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Empire of Sin - Brenda and John Romero's turn-based Mafia strategy

Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
13,187
Location
Niggeria
You actually need people to like the base game before you can sell DLC.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
That's incredibly meta if the game actively extorts you as you play it. I take back everything I said, genius.
From much earlier itt:
It seems my first guess was correct.

The setting has potential for a tactical game including varied objectives. They just better not go soft on the subject matter by limiting the crime to bootlegging only, it should have the full spectrum of crime businesses together with rival gangs getting pissed off if you encroach on their market in whores or gambling. Also gang diplomacy in addition to cop corruption mechanics.
DLC racketeering is in from day 1.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
19,116
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria

normie

️‍
Patron
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
3,727
Insert Title Here
I'm liking it

Z0i6sNx.jpg
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,547
Frustrating as hell that this type of game should be really hard to fuck up but people keep fucking it up, making the genre seem commercially questionable when in reality there is unmet demand...
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,559
Frustrating as hell that this type of game should be really hard to fuck up but people keep fucking it up, making the genre seem commercially questionable when in reality there is unmet demand...

Agreed. I don't know what it is that makes it so hard for people to look at what the exemplars of a certain genre did, and properly adapt those into a new piece.

I suspect in this case it's because the developers were more worried about LARPing their fantasy version of the setting than creating good gameplay. Hence why so much of the marketing is focused on window dressing like NPCs and dialogue.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
This was exactly what we needed in a game with a Prohibition-era organized crime theme: gender equality and racial diversity.

Clearly, bigotry is the only possible reason this game could have bombed! :outrage:
 

Iluvcheezcake

Prophet
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,651
Location
Le Balkans
Damn, was really looking forward to this. Well, will check it out later when some patches come, maybe it will br worth s playthrough
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,690
Anyone disappointed in Empire of Sin should keep an eye on City of Gangsters (no, I don't mean Omerta: City of Gangsters):

 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
It's funny how if the dev isn't careful all that glitzy 3D just ends up mucking the readability of those maps. Gangsters had that weekly prep-map in top-down 2D and you could read almost everything on the fly, and then if you needed to comb for select businesses (like a bingo hall to hide a gambling den in), then you used the rolodex. But in 3D the tilted viewpoint makes all of that much harder to do without overcrowding everything.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,559
Here's the blueprint for how to make a proper gangster-themed TB tactics / management sim game.

Create a Mount & Blade like sandbox world. But:
- Instead of an entire country to fight over, you just have a city.
- Instead of kingdoms, you have crime families.
- Instead of fiefs, you have rackets.
- Instead of kings & lords, you have bosses and made men.

Just like in M&B, the player starts as a nobody, just looking to acquire wealth & power.
You only get petty jobs at first, but if you do well, you can ally with one of the families as an associate (i.e. like a mercenary in M&B).
Then if you really prove yourself, the boss will make you a made man (i.e. like a vassalage in M&B).
And once you're in the family and build a lot of influence, you can make a play to become the new boss, or split off and start a family of your own.

The tactical layer should be something like Battle Brothers, with deep turn-based tactics and a crew of personal bodyguards that are procedurally-generated but distinguished by a robust character system. Lots of backstories, stats, traits, quirks, nicknames, etc to make your NPCs feel unique. These bodyguards should level up and get stronger as they grow from novice footpads to hardened criminals, but the power curve needs to be somewhat shallow. This makes it easier to replace losses -- you're having gunfights, which means people should be getting killed from time to time -- and also avoids a common pitfall in TB tactics games where max-level parties make everything a faceroll.

Rackets should be fairly simple -- maybe a few things to upgrade here and there, but mostly they are just there to feed you money and resources, so you can buy and equip more thugs, which allows you to conquer more rackets, which gives you more money and resources...

The last feature worth noting -- and this is very key -- is diplomacy. Not just between gangster factions, but also with the law, because the legal system is just as big of a risk to your gangster career as your rivals are. The ultra-violence you commit to expand your power should be counter-balanced by the notoriety it generates with the authorities, and the game should have appropriate mechanics to reflect that. The bigger you get, the better your chances of getting nailed. But of course, the player should have some room to maneuver here as well, such as bribing cops and politicians, etc.

It's really not that hard of a concept, which makes it all the more confusing why no one has been able to do it.
 

GrafvonMoltke

Shoutbox Purity League
Shitposter
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
2,527
Location
Land of the Great Steppe
Here's the blueprint for how to make a proper gangster-themed TB tactics / management sim game.

Create a Mount & Blade like sandbox world. But:
- Instead of an entire country to fight over, you just have a city.
- Instead of kingdoms, you have crime families.
- Instead of fiefs, you have rackets.
- Instead of kings & lords, you have bosses and made men.

Just like in M&B, the player starts as a nobody, just looking to acquire wealth & power.
You only get petty jobs at first, but if you do well, you can ally with one of the families as an associate (i.e. like a mercenary in M&B).
Then if you really prove yourself, the boss will make you a made man (i.e. like a vassalage in M&B).
And once you're in the family and build a lot of influence, you can make a play to become the new boss, or split off and start a family of your own.

The tactical layer should be something like Battle Brothers, with deep turn-based tactics and a crew of personal bodyguards that are procedurally-generated but distinguished by a robust character system. Lots of backstories, stats, traits, quirks, nicknames, etc to make your NPCs feel unique. These bodyguards should level up and get stronger as they grow from novice footpads to hardened criminals, but the power curve needs to be somewhat shallow. This makes it easier to replace losses -- you're having gunfights, which means people should be getting killed from time to time -- and also avoids a common pitfall in TB tactics games where max-level parties make everything a faceroll.

Rackets should be fairly simple -- maybe a few things to upgrade here and there, but mostly they are just there to feed you money and resources, so you can buy and equip more thugs, which allows you to conquer more rackets, which gives you more money and resources...

The last feature worth noting -- and this is very key -- is diplomacy. Not just between gangster factions, but also with the law, because the legal system is just as big of a risk to your gangster career as your rivals are. The ultra-violence you commit to expand your power should be counter-balanced by the notoriety it generates with the authorities, and the game should have appropriate mechanics to reflect that. The bigger you get, the better your chances of getting nailed. But of course, the player should have some room to maneuver here as well, such as bribing cops and politicians, etc.

It's really not that hard of a concept, which makes it all the more confusing why no one has been able to do it.

You just described Gangsters: Organized Crime.
 

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