Best sequel to a shit game

[A horse of course]

Dead Rising 2 is shit because they kill

Spoiler

your waifu

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Metal Gear -> Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake

I would never call the first shit, it's still a gem, but the second is on another level.

Warcraft I'm not sure I agree. Big leap in gameplay, but the first has stronger aesthetics. Definitely disagree with Jagged Alliance. I played it recently and it's still amazing. Fully Russian speaking Ivan Dolvich wants to have a word with you.

The problem is I don't play sequels when the original bores me. The first Uncharted is awful (despite pweetiness) andI hear the sequels are better, but I doubt I'll ever play it.

 

[Wassersäufer]

Disciples: Sacred Lands -> Disciples 2

Not necessarily a shit game, but Disciples 1 was just worse than the competition and worse than Disciples 2 in any way.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Metal Gear -> Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake

I would never call the first shit, it's still a gem, but the second is on another level.

I always felt Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater was better than Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. My biggest issue with the games was how dumb they got in terms of characters, powers, melodrama, etc. Of the Solid Series, I always felt the first was best in keeping it to a minimum.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Ultima 2 -> Ultima 3
Kyrandia -> Kyrandia 2
Assassin's Creed -> Assassin's Creed 2
NWN2 -> Mask of Betrayer

 

[Casual Hero]

Oh, this one is easy.
Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress
The first Slaves to Armok is barely a game at all, and Dwarf Fortress is one of the best games you can find on PC.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Ditto on Street Fighter 2 - Street Fighter 1 was horrible, unplayable mess

2D Ninja Gaidens are garbage, series starts with Ninja Gaiden Black on Xbox.

Mayby not crap but original Bomberman is pretty poor comparing to excellent sequels, especially Saturn Bomberman which is easily 10/10 geam.

I'm guessing you've only ever played the emulated version of these old games.

Emulation isn't perfect, if you want a good experience, try finding an original console and playing on that. Getting an old TV is probably the most difficult part of building an old gaming set up.

The same goes for old computer monitors, if you find them, keep them in your garage.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Emulation isn't perfect, if you want a good experience, try finding an original console and playing on that.

Off-topic, but can you expand upon that? I was born in '81 and although I never owned a console as a kid, I spent a bunch of time playing them at friends' houses. Once emulation became a readily available thing in the late 90s/early 00s I went back and played a ton of games that I had either missed or only dipped the surface, and they didn't seem to play materially different from what I was accustomed to (but again, my exposure at that time was fairly limited). What makes emulation so different from playing on the original hardware?

 

[Ranselknulf]

Emulation isn't perfect, if you want a good experience, try finding an original console and playing on that.

Off-topic, but can you expand upon that? I was born in '81 and although I never owned a console as a kid, I spent a bunch of time playing them at friends' houses. Once emulation became a readily available thing in the late 90s/early 00s I went back and played a ton of games that I had either missed or only dipped the surface, and they didn't seem to play materially different from what I was accustomed to (but again, my exposure at that time was fairly limited). What makes emulation so different from playing on the original hardware?

Sure, I've played countless hours of console as a 7 year old kid when NES first came out. The "feel" of the game is completely different on the original console than the emulation. I mean your "intuition" adjusts after playing the emulation, so the games are still fun, but the "time delays" and "lags" are different in parts of the emulated game vs the original game.

It could possibly make games like Ninja Gaiden impossible to play on emulation without cheating, or make the game just feel completely different. (not sure, I've never tried it emulated)

My personal experience anyways, I'm sure there are a thousand technical analyses of the reasons why, but the long and short of it is, the game just feels different because of different timings. No emulation is perfect.

 

[MRY]

Emulation isn't perfect, if you want a good experience, try finding an original console and playing on that.

Off-topic, but can you expand upon that? I was born in '81 and although I never owned a console as a kid, I spent a bunch of time playing them at friends' houses. Once emulation became a readily available thing in the late 90s/early 00s I went back and played a ton of games that I had either missed or only dipped the surface, and they didn't seem to play materially different from what I was accustomed to (but again, my exposure at that time was fairly limited). What makes emulation so different from playing on the original hardware?

Speaking only for myself:

(1) If you emulated NES games using a keyboard set up, the controls are really different -- they're generally worse (making certain moves more difficult), but also I never found myself doing the kind of immersed "ducking and weaving" that I always did as a kid while playing the games on a controller.

(2) The graphics look different on a computer monitor, even a CRT monitor, than on an old TV. (This has some examples: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

(3) There are some claims that there is a little bit of visual lag on LCD monitors that makes it harder to deal with precise timing in older console games, but I have no idea if this is true or not.

(4) The availability of quicksaving -- or even just reliable saving -- makes the experience totally different. A really disciplined player who never quicksaves has an experience approaching the original, but only approaching. A few times I had saves corrupted on cartridges. But even more frequently, I wrote passwords down wrong and lost progress that way.

(5) Almost all of my console-playing as a kid was social; at a minimum, my brother was there, often other neighborhood kids or friends from school. (That was true whether we were at our place or someone else's.) I've never played an emulated game socially that I can recall.

 

[Ranselknulf]

(3) There are some claims that there is a little bit of visual lag on LCD monitors that makes it harder to deal with precise timing in older console games, but I have no idea if this is true or not.

It's definitely true.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

Quite an informative article on something I knew nothing about; thanks for the link.

 

[Ranselknulf]

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

Quite an informative article on something I knew nothing about; thanks for the link.

I have a feeling infinitron will end up splitting this into one of the emulation threads, but nice article. I knew some of the CRT stuff, but he seems to be taking a good approach to recreating the classic experience.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

Quite an informative article on something I knew nothing about; thanks for the link.

I have a feeling infinitron will end up splitting this into one of the emulation threads, but nice article. I knew some of the CRT stuff, but he seems to be taking a good approach to recreating the classic experience.

Infinitron splitting threads? Next you'll be saying bears shit in the woods (which btw is totally off-topic and should be split into its own thread).



Back on topic:

TIE Fighter? I hesitate to call X-Wing shit, but it certainly is nowhere near the level of brilliance of TIE Fighter


Day of the Tentacle- This one came to me the other day. Maniac Mansion is only remembered for it's historical value. Overall it is a pretty garbage game, fight me.


Memoria- Chains of Satinav is perhaps not shit, but it is excessively mediocre and its story is singularly ill-fitted to the point and click genre.

 

[deuxhero]

Mega Man -> Mega Man II.

On that subject: Battle Network 2 is a massive improvement on the first. The third game continued to improve the mechanics, but the plot has a lot of low-effort filler (the rankings just before the finale being the most blatant, forcing you to follow vague clues on which previous areas to revisit with the only new content being a few mini-bosses and a boss rematch. Only plot effect this has on the end-game is BeastMan.EXE not being in the final boss rush). Sadly 4 is just pure decline, 5 improves a decent amount but has even more filler. 6 was pretty good though

 

[samuraigaiden]

It could possibly make games like Ninja Gaiden impossible to play on emulation without cheating, or make the game just feel completely different. (not sure, I've never tried it emulated)

I can vouch for this. Ninja Gaiden looks and plays very different on real NES with an old TV. For starters, the character sprite color isn't supposed to be pink, on the original hardware those colors would blend into a blue/purple blur.

Also, the amount of lag on original hardware was so low, it made those ultra hard games a bit less impossible. There are many tricks to reduce the lag on PC as much as possible and, honestly, I'd say they are mandatory for NES games in particular. No wireless controller, no vsync, zero pre-rendered frames, etc.

Almost all of my console-playing as a kid was social

And yes, this is so true. I remember having a blast playing Chip and Dale and Battletoads with my brother as a kid. Those games are not fun alone, they are fun with friends. Arguably, even watching paint dry is fun with friends, but still..

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 is a pretty huge improvement over the first game, though I wouldn't necessarily call the first a "shit" game the first was very much a prototype

 

[Bony Hands]

Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall. The first game was just anemic and linear. Dragonfall gave you more to do with a longer campaign with a better story and actual party members to use.

 

[Curratum]

Witcher 3

 

[deadmeme]

Daggerfall

 

[Black_Willow]

Fallout 3

Repaired

 

[luj1]

Heretic 2

 

[freygeist87]

Definitely POSTAL 2. Best psycho murderer simulator ever. The first one just exist like a shitborn

 

[Belegarsson]

Need for Speed has a few of these. It's run from 1997 (I never played the very first NFS game) to 2005 were legendary, with 1997's NFS2 and 2006's Carbon being somewhat divisive entries but I'd say both of them hold up pretty well. Since ProStreet, the series has seen a lot of ups and downs.

- Undercover (2008) to Shift (2009): UC was a notoriously buggy game with shit graphics on PC, stupid physics and AI, low difficulty and lots of other issues. Shift was a drastic "shift" (hehe) to stadium-based simcade competitive racing with really good, weighty handling and IMO still has the best sense of speed in the entire franchise. I'm honestly surprised with Shift's reception within the fanbase, even the casual fans seem to like it.

- World (2010) to nu-Hot Pursuit (2011): World is a PC exclusive f2p MMO game that's actually considered to be a main entry of the series, as weird as it sounds. It's a low effort MTX infused f2p game from EA, what do you expect? (even though some weirdos tried to bring it back anyway). The Hot Pursuit reboot from Criterion has the spirit of the old games and modern tight gameplay. Personally I'm not really thrilled with it, but it's easy to see why it's the most popular modern NFS entry.

- The Run (2011) to nu-Most Wanted (2012) to Rivals (2013): okay this is pretty hilarious, The Run was EA Black Box's final game with a 3 hour campaign, stupid AI, freaking QTE chase sequences, half baked world tour and limited car selection. Then Most Wanted reboot made by Criterion came with a pretty good open world and a lot of mechanics from the OG MW. First impressions were good, the game was praised as a huge improvement over The Run, then people realized it's actually a Burnout game in disguise and nowadays it's probably even more divisive than The Run. Then come Rivals, the first game from Ghost Games which felt like a spiritual successor of Hot Pursuit with fleshed out racer/cop side campaigns. Rivals' biggest fault is its bugginess, but overall it was better received by fans than MW and The Run.

I think The Run deserves a remaster with restored cut content. Bad NFS games have bad core, this one doesn't, it just lacks content. Most Wanted isn't shit, it should have never beared the NFS title.

- Payback (2017) to Heat (2019): I have always found 2015 reboot to be so bad its good, but Payback is just sad. Payback tried to copy modern Fast & Furious movies with a heist-centric narrative revolves around a band of daredevil racers, but the awful story, restrictive car selection based on type of game mode, busted cop mechanic (you have to run through bait crates to activate cop chases because people can't handle the stress while free roaming), busted multiplayer, busted progression system based on RNG slot machine pretty much digged a grave for this game. Then 2 years later, Ghost Games brought out Heat, an Underground homage with some ProStreet inspiration. The handling is best ever since Rivals, night atmosphere is pretty amazing, cops are relentless, progression is straightforward, and the customization is *muah* (YOU CAN EVEN ADJUST YOUR CAR EXHAUST'S LOUDNESS). Sadly, this is also Ghost Games' final NFS, but the franchise is now back to the hand of Criterion.

Similarly on the simcade side. The F1 series saw a notable uprise in quality between F1 2015 and the next installments. 2015 was pretty rough due to the infant EGO 4.0 engine which caused many performance issues, no traditional create-a-driver career mode, no safety car, odd damage model, aggresive AI that 5 years later respawn in GRID 2019. Luckily since 2016, each game in the series improved more and more, not just handling and physics, but also a career mode with full fledged CARPG progression, team management, interviews, activity scheduling, mid race interaction. Possibly the best sport franchise out there, and my heart dropped when I saw the headline that Take Two is buying Codemasters. Everything must come to an end

 

[Caim]

Knights of the Old Republic I - Knights of the Old Republic II

Mega Man 3 - Mega Man 4

Dark Souls 2 - Dark Souls 3

The Sims 1 - The Sims 2

Team Fortress Classic - Team Fortress 2

Assassin's Creed 1 - Assassin's Creed 2

Age of Empires I - Age of Empires II