Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

[Tom Baker's Arse]

It was fun at the time...when I was 10

It was fun at the time...when I was in my late 30s

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I need to torture myself with it, Bardstale, Might & Magic, and swords & Serpents.

Actually M&M and S&S are pretty good. Had fun mapping S&S

 

[Ol' Willy]

Tried DOS version today, and eh, it didn't hook me up much.
Character creation is cool, although the game favors the bloody elfs giving them most class options.
Code wheel thingy is fun even with browser substitute (I can imagine it being much cooler with printed original version).
Interface is really clunky. While Wasteland supports mouse to some degree, Gold Box does not. By that point playing RPGs with mouse is ingrained too deep in my subconscious.
While Wasteland has blobber combat, Gold Box games have blobber exploration. I never was a fan of blobbers. Not my cup of tea at all.

I didn't make it far to see some more challenging fights, but the blobber exploration and clunky interface are the two main showstoppers to me.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

The best version was the amiga one. Nice music too.

 

[Incendax]

They are not level scaled, but scaled to your stats. Give your guys 18 in all stats and you'll face larger groups of enemies.

It's both. You'll encounter far more enemies (in lower level areas) at higher levels than lower levels. If you have straight 18s at max level, it can be a ridiculous number of kobolds/orcs/whatever. I mean, it's fun to explode them with fireballs a few times... but it gets old.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Amiga was slow though. I even tried emulated abd it was sluggish. Pity pc wasn't ubered up to the amiga version.

 

[almondblight]

I didn't make it far to see some more challenging fights, but the blobber exploration and clunky interface are the two main showstoppers to me.

Yeah, those were the two main things that eventually lead me to drop it. It's not just blobber exploration, but poor blobber exploration, with most places looking like nondescript empty squares. The town is a good example of how poorly the first person exploration is - there are only 3 shops, but the game makes them all look the same, and then copies and pastes them over and over again all next to each other. So you're left wondering - "Eh, was the shop I want the third awning on this street or the second one? Or maybe I'm thinking of the cross street?" The game would have been a lot better if they just used something like the outdoor map for all exploration.

Another issue is that a lot of the fights are boring slogs where they through tons of trash mobs with idiotic AI at you. For instance, the only fight that really stood out for me from the slums was the optional troll fight in the maze.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, if you look at the mobs like that then most old games to perhaps even now must be boring slogs.

 

[octavius]

Amiga was slow though. I even tried emulated abd it was sluggish. Pity pc wasn't ubered up to the amiga version.

The Amiga version of PoR seems to have been poorly programmed/optimized. For the rest of the series the Amiga versions were clearly superior, except for the game breaking Cloak of Displacement bug (makes wearer immune to all physical attacks) in Secrets.
I especially like the pre-made, nice looking combat icons in the Krynn games, that only became standard with Dark Queen for the DOS games IIRC.

 

[Jarpie]

If you play PoR on amiga emulator, I'd set winuae for 68020 and some memory, and for NTSC, not PAL, games on PAL machines ran worse if they were programmed in North America.

Edit: the speed difference in games between NTSC and PAL machines is (IIRC) mostly due 60hz vs. 50hz, making PAL machines essentially 17% slower. Games made in Europe tends to run at proper speed, as they were made for PAL.

 

[kazuya394]

I tried to play the DOS version years ago but couldn't get past the blob-movement with the tiny window. Fortunately the NES port has a nice big window right in the center of the screen, which made it a bit more palatable.

Sure, it comes with its share of dumbing down/streamlining. I couldn't make my own characters; I had to choose from a lengthy list (you still roll stats though) and only up to five. I find the removal of ammo management and the integration of journal entries into the game itself a plus. I didn't get two attacks per round with bows like the rules say I should, but I can't remember if this was a feature in original Pool of Radiance or not, and I can't be bothered to reinstall, roll new characters, buy bows and arrows, and get into a fight to test it out.

Unfortunately the port did not improve the experience by including the Fix command. The interface is as clunky as ever when it comes to buying and selling equipment, training characters, memorizing spells, etc. I was also annoyed by how equipment stats aren't viewable in the game itself, but I managed with my metaknowledge of AD&D.

On the subject of metaknowledge, it would be obnoxious to go through this without looking at maps from a guide, particularly when it comes to quests where you have to clear out a map of all enemies. So much step by step walking, so much mandatory backtracking.

The incredibly miss-heavy combat at the beginning demands the constant use of sleep to Win just to make it tolerable. This results in a massively degenerate fight/rest cycle. Additionally, while "random encounters will disappear after you kill a fixed amount" sounds good on paper, this also encourages a degenerate playstyle of intentionally triggering them (I found out accidentally that leaving search mode on makes them far more likely because moving to a new square takes ten minutes instead of one) and then backing off to a safe area to rest.

It's utterly absurd how you can pay just 5 gold to fix yourself up to your heart's content at an inn (when you're not resting outside for free) but a single casting of cure light wounds at a temple costs 100 gold (!!!!!!!!). Phlan needs a Jesus figure to come down to the temple to take on the money-changers, these guys are ripping everyone off.

It's also lousy how being poisoned makes you incapacitated and the only thing you can do is drag the character to a temple and pay 1000 to cure it. Though of course I didn't do that, I just reloaded. It's also a drag how there's no way to buy any kind of potions or spells; furthermore, potions don't stack, and each character can only have 8 items in their inventory (including the stuff they're wearing) so an inventory can get filled up quickly.

As for combat content, let me put it this way: out of the 24 mandatory fights you have to go through to clear the slums, only two provided a challenge. That's a terrible ratio. The other areas I cleared had far fewer battles, but they also weren't providing enough of interest. There were just two more battles I liked in the rest of what I played (which was clearing Sokal Keep and the library, and eavesdropping on an auction which didn't involve combat at all but wasn't particularly interesting). The most I can say in its favor is that I like how enemies will surrender when it's clear the battle is lost (when can this feature come back?).

Typical PoR encounter design right here.

I don't see the point in playing any further, I imagine the combat and backtracking are only going to get more obnoxious. Perhaps there may be an area or areas later on that will lock you in to prevent degenerate resting, but who cares? Scorpia was correct to call this a boring meat grinder. The crpgers of the 80s and early 90s must have been hard up to play anything resembling a role playing game to tolerate all of this and all the other same-engine clones. The potential was there, but it appears as though no one actually did anything with it. "Strategic" indeed.

Stupid coddled millenial opinion.
Do you get upset that you need to move your feet to walk, too, or that you need to get out bed to shower?

It's not the best game ever, but it's hardly the slog that you make it out to be.

The saddest thing about my generation is that they think fun needs to be spoonfed to them. If you're looking for an experience that does down smooth like a fine wine, or that is going to blow your mind with clever design complexity, why in the hell would you get into 1980's SSI RPGs? This is bleep-bloop age, people, when computers and D&D were for nerds just happy to see a Monster Manual entry come to life a bit, and that they weren't getting shaken down for pocket change by their local chudster.

Just play the game, folks--or don't. Tons of people like it. If you don't, that's fine. But it doesn't mean that your opinion is well-informed or worth a crap. Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop that relies more on TnA than anything else. And then there's Starfield--jeezus christ.

My two bits. Still luv ya.

 

[jaekl]

Damn, you signed up just to shit on roguey for his actions 5 years ago? That's pretty messed up, there's gotta be a statute of limitations on video game trash talk.

 

[Butter]

Wizardry 7 is from the same era as the Gold Box games and it blows Pool of Radiance out of the water on presentation, mechanics, and overall depth. Even Wizardry 6 with its single tileset is still a match for it. I forget who it was, but somebody said the Gold Box games are like fast food, and I have to agree. They're a lot of fun while you play them, but they don't nourish you the way some of their contemporaries do.

 

[Desiderius]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Wizardry and Gold Box are two very different tactical games. You play goldbox because you like moving your chess pieces around in combat. SSI has always been strategic combat with a few exceptions (well, a lot of exceptions but the core catalog has been strategy albeit mostly war games).

 

[Lemming42]

Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop

It's funny that you say that when PoR is about as close as a Western RPG gets to being a jRPG. Same battles every five steps, same mindless autopilot strategies to win 90% of battles without having to think, economy busted in the first 30 mins of the game, etc.

 

[mondblut]

I tried to play the DOS version years ago but couldn't get past the blob-movement with the tiny window. Fortunately the NES port has a nice big window right in the center of the screen, which made it a bit more palatable.

Sure, it comes with its share of dumbing down/streamlining. I couldn't make my own characters; I had to choose from a lengthy list (you still roll stats though) and only up to five. I find the removal of ammo management and the integration of journal entries into the game itself a plus. I didn't get two attacks per round with bows like the rules say I should, but I can't remember if this was a feature in original Pool of Radiance or not, and I can't be bothered to reinstall, roll new characters, buy bows and arrows, and get into a fight to test it out.

Unfortunately the port did not improve the experience by including the Fix command. The interface is as clunky as ever when it comes to buying and selling equipment, training characters, memorizing spells, etc. I was also annoyed by how equipment stats aren't viewable in the game itself, but I managed with my metaknowledge of AD&D.

On the subject of metaknowledge, it would be obnoxious to go through this without looking at maps from a guide, particularly when it comes to quests where you have to clear out a map of all enemies. So much step by step walking, so much mandatory backtracking.

The incredibly miss-heavy combat at the beginning demands the constant use of sleep to Win just to make it tolerable. This results in a massively degenerate fight/rest cycle. Additionally, while "random encounters will disappear after you kill a fixed amount" sounds good on paper, this also encourages a degenerate playstyle of intentionally triggering them (I found out accidentally that leaving search mode on makes them far more likely because moving to a new square takes ten minutes instead of one) and then backing off to a safe area to rest.

It's utterly absurd how you can pay just 5 gold to fix yourself up to your heart's content at an inn (when you're not resting outside for free) but a single casting of cure light wounds at a temple costs 100 gold (!!!!!!!!). Phlan needs a Jesus figure to come down to the temple to take on the money-changers, these guys are ripping everyone off.

It's also lousy how being poisoned makes you incapacitated and the only thing you can do is drag the character to a temple and pay 1000 to cure it. Though of course I didn't do that, I just reloaded. It's also a drag how there's no way to buy any kind of potions or spells; furthermore, potions don't stack, and each character can only have 8 items in their inventory (including the stuff they're wearing) so an inventory can get filled up quickly.

As for combat content, let me put it this way: out of the 24 mandatory fights you have to go through to clear the slums, only two provided a challenge. That's a terrible ratio. The other areas I cleared had far fewer battles, but they also weren't providing enough of interest. There were just two more battles I liked in the rest of what I played (which was clearing Sokal Keep and the library, and eavesdropping on an auction which didn't involve combat at all but wasn't particularly interesting). The most I can say in its favor is that I like how enemies will surrender when it's clear the battle is lost (when can this feature come back?).

Typical PoR encounter design right here.

I don't see the point in playing any further, I imagine the combat and backtracking are only going to get more obnoxious. Perhaps there may be an area or areas later on that will lock you in to prevent degenerate resting, but who cares? Scorpia was correct to call this a boring meat grinder. The crpgers of the 80s and early 90s must have been hard up to play anything resembling a role playing game to tolerate all of this and all the other same-engine clones. The potential was there, but it appears as though no one actually did anything with it. "Strategic" indeed.

Stupid coddled millenial opinion.
Do you get upset that you need to move your feet to walk, too, or that you need to get out bed to shower?

It's not the best game ever, but it's hardly the slog that you make it out to be.

The saddest thing about my generation is that they think fun needs to be spoonfed to them. If you're looking for an experience that does down smooth like a fine wine, or that is going to blow your mind with clever design complexity, why in the hell would you get into 1980's SSI RPGs? This is bleep-bloop age, people, when computers and D&D were for nerds just happy to see a Monster Manual entry come to life a bit, and that they weren't getting shaken down for pocket change by their local chudster.

Just play the game, folks--or don't. Tons of people like it. If you don't, that's fine. But it doesn't mean that your opinion is well-informed or worth a crap. Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop that relies more on TnA than anything else. And then there's Starfield--jeezus christ.

My two bits. Still luv ya.

This might be the best first post on the codex. Welcome whose alt are you?

 

[mondblut]

Give me a Gold Box game of any kind over the mainstream Jrpg incel slop

It's funny that you say that when PoR is about as close as a Western RPG gets to being a jRPG. Same battles every five steps, same mindless autopilot strategies to win 90% of battles without having to think, economy busted in the first 30 mins of the game, etc.

Funny. I thought JRPGs are about being railroaded by the hair of your neck through a ridiculous plot over an inane world, about being forcefed with insufferable 12 years old emo fag characters (who might or might not be wisened 80 years old martial arts grandmasters or 8000 years old dragon princesses, you tell the difference, they still look and behave like tweeners), about nonsensical game mechanics with stats and attributes going into four digits... turns out, it's all about busted economy! Silly me.

 

[Roguey]

Pools of Darkness came out before Wiz7. Different era.

Dark Sun would be more roughly contemporary (or Ultima Underworld).

Yeah, 1988 was the year of Wizardry V, Ultima V, Might and Magic II, and Wasteland. Primitive curiosities. I did actually finish Wasteland though.

 

[Lemming42]

Funny. I thought JRPGs are about being railroaded by the hair of your neck through a ridiculous plot over an inane world, about being forcefed with insufferable 12 years old emo fag characters (who might or might not be wisened 80 years old martial arts grandmasters or 8000 years old dragon princesses, you tell the difference, they still look and behave like tweeners), about nonsensical game mechanics with stats and attributes going into four digits... turns out, it's all about busted economy! Silly me.

Right, yeah, that too. I was thinking of PoR's contemporaries like the first Final Fantasy, which is just a semi-nonlinear overworld with maze-like dungeons where you'll have to do the same handful of fights per area every few steps, which are typically pretty trivial to start with and can be even more trivilaised with use of multi-target spells, like in PoR. Also as in PoR, you end up overloaded with money very early on, which makes things even more of a breeze.

Also features the same joy of camping repeatedly to replenish healing spells.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

NES, Master System, Snes, and Genesis ports of certain games are kind of intriguing in what they do. Some seem close. I'm mostly talking about Ultima, Wizardry, Bardstale, Might & Magic, Goldbox & other D&D titles. I suppose Magic Candle is another NES port. I need a short list of games and which of the four consoles.

I don't believe Curse of Azure bonds made it to port. Dragon Strike was drastically changed. Hillsfar seems different, Heroes of the Lance & Dragons of Flame are uh... maybe better than other ports. Maybe.

 

[mondblut]

Funny. I thought JRPGs are about being railroaded by the hair of your neck through a ridiculous plot over an inane world, about being forcefed with insufferable 12 years old emo fag characters (who might or might not be wisened 80 years old martial arts grandmasters or 8000 years old dragon princesses, you tell the difference, they still look and behave like tweeners), about nonsensical game mechanics with stats and attributes going into four digits... turns out, it's all about busted economy! Silly me.

Right, yeah, that too. I was thinking of PoR's contemporaries like the first Final Fantasy, which is just a semi-nonlinear overworld with maze-like dungeons where you'll have to do the same handful of fights per area every few steps, which are typically pretty trivial to start with and can be even more trivilaised with use of multi-target spells, like in PoR. Also as in PoR, you end up overloaded with money very early on, which makes things even more of a breeze.

Also features the same joy of camping repeatedly to replenish healing spells.

Earliest japanese RPGs before they fully developed their inane trappings were lifted straight outta Wizardry and Ultima. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Also, if you end up overloaded with money in PoR, it's gonna be anything but a breeze Better drop that copper, having 3 movement points is NOT good.

Matter of fact, if you're authorized, and somehow capable, to kill thousands of people and take their belongings, you're gonna get filthy rich in no time, period. Making said belongings majically vanish post-battle is the laziest copout ever, and kudos to PoR for doing away with that crap.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

THE MONSTERS REJOICE AS THE PARTY IS DESTROYED!!!

 

[mondblut]

THE MONSTERS REJOICE AS THE PARTY IS DESTROYED!!!

do your quotes right

 

[King Crispy]

The Golden Years when game developers knew how to properly taunt and troll their players.