Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

Like 2 bucks? 3 max and it is already stretching it. Considering how Call of the Wild adds a looooooooot more classes and archetypes, I don't see how you can justify anything more.

 

[NJClaw]

I don't understand this socialism. "It is overpriced", "it is an insult" and so on. Is Italy a communist country now? Gianni Rodari was right?

If it is a market, and something is too expensive - you do not buy it. If something is OK for someone they buy it. But these collective shaming campaigns remind me of both my childhood in "pioneer camps" and of the fear of SJW boycotts that make modern Western games unplayable.

Oh come on, don't be dumb. Even if it's the market and you can buy or don't buy something, you, as a client, are still allowed to say that something costs too much for what it's actually worth. "If it costs X, then it's worth X, and no criticism is allowed" is a very shallow statement.

What price would you consider fair for it?

Honestly, I think the DLC should have been free from the start, especially considering the sad and embarrassing release of the game. I mean, The Wildcards released while the game still was in a barely acceptable state. In December the game still had an enormous amount of bugs, some of which were game-breaking. I don't understand how people can say that it's not an insult to release a paid DLC while the base game is still unplayable for some people.

 

[AliceAlcina]

problem with mods vs official dlcs is that mods might be working for something different than money, while devs are clearly paying the bills with their games.
Was it overpriced? Yeah. Should it be like that mod and free? Only dev can set up the price.

 

[Xamenos]

Like 2 bucks? 3 max and it is already stretching it. Considering how Call of the Wild adds a looooooooot more classes and archetypes, I don't see how you can justify anything more.

You are in luck then, that is precisely the price it was discounted for. And we shouldn't really pretend the draw of the DLC was the extra class instead of the waifu companion, something no mod has added as far as I'm aware.

Honestly, I think the DLC should have been free from the start, especially considering the sad and embarrassing release of the game. I mean, The Wildcards released while the game still was in a barely acceptable state. In December the game still had an enormous amount of bugs, some of which were game-breaking. I don't understand how people can say that it's not an insult to release a paid DLC while the base game is still unplayable for some people.

Whether it should have been released when it did and what it should cost then is a different discussion than the fairness of its current price. It was ballsy to release it when they did, and I believe it would have been part of the base game if their publisher hadn't pushed the release date forward. And it would be a nice gesture if they'd given Wildcards for free to those unfortunate souls who purchased the game on release, no arguments here. But the game has been perfectly playable for some time now. The current price of the DLC should be evaluated based on current conditions, not on what happened on release.

 

[razvedchiki]

no what santino27? didnt kingmaker backers get the dlcs for free?

 

[santino27]

no what santino27? didnt kingmaker backers get the dlcs for free?

Only if you pledged above a certain amount:

Spoiler

Dear Pathfinders!

As many of you have noticed, the Imperial Edition in our new pre-orders on Steam and GoG contains a season pass. We have received many questions and comments about this from you, so let us address the most urgent ones, starting with the nature of the DLC contained in the season pass.

After the end of our crowdfunding campaign, many of you have sent us requests for additional races, classes and other content and features to be added as DLC after release. So we are going to work on some additional content post-release to make the game even bigger and better and to add even more to the experience! This is going to be funded, you guessed it, with the help of the season pass. No content is cut from the base game for this! Pathfinder: Kingmaker will release with all the content, all the races, classes, story chapters, absolutely everything we promised during our Kickstarter campaign. You get the full game, as promised.

Over the coming months after release, we are going to release several DLC packs. The first three of these DLC packs will be in the first season pass. You will also be able to buy each DLC on its own when it releases. We will release more information about the contents and estimated release dates of each DLC at a later date. Don't worry, all will be revealed before the release of Pathfinder: Kingmaker!

As for the pricing, our Imperial Edition has everything contained in the Royal Edition, as well as the season pass. Because of that, it costs $15 more than the Royal Edition. The season pass is going to contain about $40 worth of DLC. Those of you not interested in the Imperial Edition will be able to purchase a standalone season pass when we get a little closer to release. As mentioned before, each DLC will also be available for purchase on its own.

One more thing: we are giving the first season pass to every backer, who pledged $95 or more for our beta tiers on Kickstarter or $110 on our crowdfunding-preorders for free as a thank you for helping us beta-test our early builds! So if you're one of our beta supporters, there's no need for you to buy the season pass - you'll be getting it from us, free of charge!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-kingmaker/posts/2246024

 

[LannTheStupid]

don't be dumb. Even if it's the market and you can buy or don't buy something, you, as a client, are still allowed to say that something costs too much for what it's actually worth.

I am dumb, though. And that is why I am asking you what metrics do you use to estimate the worth vs. the costs regarding DLC's. And, while we are at it, regarding the games in general, at least of CRPG genre. I genuinely do not understand the way you calculate "worth".

 

[Lacrymas]

The theory that tries to analyse and estimate worth in a hypothetically free market is called catallactics. It's not easy to define in a forum post. I'd say Wildcards is overpriced at 6 euros because we got more for less with the base game when we compare race/class ratios without even taking into account actual content.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I would love modules/new Adventure DLC tbh. Technically all expansion of Neverwinter Night 1 and 2 are DLC in modern terms and SoU, HotU, MotB are all very great and even much better than the base game. After all system-wise for this game it's all Pathfinder 1E and the only content that we need is new content to play with the system with so new Adventure is nice.

Episodic is kinda iffy. I will probably wait for all episodes to be available anyway before buying and trying. But in some way, it probably lifts the financial burden to the dev from making major content that might or might not sell where they can adjust the scale of their DLC on the fly (say, making future episode simpler if the reception of that particular adventure DLC is not good enough). I think Sawyer or someone from Obsidian makes a point that White March sized DLC (which are equivalent of expansion packs for older games) are huge development burden and not worth it, hence they are not even planning to even do something like that for PoE 2 since beginning. On the other hand, White March as a whole is arguably modern CRPG DLC done right and big value for your money. The only comparable value I would say is The Witcher 3 expansion which also about great new content for the base game.

All in all based on the survey I indicated that I would prefer if they do DLC at all to have 1. New Adventure/module and 2. Significant new content for the base game

 

[Lacrymas]

White March had a different problem, though - nobody bought it. As opposed to the Twitcher DLCs.

 

[Xamenos]

White March had a different problem, though - nobody bought it. As opposed to the Twitcher DLCs.

That's only because PoE sucked and killed any enthusiasm people might've had for DLC and sequels. That's the answer Sawyer has been looking in the bottom of a bottle since PoE2 bombed.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

White March had a different problem, though - nobody bought it. As opposed to the Twitcher DLCs.

Yeah, that's why it is a huge financial risk, making something like White March. It is something that Obsidian has acknowledged and why they are planning not to do that kind of new content for PoE 2 even as early as the Fig campaign iirc. And in some way, it is a problem with the base game because the mediocre base game doesn't translate wanting more content for it even though for those who buy it, White March is pretty much better than anything in the base game. The Witcher 3 base game on the other hand is generally beloved and new content for it is welcomed warmly.

In some way I think the development burden of making DLC/expansion is why Owlcat is planning to make episodic DLC since the beginning. When the 1st episode is sold they would have already made a promise on how much total episode would be there. But the development of the episodes will be segregated. In the best case, episode 2 is in the middle of heavy development when episode 1 is released where worst case, they start episode 2 development when episode 1 is released. Seeing reception of the 1st episode, they can scale down future episode as needed based on 1st episode reception.

 

[Tyrr]

White March had a different problem, though - nobody bought it. As opposed to the Twitcher DLCs.

Because the main game sucked.
I was a backer but still stopped playing halfway out of boredom.

 

[Lacrymas]

We've discussed at length why we think White March and PoE2 did poorly, so I'm not going to open that can of worms again. My point was more that Josh is wrong about this. A case study of 1 subject isn't very convincing. I'm not particularly hyped about an episodic format, but if it makes sense economically then do it. I've found episodic games to be quite disjointed however.

 

[Dodo1610]

I never played Varnhold for more than an hour the concept of playing with a new character just isn't appealing in my opinion. All DLC should be built directly into the main game/story IMHO.

 

[PapaPetro]

I never played Varnhold for more than an hour the concept of playing with a new character just isn't appealing in my opinion. All DLC should be built directly into the main game/story IMHO.

Would like to see companion DLC where you run a side story and at the end the companion is integrated into your party/campaign.

 

[LannTheStupid]

So, let's use "catallactics".

Base Pathfinder: Kingmaker price is $20 USD, right? Wildcards are $6. The DLC adds a new class with all 3 subtypes and a full fledged companion who represents this new class, who have their own story, supporting cast and all interactions including romance, party banter and individual reactions in some dialogues.

There are 11 companions in the base game. So the DLC should be priced at $20 / 11 ~ $1.8; it is $6 which is $6 / $1.8 ~ 3.3 times more.

On one hand I slightly better understand local socialists and Gosplan admirers; on the other hand I think that no one would work for $2 DLC if it is not a horse armor. So yes, DLC's seem to be overpriced; which means developers should put more content into the DLC's, and if this content is as good as in Kingmaker or in the Witcher I will buy it anyway.

 

[Bara]

I never played Varnhold for more than an hour the concept of playing with a new character just isn't appealing in my opinion. All DLC should be built directly into the main game/story IMHO.

I'd agree with this only if said dlc is a continuation of the plot from the end of the game not more front-loaded content to get people who never finish games to buy it.

I'd rather have dlc with new characters that's set apart from the main adventure than more of that.

 

[Sykar]

Like 2 bucks? 3 max and it is already stretching it. Considering how Call of the Wild adds a looooooooot more classes and archetypes, I don't see how you can justify anything more.

CotW does not add new companions or quests at all though. Writing a new complete character and integrating it seamlessly into the base game, including the prolgue, takes a lot more effort than churning out some new classes and archetypes which have a lot of overlap with existing ones already.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wouldn't say the waifu twins are seamlessly implemented. She butts in more than the others and even if I didn't know she's an extra DLC character I would've noticed there's something off about her. She's also kind of there? Nobody acknowledges her existence. In the prologue I mean, no idea about after that.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I wonder where in the prologue are Regongar, Octavia, and Tristian. Apparently, they are not "seamlessly" implemented, either.

 

[Sykar]

I wouldn't say the waifu twins are seamlessly implemented. She butts in more than the others and even if I didn't know she's an extra DLC character I would've noticed there's something off about her. She's also kind of there? Nobody acknowledges her existence. In the prologue I mean, no idea about after that.

Are you stupid? No one knows her yet, she interjects in the opening dialogue, has a dialogue with you where Linzi interjects and when she has switched later and does not want to take sides Linzi literally called her out on it. Are you sure you have even played the DLC?

 

[Efe]

stop taking lacrymas seriously.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wouldn't say the waifu twins are seamlessly implemented. She butts in more than the others and even if I didn't know she's an extra DLC character I would've noticed there's something off about her. She's also kind of there? Nobody acknowledges her existence. In the prologue I mean, no idea about after that.

Are you stupid? No one knows her yet, she interjects in the opening dialogue, has a dialogue with you where Linzi interjects and when she has switched later and does not want to take sides Linzi literally called her out on it. Are you sure you have even played the DLC?

The problem is that she interjects like nobody else in the prologue. With some random comments nobody acknowledges.

 

[user]

Like 2 bucks? 3 max and it is already stretching it. Considering how Call of the Wild adds a looooooooot more classes and archetypes, I don't see how you can justify anything more.

CotW does not add new companions or quests at all though

More interesting archetypes for build combinations > extra lorefaggetry stuff!