Stronghold/Home Base building in RPGs: Good idea or fuck off already?

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Hello,

Do you guys like this mechanic? It's a pretty common bioware trope and they're getting pretty good at it, what do you guys think of it?

I like its implementation in Inquisition currently, especially with putting people on trial and getting to decide their fates, but too often base building sidequests either do literally nothing for the players and are just cosmetic(bad) or do nothing and cost a lot of time farming minerals or whatever to be good (really bad). What do you think?

 

[Butter]

It was a waste of dev resources in BG2 and PoE. When your adventure takes you progressively farther afield and you're dealing with big threats, there's simply no good reason to keep going back to the stronghold for mundane busywork.

It's a good thing in Titan Outpost, because the game was actually designed around the mechanic.

 

[Tavernking]

Good for sandbox RPGs like Mount and Blade.

 

[Siveon]

If the game involves just going around being a fuckass and doing hero shit then yeah some kind of home to return to is always pretty cool. If the central point of the game is like, a journey to somewhere or generally you have some place to be, it feels really unnecessary.

It just depends on the pacing, but I don't think the mechanic itself is bad.

 

[luj1]

I have never seen it done well. Feature bloat is the enemy. The more of that shit, the weaker your core RPG gameplay is

 

[Bastardchops]

I'm not into it. It often seems tacked on.

 

[HoboForEternity]

fuck off

 

[Riddler]

Works well in open world style games or mission based games.

 

[RNGsus]

F4 bases or UFO bases?

 

[JarlFrank]

If you make it an actual relevant mechanic and add proper gameplay to it, it's good.

But that hasn't been done in RPGs yet (except Titan Outpost where base management is a core of the game).

It's always just a very shallow tacked-on feature that barely offers any gameplay beyond "invest 1000 gold now to get 100 gold in taxes every month".
If I wanna build up a stronghold, I'm gonna play... fucking Stronghold because that game actually has proper castle management and construction.
If your stronghold feature doesn't offer me even a quarter of the gameplay an RTS or city builder does, why even include it?

It's basically just a stripped-down base building game shoved into an RPG. Either give me the real deal or leave it out of the game.

 

[Joggerino]

I always like to have home/stronghold building in my RPGs, even if its implemented horribly.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Can someone remind me what was the point of base building in Baldur's Gate 2, it has been a long time since i played it and i totally forgot what was the reward for that shit.

 

[RNGsus]

So does Codex think UFO/XCOM base building is tacked on or a chore?

If the game involves just going around being a fuckass and doing hero shit then yeah some kind of home to return to is always pretty cool. If the central point of the game is like, a journey to somewhere or generally you have some place to be, it feels really unnecessary.

It just depends on the pacing, but I don't think the mechanic itself is bad.

I think the opposite. Fuckass murder hobos don't need a base, but if we are on a journey in a hostile world, a base (preferably mobile) would be welcome.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

XCOM is a strategy game.

 

[RNGsus]

Thanks, glad to know RPGs can't possibly blend genres. I mean, can you imagine what would happen if somebody tried to make an RPG with XCOM bases? What a huge fucking leap of the imagination that would take!

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Thanks, glad to know RPGs can't possibly blend genres. I mean, can you imagine what would happen if somebody tried to make an RPG with XCOM bases? What a huge fucking leap of the imagination that would take!

XCOM is not considered a Strategy RPG (unlike Jagged Alliance 2) on Codex, for whatever reason.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=11193

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=11398

 

[luj1]

XCOM is a strategy game.

So are RPGs. Small-scale squad-based tactics.

 

[fantadomat]

Hello,

Do you guys like this mechanic? It's a pretty common bioware trope and they're getting pretty good at it, what do you guys think of it?

I like its implementation in Inquisition currently, especially with putting people on trial and getting to decide their fates, but too often base building sidequests either do literally nothing for the players and are just cosmetic(bad) or do nothing and cost a lot of time farming minerals or whatever to be good (really bad). What do you think?

Ignore the irrelevant pensioners here,base building is good thing if done right and part of the setting. Maybe the best part of DA inquisition was the ruler feel,the combat was sponge fest,the exploration was more combat so it was shit and the writing was pretty much missing. Tho get 10 herbs quests are shit.

 

[fantadomat]

Can someone remind me what was the point of base building in Baldur's Gate 2, it has been a long time since i played it and i totally forgot what was the reward for that shit.

Because there was no base building lol,just a bunch of side quests that were class locked. I did enjoy doing them all with the mod that lets you do them as any class.

If you make it an actual relevant mechanic and add proper gameplay to it, it's good.

But that hasn't been done in RPGs yet (except Titan Outpost where base management is a core of the game).

It's always just a very shallow tacked-on feature that barely offers any gameplay beyond "invest 1000 gold now to get 100 gold in taxes every month".
If I wanna build up a stronghold, I'm gonna play... fucking Stronghold because that game actually has proper castle management and construction.
If your stronghold feature doesn't offer me even a quarter of the gameplay an RTS or city builder does, why even include it?

It's basically just a stripped-down base building game shoved into an RPG. Either give me the real deal or leave it out of the game.

Hmmm not really,titan quest is pretty generic base builder,the difference is the setting. It makes you feel like an isolated survivalist,but in reality there is plenty of resources and it is pretty easy. The base building is just selecting which square should be dug out and what to be put in there.

DA Inquisition has a good base building mechanic,the problem is the shit around it and the lack of reactivity. That base building mechanic would have been pretty good if the game was about war and not about muh generic evul retard #31572. If you want good base building,spellforce 2&3. The best base builder is clearly rimworld .

Stronghold is pretty meh because of how shit the enemy AI is,they can't siege you,in crusades the arabs can't even get past the moat,you just spam archers on towers and you had won lol.

That said,i do agree,it is rare to see base building done right. It is shame that it is just tacked on most of the times.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I take the same stance on strongholds as I do crafting in CRPGs. While they can be done well, they're not likely to be. They're at odds with the activities of being an adventurer.

In my youth, I really liked the Stronghold aspect of Baldur's Gate 2, but I've since grown wiser. It's a good thing that it's so minimal. It's typically a distraction from the broader game. It works in PF:KM because the kingdom management is about 1/3 of the game system. It can be useful as a hub so long as you can access it easily, like Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal and Divinity: Original Sin. Watcher's Keep from PoE1 is a horrible example of what to do. NWN2 was a bit better, but I remember feeling disappointed with the return on the heaps of gold I put into it.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

I like it when it's a) it's at the right stage and thematic level (e.g. Mount & Blade and other such sandbox RPG) b) it's meant to emulate old school D&D Domain Level where you are a lord and do stuff. I don't actually have a good example of the second one. I feel Pathfinder wanted to go there, but personally it failed miserably (the premise for a main quest to get some lands was really good and I was super motivated, until I actually got said lands and it devolved into a grind which I never finished).

 

[V_K]

I liked the approach in West of Loathing where after completing certain quests, the NPCs involved in them would move to the town and open new shops there. Anything more involved than that is just unnecessary busywork.

 

[Tigranes]

Can we cite examples where it was done well, justified the resources spent on it, and made a major contribution to that game's quality?

Hard to think of many.

 

[JarlFrank]

I like it when it's a) it's at the right stage and thematic level (e.g. Mount & Blade and other such sandbox RPG) b) it's meant to emulate old school D&D Domain Level where you are a lord and do stuff. I don't actually have a good example of the second one. I feel Pathfinder wanted to go there, but personally it failed miserably (the premise for a main quest to get some lands was really good and I was super motivated, until I actually got said lands and it devolved into a grind which I never finished).

I guess Stronghold is kinda b)