Video games are/aren't art, DISCUSS!

[TemplarGR]

Yeah, just like retarded book nerds hate 50 Shades and read stupid shit like Dostoevsky and film nerds aren't clever enough to understand that Avengers: Endgame is better than anything Kubrick ever made. Why do some people hate fun and everything that is popular? Some people are too stupid to live if they can't understand that the bottom line is how much money something makes and the more money it does make the better it inherently is. They are just born contrarians I guess. Fuck the haters, I'm going to play some Skyrim now, the objectively best RPG game of all time.

Comparing apples to oranges yet again i see.... Film and books are not video games, and video games are NOT art, contrary to popular belief. It is always in "hard core nerdy" places like the Codex that people are too ashamed of wasting their lives on this hobby and are desperately trying to present it as an art form, in order to assign a higher purpose on their entertainment and feel better about wasting their pathetic time on planet Earth on stupid video games.

Oh, and by the way, Dostoevsky and Kubrick are overrated as hell. They are the equivalent of morans in this forum pretending that the best games to play in Christmas 2020 are the original Fallout, Baldur's Gate 2, and the Troika games. They are the token titles every nerd agrees to pretend to admire in order to get accepted in the cult as a "prestigious member". It is like a right of passage to the club, nothing more.

I always laugh at the hypocricy of those morans though. Why they never use Citizen Kane as the example? It is similar to the Codexers never using Ultima I (or at least VII) as the example... Why not go this far back for more incline? Oh, i get it, it is the oldest you can stomach before throwing up, you pretentious faggots. No one can use Citizen Kane today because it sucks, that is why it is never played on TV. Kubrick is as far back as they are willing to go, the faggots. Same with Codexers, you don't want to play 80s games because they are too old even for your pretentious asses, so late 90s is the oldest you are willing to pretend.

Faggots.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Why not go this far back for more incline?

True, genosse! Let's go back to the glorious 1935!

 

[The Last Blackguard]

Comparing apples to oranges yet again i see.... Film and books are not video games, and video games are NOT art, contrary to popular belief. It is always in "hard core nerdy" places like the Codex that people are too ashamed of wasting their lives on this hobby and are desperately trying to present it as an art form, in order to assign a higher purpose on their entertainment and feel better about wasting their pathetic time on planet Earth on stupid video games.

Oh, and by the way, Dostoevsky and Kubrick are overrated as hell. They are the equivalent of morans in this forum pretending that the best games to play in Christmas 2020 are the original Fallout, Baldur's Gate 2, and the Troika games. They are the token titles every nerd agrees to pretend to admire in order to get accepted in the cult as a "prestigious member". It is like a right of passage to the club, nothing more.

I always laugh at the hypocricy of those morans though. Why they never use Citizen Kane as the example? It is similar to the Codexers never using Ultima I (or at least VII) as the example... Why not go this far back for more incline? Oh, i get it, it is the oldest you can stomach before throwing up, you pretentious faggots. No one can use Citizen Kane today because it sucks, that is why it is never played on TV. Kubrick is as far back as they are willing to go, the faggots. Same with Codexers, you don't want to play 80s games because they are too old even for your pretentious asses, so late 90s is the oldest you are willing to pretend.

Faggots.

I fucking love when people say video games are not art as some sort of shield against pretentiousness, because it's a dead giveaway that they're holding a pretentious and inflated view, not of video games, but of goddamn art as some sort of inherent higher quality that a mere *product* could never touch.

I also love the acting like video games are not art is a controversial and brave statement on the codex, where the average user would scream it from the rooftops because "Art is something that left wing SJW prancing fruitcake faggots do."

But that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Video games are not by definition retard. They can have art in them, but that's still not the point.

 

[The Last Blackguard]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/art

I won't say video games are all of the above. But do tell me how they are none of the above.

 

[TemplarGR]

I fucking love when people say video games are not art as some sort of shield against pretentiousness, because it's a dead giveaway that they're holding a pretentious and inflated view, not of video games, but of goddamn art as some sort of inherent higher quality that a mere *product* could never touch.

I also love the acting like video games are not art is a controversial and brave statement on the codex, where the average user would scream it from the rooftops because "Art is something that left wing SJW prancing fruitcake faggots do."

But that's a whole other can of worms.

Oh look, a butthurt faggot got out of the woodwork because i attacked his addiction, like any heroin addict.... Look pal, video games are TOYS. Get over it.

 

[bat_boro]

I fucking love when people say video games are not art as some sort of shield against pretentiousness, because it's a dead giveaway that they're holding a pretentious and inflated view, not of video games, but of goddamn art as some sort of inherent higher quality that a mere *product* could never touch.

I also love the acting like video games are not art is a controversial and brave statement on the codex, where the average user would scream it from the rooftops because "Art is something that left wing SJW prancing fruitcake faggots do."

But that's a whole other can of worms.

Oh look, a butthurt faggot got out of the woodwork because i attacked his addiction, like any heroin addict.... Look pal, video games are TOYS. Get over it.

You're both wrong, the vast majority of video games in current year are actually cancer

 

[The Last Blackguard]

Oh look, a butthurt faggot got out of the woodwork because i attacked his addiction, like any heroin addict.... Look pal, video games are TOYS. Get over it.

Yes. They are. I have much worse addictions than toys, believe me.

But while we're on the subject

What made you think for half a fucking second that I would be ashamed of such an accusation?

More to the point, what made you think that this assertion makes what I said untrue?

Edit: Heated gamer moments

 

[J_C]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/art

I won't say video games are all of the above. But do tell me how they are none of the above.

There is no reason to discuss this topic, because it is obvious. Games can be art. Some are just garbage, useless products (although you can argue that even those are art for someone), but I don't see how a digital sculpture in a game is different from a real life sculpture. Same goes for music, background paintings, digital buldings, writing, film direction. All these are considered art, whether the end result is a real tangible piece, or digital.

 

[Ol' Willy]

"Art is a societal construct"

 

[tritosine2k]

Ebert specifically said videogames can be art, except not in your lifetime,
and made fun of ps360 rendering distance measured in tens of meters (and VR) .

Let me just say that no video gamer now living will survive long enough to experience the medium as an art form

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2020/11/25/real-time-style-transfer-in-unity-using-deep-neural-networks/

Woo weee

 

[J_C]

Ebert specifically said videogames can be art, except not in your lifetime,
and made fun of ps360 rendering distance measured in tens of meters (and VR) .

Let me just say that no video gamer now living will survive long enough to experience the medium as an art form

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2020/11/25/real-time-style-transfer-in-unity-using-deep-neural-networks/

Woo weee

Ebert was just an old man, his opinion on this topic is as good as anyone's.

 

[tritosine2k]

Ebert specifically said videogames can be art, except not in your lifetime,
and made fun of ps360 rendering distance measured in tens of meters (and VR) .

Let me just say that no video gamer now living will survive long enough to experience the medium as an art form

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2020/11/25/real-time-style-transfer-in-unity-using-deep-neural-networks/

Woo weee

Ebert was just an old man, his opinion on this topic is as good as anyone's.

Risk-averse AAA seeks to emulate (the art and success of) cinematography , he provided the context on that and that's even worthwhile to discuss.

 

[Bliblablubb]

But while we're on the subject

The Master Chief is such a lucky stud. Well, unless they removed parts from him, because "he does not need that".

 

[Butter]

Art isn't interactive. Games are interactive. Hideo Kojima games blur the line.

 

[J_C]

Art isn't interactive.

Since when is this a definition of art?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Art isn't interactive.

Since when is this a definition of art?

It's like rpgs. Can't define what it is, but can define what it is not.

 

[Butter]

Art isn't interactive.

Since when is this a definition of art?

I don't really care if it's an accepted definition. It was axiomatic for thousands of years until people wanted to legitimize video games by calling them art.

 

[Harthwain]

I don't really care if it's an accepted definition. It was axiomatic for thousands of years until people wanted to legitimize video games by calling them art.

Games - or entertainment in general - don't need really need "legitimization".

 

[kangaxx]

I don't really care if it's an accepted definition. It was axiomatic for thousands of years until people wanted to legitimize video games by calling them art.

Games - or entertainment in general - don't need really need "legitimization".

Yep - and in any case you can dodge the whole pointless "art" debate by calling them "storytelling devices" or something. You can't really argue with that as a descriptor (for many games anyway).

 

[Butter]

I don't really care if it's an accepted definition. It was axiomatic for thousands of years until people wanted to legitimize video games by calling them art.

Games - or entertainment in general - don't need really need "legitimization".

I agree.

 

[Gargaune]

There is no reason to discuss this topic, because it is obvious. Games can be art. Some are just garbage, useless products (although you can argue that even those are art for someone), but I don't see how a digital sculpture in a game is different from a real life sculpture. Same goes for music, background paintings, digital buldings, writing, film direction. All these are considered art, whether the end result is a real tangible piece, or digital.

Art is an accident of entertainment, and it's a rather subjective, quantitative distinction at that. Like film and literature, videogames constitute an artistic medium which, just like those other mediums (even if they adore pretending otherwise), is overwhelmingly populated by basic works of entertainment. Which is perfectly fine, we all have more use for rote diversion than "art" on a day-to-day basis.

Human beings crave meaning and significance, so we love to invest whatever piece of entertainment manages to make us feel smart and profound with a notion of nobility and call it "art." That's not to diminish the development benefits of consuming intellectual and emotional fodder, nor to suggest that some works aren't clearly smarter than others, but we tend to exaggerate the gap between diverting and formative works as an exercise in self-aggrandisement.

Incidentally, swap "art" for "RPG" in the paragraph above and you've got the basis for a lot of Codex handwringing.

Art isn't interactive. Games are interactive. Hideo Kojima games blur the line.

Back when I was studying software engineering, I sat down with a pair of Arts professors in the run up to a conference, and I distinctly remember how they both bristled when I described videogames as interactive rather than "passive", in relation to other narrative mediums. They explained their point that mediums like film and literature aren't passive, that there's active interplay with the consumer, but they don't feature agency, like videogames do.

Interactivity, or rather "agency", isn't an immutable roadblock for artistic expression, you can tell a story in different ways to achieve the same effects. Obviously, it's a lot more difficult and laborious, but it's feasible. As a sidenote, I suppose a non-videogame example might be CYOA books, but I wouldn't hinge my argument on that assumption since I've never actually read one of those.

Games - or entertainment in general - don't need really need "legitimization".

I largely agree, but there is one aspect to this argument that does have real value, and that's its legal dimension - whether videogames are recognised by the courts, in an extension of public perception, as artistic expression, and therefore afforded the same protections as other established mediums. Beyond that, don't care.

 

[DalekFlay]

Interactivity, or rather "agency", isn't an immutable roadblock for artistic expression, you can tell a story in different ways to achieve the same effects. Obviously, it's a lot more difficult and laborious, but it's feasible.

If videogames themselves are art, not just the assets with them (visuals, writing, etc.), then I wonder where player agency fits in. Is it more "artistic" to create the perfect Doom map with great enemy placement and secrets, or is it more artistic to let you stack buckets up to climb over a security gate and get a shotgun earlier in the game? In the traditional sense the more a designer designs, the more an artist they become, and yet typically a game is praised for how much freedom it gives the player.

 

[Peachcurl]

I'd say games can be art. Some are art some are not. Not every painting is art either. That chainsaw-crafted wood-statue in your backyard may be art, or merely a necessity to explain away the noise when your neighbors get worried...

Anyways.

The Master Chief is such a lucky stud. Well, unless they removed parts from him, because "he does not need that".

The one on the left did it.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

This thread went places.