the weird one is you mate,people do talk like in the game,but you don't talk like normal people.

I'm on the spectrum, but I was neither spoiled nor upper class.

Twitter dialogue has also affected some movies and shows in my periphery on account of writers spending 24/7 on twitter, it's awful.

It's no longer the early 2000s. Everyone is on the internet now.

The internet self is not the in-person self.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I'm aware of the crudeness of the working class. They don't talk like that,

Roguey, studying the behavior of working class

 

[Ninjerk]

You guys think welders, linesmen, and construction workers are sitting around bitching about women riding the cock carousel like a bunch of NEETs? They're out drinking fucking Busch and Natural Light (the worst tier of American beer that I'm aware of) and drilling trailer park queens. They don't talk like that. Roguey is right.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

It’s always been very important to me that in my RPGs, people talk like they do in my real life

 

[bec de corbin]

the only fiction that is any good is fiction where everyone speaks exactly like they do in real life, which is why anything published more than ten years ago is trash, throw mark twain in the garbage, who even has a picket fence anymore

 

[fantadomat]

You guys think welders, linesmen, and construction workers are sitting around bitching about women riding the cock carousel like a bunch of NEETs? They're out drinking fucking Busch and Natural Light (the worst tier of American beer that I'm aware of) and drilling trailer park queens. They don't talk like that. Roguey is right.

Too much films,mate lol. You should spend more time among normal people and stop having this weird nerd view of reality. Not everyone is a libtard scum that wants to fuck every walking cunt. Most people want to have wife and decent family lol,that is why they are normal. Most workers talk like that because they like to brag,even if it is not true most of the time. You will be surprised at how many people at how many people have joked about how some wench had blown their cock off. Clearly you haven't worked in such environment........or i will give you that,it could be cultural difference.

It’s always been very important to me that in my RPGs, people talk like they do in my real life

That is the point,it is extremely rare to find fiction that written in realistic manner.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I liked the dialogue. It struck a good balance of ideological caricature and authenticity.

 

[fantadomat]

I liked the dialogue. It struck a good balance of ideological caricature and authenticity.

Yeah,caricatures work because you know that there such deranged people out there .

 

[Serus]

I'm a combatfag myself, and I will always state that even the best writing in the games is equal to mostly mediocre literature, but games offer one valuable advantage: they are interactive. Books are mostly passive endeavor, while you consume page upon a page; games give you the chance to participate in the story and change it according to your actions.

Here I must disagree. In vast majority of games you have interactivity - yes, but the story part itself is almost never really interactive. At most you have some minor choices and maybe a few different endings. But that comes only after the end of gameply - duh. The story itself is almost always static. Even the so praised on codex C&C-heavy crpgs essentially fall under that category. Your notion that the player can change the story according to his actions is imo simply false. You almost never change the story in any significant way. And I mean the story itself. If it's a story about heroic rescue of a princess you will always have to journey to her rescue. At best you'll have the opportunity to chose slightly different ways. And maybe - in rare games - you will be able to choose to side with the kidnapper in the outro. But it still will about a journey to rescue the princess and your choices will affect only secondary parts of the story, or what happens after the gameplay ends. Disco might be one of very rare exceptions - I wouldn't know, I haven't played it (yet?).
This is what bothers me about the "storyfag" games. As you said - good books have better writing than the best games. The only disadvantage of stories in books is that they don't have interactivity... which is mostly fake and inconsequential in games. Why bother with such games then? Is it for the illusion of being able to change the story?

 

[Ninjerk]

You guys think welders, linesmen, and construction workers are sitting around bitching about women riding the cock carousel like a bunch of NEETs? They're out drinking fucking Busch and Natural Light (the worst tier of American beer that I'm aware of) and drilling trailer park queens. They don't talk like that. Roguey is right.

Too much films,mate lol. You should spend more time among normal people and stop having this weird nerd view of reality. Not everyone is a libtard scum that wants to fuck every walking cunt. Most people want to have wife and decent family lol,that is why they are normal. Most workers talk like that because they like to brag,even if it is not true most of the time. You will be surprised at how many people at how many people have joked about how some wench had blown their cock off. Clearly you haven't worked in such environment........or i will give you that,it could be cultural difference.

It’s always been very important to me that in my RPGs, people talk like they do in my real life

That is the point,it is extremely rare to find fiction that written in realistic manner.

Mate, I was the bartender for these people. My dad and all his friends were construction workers. No one, and I mean no one, talks about cock carousels. That shit is the creation of an echo chamber made of shut-in virgins. I didn't read the rest of your post. G'day

 

[Tigranes]

Come to this thread, learn from hard man fanta about how real working class chaps discourse

 

[fantadomat]

Come to this thread, learn from hard man fanta about how real working class chaps discourse

Not that hard,unless there is some new good rpg coming out . Just have enough social experience to know that shit,spend a lot of time in bars chatting up random people. People generally talk about drinking,women,work and politics while complaining about not enough money . As i said,it could be cultural differences. Also what the fuck is a trailer park?

 

[Popiel]

It's not a deep game. It's not a very interesting game philosophically. Planescape: Torment offers more to think about in a single area than Disco Elysium does in its entire span. However, the act of reading Disco Elysium is pretty fun. The prose is snappy, the jokes had a pretty good success rate for me, and it was refreshing to be able to play such an abject loser. The art style and music also help to create a unique atmosphere of melancholy. When characters talk about Revachol's best days being behind them, you can fully imagine it.

There's unfortunately a culture of dipshits who only heard about Disco Elysium because commie game journalists gave it such gushing coverage. These people are eager to pontificate on the depth of Disco Elysium's social and political commentary in words they only misunderstand, and their insufferability has rubbed off on the game to some extent. It should also be noted that Disco Elysium ultimately fails as a detective game, as the story is on rails and doesn't allow you to actually solve the murder yourself.

Yep. I rarely find an opinion on the 'dex with which I so strongly agree. Thanks mate.

It's a game written by people who obviously are witty and have way with words. It's not an eighth wonder. Its commentary isn't on the level of college-grade big-brain philosophers (as some journalists would love you to believe). It takes some honest jabs at everyone and it’s not really overtly subtle ‘bout them. It tells a profoundly human story ‘bout personal failure, wasted life and simple joys. Writin’ in team with graphics and music creates a wonderful sense of atmosphere, melancholy, bleakness and grey. It has some very interestin’ gameplay ideas (yeah, you edgy fuckers will disagree, but makin’ aspects of PCs personality separate characters – that was good shit, even if it was utilised to its full majestic potential only from time to time, i.e. sparsely) which are connected with narrative. And it has some major flaws. It’s railroaded to Seven Hells and back. It’s often pretentious. And silly. It obviously wants to promote an ideology (said ideology is personified by Kim – that is just-be-a-good-person-ism).

Greatest of them flaws was, for me, a result of the decision to set aforementioned personal drama in a fairy-tale, overboard, pastel setting, politics of which are just that: pastel, fairy-tale and overboard. But autists will fixate on them, missin’ the bigger picture.

And above all that it has what other edgy fuckers in the internets call a soul. That’s why it draws people in. If you wouldn’t be so poisoned by years in this place you would appreciate it methinks.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Not that hard,unless there is some new good rpg coming out . Just have enough social experience to know that shit,spend a lot of time in bar chatting up random people. People generally talk about drinking,women,work and politics while complaining about not enough money . As i said,it could be cultural differences. Also what the fuck is a trailer park?

As a blue-collar myself I shall add that any dialogue that doesn't have profanities every three words is not a realistic depiction of working class speech.

 

[Gordian Nutt]

As a blue-collar myself I shall add that any dialogue that doesn't have profanities every three words is not a realistic depiction of working class speech.

I know it may seem like I keep arguing with you but it is with best spirit.

"Realistic" does not matter - using profanity every three words is often sign of a poor or new writer who loves the work "fuck" and thinks it is clever they get to use big naughty words now

 

[fantadomat]

It's not a deep game. It's not a very interesting game philosophically. Planescape: Torment offers more to think about in a single area than Disco Elysium does in its entire span. However, the act of reading Disco Elysium is pretty fun. The prose is snappy, the jokes had a pretty good success rate for me, and it was refreshing to be able to play such an abject loser. The art style and music also help to create a unique atmosphere of melancholy. When characters talk about Revachol's best days being behind them, you can fully imagine it.

There's unfortunately a culture of dipshits who only heard about Disco Elysium because commie game journalists gave it such gushing coverage. These people are eager to pontificate on the depth of Disco Elysium's social and political commentary in words they only misunderstand, and their insufferability has rubbed off on the game to some extent. It should also be noted that Disco Elysium ultimately fails as a detective game, as the story is on rails and doesn't allow you to actually solve the murder yourself.

Yep. I rarely find an opinion on the 'dex with which I so strongly agree. Thanks mate.

It's a game written by people who obviously are witty and have way with words. It's not an eighth wonder. Its commentary isn't on the level of college-grade big-brain philosophers (as some journalists would love you to believe). It takes some honest jabs at everyone and it’s not really overtly subtle ‘bout them. It tells a profoundly human story ‘bout personal failure, wasted life and simple joys. Writin’ in team with graphics and music creates a wonderful sense of atmosphere, melancholy, bleakness and grey. It has some very interestin’ gameplay ideas (yeah, you edgy fuckers will disagree, but makin’ aspects of PCs personality separate characters – that was good shit, even if it was utilised to its full majestic potential only from time to time, i.e. sparsely) which are connected with narrative. And it has some major flaws. It’s railroaded to Seven Hells and back. It’s often pretentious. And silly. It obviously wants to promote an ideology (said ideology is personified by Kim – that is just-be-a-good-person-ism).

Greatest of them flaws was, for me, a result of the decision to set aforementioned personal drama in a fairy-tale, overboard, pastel setting, politics of which are just that: pastel, fairy-tale and overboard. But autists will fixate on them, missin’ the bigger picture.

And above all that it has what other edgy fuckers in the internets call a soul. That’s why it draws people in. If you wouldn’t be so poisoned by years in this place you would appreciate it methinks.

I pretty much agree with you both. Tho i don't think that torment is some deep experience that changes your life and views. Its biggest message is "don't sell your soul to evil old witches that live on a desolate plane",i doubt that many codexer will come head to head with such conundrum.

As for disco....the biggest problem is the lack of detective things to do. As Butter said,the main mystery is pretty straight forward and doesn't need much of the player's actions to be found out. The game is a pretty good drama about human life and the regrets that come with time. Butter ,i disagree that it is a wasted life since nearly all people end up in the same place after some time. Not talking about literally a naked amnesiac in a hotel room . Most people end up a bit miserable with questions about "what if?" and regrets about decision that they had made. That is why the writing is human,it represents something that most normal people could relay to.

Popiel what do you mean by fairy tale? If it is about the supernatural aspect,well i loved that shit.

 

[Gordian Nutt]

I pretty much agree with you both. Tho i don't think that torment is some deep experience that changes your life and views. Its biggest message is "don't sell your soul to evil old witches that live on a desolate plane",i doubt that many codexer will come head to head with such conundrum.

I played it and saw the message as one cannot avoid responsibility forever, and taking a shortcut to make it right only causes more harm to everyone around you whether you know it or not

Oh and an honest representation of alignment system that does not assign alignment until a player actually roleplays

 

[fantadomat]

As a blue-collar myself I shall add that any dialogue that doesn't have profanities every three words is not a realistic depiction of working class speech.

I know it may seem like I keep arguing with you but it is with best spirit.

"Realistic" does not matter - using profanity every three words is often sign of a poor or new writer who loves the work "fuck" and thinks it is clever they get to use big naughty words now

Ahh not really,depends on the setting and the characters. For me a novel that lacks profanities kind of feels fake. It is all about how you place it. Sure if everyone is constantly "fucking" every three words,yeah it is a poor writing. Now if you have it set in a fucking mining town of which half the people are former convicts and everyone is polite and talks right....well yeah that one is poor writing too.

 

[Popiel]

Its biggest message is "don't sell your soul to evil old witches that live on a desolate plane",i doubt that many codexer will come head to head with such conundrum.

Well, I would argue that, but that's neither here nor there. Mainly just typin' a dot to display my disagreement. Planescape is a typical symbolic piece. It asks a question ‘bout how does one deal with their regrets, guilts and choices – with their torment, which is all internal, like Hermes says in Hadestown musical: between your ears, behind your eyes (with a small caveat that what’s there in your mind manifests physically due to rules of Planescape setting). All companions reflect this theme and story of the Nameless One is a parable all in itself – ‘bout traps and dangers of seekin’ easy ways out of consequences of bein’ yourself. After all best ending is considered to be the one in which you fully embrace yourself and in consequence loose your soul to the Blood War, an endless punishment which you fully deserve.

Popiel what do you mean by fairy tale? If it is about the supernatural aspect,well i loved that shit.

Not that (I also quite liked the supernatural of Disco). I meant style of the setting. It's deliberately overexaggerated, painted with way too bright colours and with way too stark contours. It’s a fairy-tale, just with ghostly corporate managers, cyclopean union bosses and typical fallen angel-unfallen angel figures with Mr Bulbasaur and Kim respectively playin’ their parts. This world is deliberately very unreal with how it looks, how it feels and how it operates. It’s best I can describe what I mean.

As for the feelin’ of the setting: argument can be made that it’s all ‘cause we see the world only through the filter PCs deranged mind. But that’s another story.

 

[fantadomat]

I pretty much agree with you both. Tho i don't think that torment is some deep experience that changes your life and views. Its biggest message is "don't sell your soul to evil old witches that live on a desolate plane",i doubt that many codexer will come head to head with such conundrum.

I played it and saw the message as one cannot avoid responsibility forever, and taking a shortcut to make it right only causes more harm to everyone around you whether you know it or not

Oh and an honest representation of alignment system that does not assign alignment until a player actually roleplays

Ahh that is a bit moral view,but i do agree. I don't see the protagonist that much as a failure,tho you could make him with choices you do. The guy is pretty good detective and enough of a decent man to have his coworkers like him and ready to put their neck on the line. His major flaw is getting shitfaced too frequently,i do get that when you get dumped by some love,you will fucking get shitfaced for a few days. Now you could make his really pathetic creature with actions you take,like shoving a finger up his ass or fucking a door knob.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Sure if everyone is constantly "fucking" every three words,yeah it is a poor writing.

That's the thing, English lacks more colourful and diverse profanities. It's mostly about fuck and fucking, quite boring.

 

[Popiel]

Ahh that is a bit moral view,but i do agree. I don't see the protagonist that much as a failure,tho you could make him with choices you do. The guy is pretty good detective and enough of a decent man to have his coworkers like him and ready to put their neck on the line. His major flaw is getting shitfaced too frequently,i do get that when you get dumped by some love,you will fucking get shitfaced for a few days. Now you could make his really pathetic creature with actions you take,like shoving a finger up his ass or fucking a door knob.

Yeah, not really. You’re told almost explicitly that while Harry is a good detective he’s also a terrible human person who lost his wife ‘cause of it (and judgin’ by the dreams and this phone call he also managed to fuck up her life pretty solidly as well), who lost respect of his co-workers ‘cause of it, who lost his life, self-respect and health ‘cause of it. He literally damaged himself beyond repair, and this full fall is a typical new start – when player finds him naked in his motel room.

 

[Gordian Nutt]

Now if you have it set in a fucking mining town of which half the people are former convicts and everyone is polite and talks right....well yeah that one is poor writing too.

Agree.

That's the thing, English lacks more colourful and diverse profanities. It's mostly about fuck and fucking, quite boring.

Agree but sometimes a mix of constant "imaginative" insults - like Neegan in TWD - can also get boring after a while since all you think is "what dumb profanity will writer think up next to show how clever they are" so even creative overuse can be bad

It is even worse when it is the same character since I would think most characters resort to a limited arsenal in casual, reactive talk

But is all in the pacing, I guess