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KickStarter [Poll] Best XP model

Which of these XP models you find more appealing?


  • Total voters
    138

Luckmann

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You forgot the best form of XP: Goal-oriented XP.

And you forgot to read the OP
No, I read it, it wasn't substantial.

Except you claim I didn't put a XP from achieving a goals option in the poll, when it's literally the 1st option in it and the OP explains that
The irony here is that you claim I didn't read the OP, when it's patently obvious that it is you that didn't actually read my post. Quest-based experience is garbage.
 
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DJOGamer PT

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You forgot the best form of XP: Goal-oriented XP.

And you forgot to read the OP
No, I read it, it wasn't substantial.

Except you claim I didn't put a XP from achieving a goals option in the poll, when it's literally the 1st option in it and the OP explains that
The irony here is that you claim I didn't read the OP, when it's patently obvious that it is you that didn't actually read my post. Quest-based experience is garbage.

The irony here is that you claim that I didn't read your post and you read the OP, when it obvious that it is you that didn't read my post.
Since, you know, my post explicitly states that 1st option is for receiving XP from completing objectives (be they quest related or not).
 

HarveyBirdman

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Jan 5, 2019
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Depends. Dark Souls has a pretty perfect XP/currency system. but it wouldn't really work outside of the Dark Souls format.
So making sure the system fits the game is more important than forcing a certain method.

But maybe even more fundamental is the quantity of experience available and frequency of its acquisition. Leveling should be smooth. You should never need to grind, and you should never be overpowered (unless it's an open world game where you have a postgame). Good challenge comes from gameplay and properly building your character, not from power gaps.
 

DraQ

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DraQ you are mistaken. If all roads lead to the same goal with the same XP, then leaving a trail of corpses is the default choice because you get the same outcome, but with all the plundered loot.
:hmmm:
And plopping down an extra helping of kill XP on top of that loot helps how exactly?

Kill loot is a problem that's universal to all games that have killing, loot and not killing as allegedly a viable option.
There are many possible ways to attack the kill loot problem:
balancing it with risk (if ironman/limited saving) or resource attrition (health, wear and tear), attaching all sorts of strings (unlike %charname most possible victims haven't hatched from adventurer eggs, ready to murderhobo from their first breath), limiting ability to recover and monetize all the loot (by limiting inventory and having loot not stay put indefinitely), etc.

Dickwolves are probably not carrying anything of note, bandits willing to take the risk of getting killed by PC/party for the plunder are probably not carrying anything of nearly similar value to what the PC/party already does. Generic army types are probably carrying decent quality gear, but they, or rather their employers still need to balance effectiveness with economy, OTOH they probably have a numerical advantage over PC(s) and in a good system that should really spell an "oh shit!" moment for arbitrarily high level party, undead in tombs should mostly sport rusty gear (if any) and rely on their undead nature to be proper threat, etc.

OTOH wounds should be an actual problem demanding rare resource expenditure (seriously, "rest until healed" must be the popamoliest design idea this side of health regen), facing animals, monsters and undead should carry additional risk of diseases (and in the latter cases curses) manifesting themselves only a good while later, maintaining gear should be expensive and not exactly straightforward - doubly so if it's a legendary artifact rather than just some rusty dagger you've picked off local bandit's corpse - that should be easy to replace, not just maintain, wronged people should really find the way to hit PCs where it hurts and so on.

Those are problems completely orthogonal to XP system and should stay that way.
Quest XP keeps them this way.
Use-based skills kind of bumps into the issue but it comes with the territory of extreme simulationism as its own reward ( :obviously: ) and needs to be dealt by the way of dealing with general use-based problems.
Meanwhile action (kill) XP just dives headlong into the problem and makes it worse in a completely unnecessary and self-inflicted manner.
That's because action XP is fucking retarded.
 

Bad Sector

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The problem with what you describe is that i have way too much fun raising my characters from wimpy runts to overpowered demigods by killing everything on sight and gulping down their kill XP so that they can steamroll everything in their way to provide the most fantastically powerful power fantasy ever.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
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You forgot the best form of XP: Goal-oriented XP.

And you forgot to read the OP
No, I read it, it wasn't substantial.

Except you claim I didn't put a XP from achieving a goals option in the poll, when it's literally the 1st option in it and the OP explains that
The irony here is that you claim I didn't read the OP, when it's patently obvious that it is you that didn't actually read my post. Quest-based experience is garbage.

The irony here is that you claim that I didn't read your post and you read the OP, when it obvious that it is you that didn't read my post.
Since, you know, my post explicitly states that 1st option is for receiving XP from completing objectives (be they quest related or not).
Yes, exactly.

And I said nothing about objectives. Objectives are just a single step in a "quest" or "mission".

You fucking imbecile.
 
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laclongquan

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Searching for my kidnapped sister
The problem with what you describe is that i have way too much fun raising my characters from wimpy runts to overpowered demigods by killing everything on sight and gulping down their kill XP so that they can steamroll everything in their way to provide the most fantastically powerful power fantasy ever.

Then you mean you, yes YOU, are the perfect audience for a specific type of game that design around ONLY gain XP through killing everything easily.

For fuck's sake. Even MMORPG doesnt design their XP system that way.

Smartphone app/games are designed that way though. You only move a few fingers and voila! enemies killed, xp gained (and loots). They cant gain xp in other way because other ways using more brains to process requests and actions.
 

Bad Sector

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Joined
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Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Then you mean you, yes YOU, are the perfect audience for a specific type of game that design around ONLY gain XP through killing everything easily.

For fuck's sake. Even MMORPG doesnt design their XP system that way.

Smartphone app/games are designed that way though. You only move a few fingers and voila! enemies killed, xp gained (and loots). They cant gain xp in other way because other ways using more brains to process requests and actions.

You misunderstand, i voted for "XP from both quests and actions" - the part you quoted isn't the only thing i want to do, i'm perfectly fine with gaining XP from quests too. Or other means, if the game allow it. I'm really not a fan of the "sneak past the dude to gain sneak XP, talk with him to get talk XP and then kill him to get kill XP" setup but i'll do it if i want to build strong characters - however i do not blame the system being based on gaining XP for disliking this, i blame that the game allows my characters to do all of the above at the same time.

Removing the ability to gain XP from actions like killing, talking, etc can fix the issue of doing the above, but for me that removes too much and creates a dull and sterilized game.
 

Bad Sector

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Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Then you should blame game developers for not beta testing their games thoroughly.
Or at least not release their 1st patch soon enough and comprehensive enough.
It's humans, not things, that fail.

I think we've lost each other somewhere, i do not understand what you are referring to... beta test their games for what?
 

DJOGamer PT

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Messages
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Lusitânia
You forgot the best form of XP: Goal-oriented XP.

And you forgot to read the OP
No, I read it, it wasn't substantial.

Except you claim I didn't put a XP from achieving a goals option in the poll, when it's literally the 1st option in it and the OP explains that
The irony here is that you claim I didn't read the OP, when it's patently obvious that it is you that didn't actually read my post. Quest-based experience is garbage.

The irony here is that you claim that I didn't read your post and you read the OP, when it obvious that it is you that didn't read my post.
Since, you know, my post explicitly states that 1st option is for receiving XP from completing objectives (be they quest related or not).
Yes, exactly.

And I said nothing about objectives. Objectives are just a single step in a "quest" or "mission".

You fucking imbecile.

Objectives and goals are synonymous you dumb bastard :lol:
Learn the english lexicon before calling others imbeciles you retard :lol:

Oh by the way here's what I said in the OP, so you read it this time:

> XP from quests - you get XP only by completing quest objectives or other overaching objectives (like completing a chapter, goal, etc...)
 

Luckmann

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Joined
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Messages
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> XP from quests - you get XP only by completing quest objectives or other overaching objectives (like completing a chapter, goal, etc...)
You are truly a dumbfuck. Not only are goals and objectives not synonymous, but more importantly, what you described in the OP does not apply to what I said. The correct response to this would've been something along the lines of "Oh, I am not familiar with this concept and have not played Deus Ex because I am a plebian idiot, would you please tell me more?" not "Hurrrr u didnr read OP".

Here is what I said in my post, so you can read it this time. Let me walk you through this, holding your dumbfuck hand like the mental midget you are so your underdeveloped toddler brain doesn't get confused:
You forgot the best form of XP: Goal-oriented XP.
Here, I am defining the term for an experience system which is, one would assume by merit of it previously having been pointed out as missing in the OP, not yet mentioned. Notice how I make it clear that this type was forgotten. Forgotten implies that it was missed or not known about. This is an important tip-off that the someone mentioning such a thing have noted what types have been mentioned and then bring something up as "missing" or "absent", suggesting that they have in fact read the OP.

Let that soak in for a moment. That sentence. Let it simmer. Try to understand it. If you are still having difficulties, consult your local elementary school or special needs teacher.
It doesn't matter if it's a quest or not, or how something is resolved; you get awarded experience for achieving it. Deus Ex is a perfect example of this.
Two things are happening here. Two. Ok? They are related but separate. I know it can be intimidating for someone like you, and maybe you're confused by the separate parts being bolded and enlarged the same way, but just remember that a dot, called a "punctuation" separates two sentences. A sentence is just a way to split up related words that mean things in ways that make sense. Don't be intimidated or confused. Try to follow along.

Get this. First, first I give a general example of how something like the thing I mentioned works. That's the first part, OK? Notice how I say that it doesn't have to be a quest or anything. It doesn't have to be anything. It can be nothing. This will later be expanded upon. This is just a general description of the system originally described (remember that? "Goal-oriented XP" that was "missing" or "forgotten"). This is sometimes called a clarification. You can hear by the word "clarification" that it has something to do with "clear". It has a similar meaning. It is to make something clear. To expand on it so that dumbfucks aren't too easily confused and to convey or transfer a sense of meaning to the concept, "the thing" discussed. OK?

Are you following so far? OK, great. In the second part I give a clear example of a game that uses this system. Deus Ex. You see that? You see that part where Deus Ex is mentioned? That's the second part. This is to make it clear to everyone involved that has ever played Deus Ex what I am talking about. In this environment, it can be assumed that everyone has played Deus Ex. It is a fair assumption given the nature of the forum, no? If someone hasn't, such as you, they have to speak up and ask for clarification - for someone to "make it clear"? Does that make sense to you now, does it? I know it can be hard to admit ignorance when everyone around you seem to know more than you, but you need to at least try, or you are going to be even more limited than you are already. Having a diminished mental capacity will always limit you, but even you can still learn things, and there is a whole world of people willing to help you. You know what they say; ignorance is curable but stupid is forever.
You get awarded not for killing, but for achieving a goal, whether there was a quest for it or if the mooks ended up dead or not. This could be exploration-based or when reaching set points, or just for resolving situations, or what-have-you, but always circumstance-based and goal-oriented, awarding clever uses of assets or thoroughness.
This is probably the part that threw you off the most. A lot of things are going on here. I apologize for making it complicated, as I do not normally deal with the handicapped. I'll try to take it step by step and explain each section (or "part") as it comes. First, it is made it clear that killing is not involved. So no killing XP. It is then made clear that you are awarded (Awarded experience! Remember, we are talking about experience! It can be easy to forget for people with very small attention spans that a text can make callbacks aaaaaaaall the way to the beginning!) based on the "goals" regardless of whether there was a quest for it or not. It doesn't matter if there was a quest (sometimes also called "missions", and sometimes "quests" (or "missions") are chunked down into a string of "objectives") or not.

This is then expanded upon. To expand upon something means to add to it. This can be by clarifying or to simply add more information or examples. In this case, it is clarified that any potential "quests" are irrelevant, and that instead, it could (this word means that it doesn't have to be that way!) mean that you get experience by reaching certain locations or exploring various areas, or simply by resolving certain situations - again, remember that a discussion or conversation can have callbacks to the origin of the conversation. In this case, we're making a callback to the established fact that this is regardless of whether there are quests or missions of any type involved. There is no "quest" to "resolve the situation" or "to explore the area", you are simply awarded for achieving the goals of doing so.

How this is determined is then clarified as being based on circumstance. A circumstance is all those small things around you that autistic people such as yourself have difficulties picking up on because it doesn't always fit into one of those predefined neat boxes that you are fond of. In this case, one can infer (that is to assume based on available evidence in the surroundings or in association or relation to a context such as a text) that this means that the awarded experience and how it is rewarded will be different depending on the nature of the setting or level, which is why you get experience when arriving at a location or finding a hidden path, but not when simply taking a step forward in an arbitrary direction.
It is genuinely sad that virtually no games get it right, and instead favor just handing out XP based on killing, questing, or just farming actions.
And here, in the conclusion, it is made abundantly clear to every able-brained commoner that what has been described as favored by the author (me) is not covered by "killing", "questing", or "actions", and thus distinct from what has been originally described, once again implying that the OP was read, the OP was concluded to be unsatisfactory, and that what was then described is different from what was described in the OP.

Is that clear enough for you, retard?
 
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Luckmann

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I like the Deus Ex method the most in theory. Rewards for thinking outside the box, exploring, doing things in ways that wasn't the main goal but something that the player might have thought of trying anyway. The only problem with the execution of this system in DE was that often it'd come down to there being Path A and Path B and you'd go through A, backtrack and then go down B as well to gobble up all of the XP. I'm not sure what I'd do differently, however, since you wouldn't want to punish the player for wanting to fully explore everything either, as that'd be entirely counter to the design of the game.
Actually, the solution doesn't have to be that complicated. Let's say that there are three secret paths into an enemy base or whatever. When one has been discovered, you shouldn't be given experience for the others. Now, this would be largely circumstantial and likely seem arbitrary in practice, but if you play in earnest and don't try to game the system, it shouldn't cause any issues, as you could still award experience for many other goals, such as finding secrets.

In general, you should probably avoid giving out experience just for "paths". Both because it creates the situation of getting you to "take both paths" (which I as a completionist do anyway), but also because it actually fucks someone that plays the game more as a shooter. Now, I'd never advocate playing Deus Ex as a shooter, but in a real (C)RPG it should definitely be an option and you shouldn't be punished just because you didn't do vent-crawling instead.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Not only are goals and objectives not synonymous

Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself?

https://www.powerthesaurus.org/goal/synonyms
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/goal
https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/goal
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/goal
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/goal

I am so nice that I've even read the rest of your rant rather than just skipping it through and rate it "TL;DR" or "Butthurt" like everyone else here would do
Instead I am rating as "Funny" because the sight of someone seething this hard over banter is fucking hilarious :lol:
 

DJOGamer PT

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Anyway
This autistic fit of yours is partially my fault, as I should've explained that part of the OP to you the moment you shown to misunderstood it

> XP from quests - you get XP only by completing quest objectives or other overaching objectives (like completing a chapter, goal, etc...)

With that "or" I am clearly stating that this voting option is meant for games that:
- give XP for the completion of quests
- give XP for the achievement of objectives/goals, be they related to a quest or not

The form these goals may come in is diverse (hence why the "etc")
It could be something like: get X gold; "neutralise" X NPC; reach X faction; explore X place; find X object; complete X portion of the game's story; and so on and so forth...
 

Luckmann

Arcane
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There are practically no true synonyms, retard. They are used very differently. To understand what a synonym is, you actually have to understand the words independently, and their meaning(s):
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/objective
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/goal

What is also important is the usage within a given context, such as games, but it would require you to actually play some.

But I'm happy to see that you're now scraping the bottom of the barrel and have boiled this down to grasping at semantic straws.
I [have no argument]
We've all know that all along. Like the brainlet you are, you can only start projecting about your butthurt and little else.
Anyway
This autistic fit of yours is partially my fault, as I should've explained that part of the OP to you the moment you shown to misunderstood it

> XP from quests - you get XP only by completing quest objectives or other overaching objectives (like completing a chapter, goal, etc...)

With that "or" I am clearly stating that this voting option is meant for games that:
- give XP for the completion of quests
- give XP for the achievement of objectives/goals, be they related to a quest or not

The form these goals may come in is diverse (hence why the "etc")
It could be something like: get X gold; "neutralise" X NPC; reach X faction; explore X place; find X object; complete X portion of the game's story; and so on and so forth...
Yes, still not what I'm talking about. My explanation was tongue-in-cheek, but it's evident that you're genuinely too fucking retarded to understand what what is being discussed even with a point-by-point walkthrough, which is honestly beyond sad.
 

DJOGamer PT

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There are practically no true synonyms, retard. They are used very differently. To understand what a synonym is, you actually have to understand the words independently, and their meaning(s):
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/objective
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/goal

Funny thing here is even in these pages you linked to prove me wrong, on synonyms section "goal" and "objective" are given as immeadte synonymous of one another :lol:
Even on the 1st definition of "objective" they liken it to the definition of "goal" :lol: :lol:

Ayy lmao!!!
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,169
Kids love to earn XPs from microtransactions.
 

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