KickStarter Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem - open world isometric action-RPG

[Reinhardt]

I always felt POE story reaked of leftist stuff. Among characters there is a lesbian, a feminist, a racial aborigine and probably a gay person. The whole story was about the opressed fighting against the evil empire. "We do this for freedom!".

Nigga dafug are you talking? PoE is just carbon copy of first Diablo where negro sorcerer and stronk archer wymmen fights against corrypt church person. Don't need to bring some ching-chong conspiracy. You MUST fight some sort of evul empire - arpg genre dictates it. Who else would send thousands of cannon fodder for player to murder and loot?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Truly 4D chess by my fellow superior Chinese to corrupt the west through fighting against an evil empire in ARPG.

That's why PoE Act 1 is all about that right? That's the clear Tencent influence.

Oh wait Act 1 has been out for some years before Tencent even buy GGG in 2018/

When one side is insane leftist and the other side is insane conservative conspiracy theorist, no wonder the west is so retarded today.

 

[Peachcurl]

There are well documented cases where money was used to influence western media. Say, in movies that were co-financed by Chinese companies.

I don't remember a single case where that was done to push some kind of leftist agenda. All those cases had some relation to China's ... let's say geopolitical interests (e.g., Taiwan, Honkong, Tibet).

 

[Reinhardt]

Wolcen just beat POE peak...

Didn't aged well.

 

[luj1]

Last Epoch shits all over Wolcen.

What is Last Epoch?

 

[Bara]

Last Epoch shits all over Wolcen.

What is Last Epoch?

Time Travel ARPG it is one of the ones I'm pinning my hopes on being decent.

 

[Perkel]

Looks like they mostly fixed main stats. Previously how fast you were was tied to dexterity and level. So if you put 5 points into dex at level 2 to get 10 dex you had around 30-40% improved speed of attack but when you would level up it would fall down to around 15-20% and with those extra 5 points it would go back to only around 25-30% instead of 30-40%.

Now you start with 5 points which gives you 0.1% improved speed, with extra 5 points you get 0.5% improved speed and it doesn't change if you level up.

Only Ferocity is still like old one now. So you start with 20% crit chance then you put 5 points into that and you get 25% or something like that, level up and you are now 17%.

I guess small progress ?

also from what i have looked on their tree they changed a lot of "this gives you +50% speed" to something like +6% which suggest they figured out what is multiplication and how it is different from adding.

The minus is that that you can't unlock Champions of Stormfall by ini anymore :/ So you have to play again campaign. Will be playing it today to see all changes.

edit

Wisdom is still the same old shit. So only Agility and Toughness work as flat regardless of level.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Official announcement is out. Expansions available today:

Without the full patch notes, and based merely on what they've said, it doesn't sound like they are adding anything useful to the game. More buildings added to end game? Why? They should've just scrapped that entire aspect in the first place, because it's rubbish. Are we supposed to do that town grind again with each season? Is that the intention? I don't know anyone who wanted to do it the first time. Rebalancing skills and adding new ones is all well and good, but no matter how broken the current skills were, they were not even close to being the biggest problem with the game. The main flaw of Wolcen is that it's simply boring as fuck. The campaign content in it is alright the first time but already dull the second, and the end game is the least inspiring of its kind that I've seen in the genre. And it doesn't seem like they've done much to improve on it, just add more dull crap. The game needed something new and good, not more of the same. I'll revise my opinion if it comes out that they did change the end game to be more engaging, but from what I've read, it doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Sykar]

Official announcement is out. Expansions available today:

Without the full patch notes, and based merely on what they've said, it doesn't sound like they are adding anything useful to the game. More buildings added to end game? Why? They should've just scrapped that entire aspect in the first place, because it's rubbish. Are we supposed to do that town grind again with each season? Is that the intention? I don't know anyone who wanted to do it the first time. Rebalancing skills and adding new ones is all well and good, but no matter how broken the current skills were, they were not even close to being the biggest problem with the game. The main flaw of Wolcen is that it's simply boring as fuck. The campaign content in it is alright the first time but already dull the second, and the end game is the least inspiring of its kind that I've seen in the genre. And it doesn't seem like they've done much to improve on it, just add more dull crap. The game needed something new and good, not more of the same. I'll revise my opinion if it comes out that they did change the end game to be more engaging, but from what I've read, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Rubbish? Certainly more interesting than D3 or PoE endgame if not by much. Campaign? GD beats all of them easily. D3 has the worst. PoE, nothing of value was added past act 4. Huge waste of time.

 

[Reinhardt]

The campaign content in it is alright the first time

No. It makes your eyes, ears and brian bleed even first time. Now that you can't even skip it it's even worse.

 

[what am i doing]

Making a Diablo clone revolve around "endgame" is a fucking retarded idea and probably the main reason Wolcen ended up being such a mess (and such a waste of potential). Diablo 2 was a massive success and had no "repeating endgame" at all. Why did people keep playing it? Because the campaign was really, really fucking good, both to dive back into areas you'd been to before and to play as a fresh run. Hell it's the kind of game that people would reinstall repeatedly over the years even after the graphics became obscenely dated, just to play it again, because the campaign was that good. The game's 20 years old and people still play it (not in huge numbers, but it isn't dead either, especially when private servers are considered, and the fact that basically everyone's played it and it's really easy to get a LAN party going). People will probably still be playing it another 20 years from now.

I never once had the desire to go back and replay any part of Wolcen's campaign or to start off a new character by playing through the campaign. And I've not reinstalled it either. My drive to reinstall Diablo 2 is always to have a fresh go at the campaign. And then while I'm at it I'll usually play for some time longer to grind some items and trick out my character... but the grind is not the reason I reinstall, it's just something that the game leads me into doing. I've never reinstalled Diablo 2 for the grind. Wolcen's central premise is its endgame mode - aka, grinding. They even let you skip the campaign on any character after the first. If the campaign isn't good and the object of the game is to grind then why play it at all?

They should have not even had the repeatable endgame content in the game at all, on release (could have been a later addition); all their effort should have gone into releasing a high quality, polished, complete campaign with a stable game that made co-op quick and easy. Everything else could have gone in later, but they wanted to have the PoE model right from the start.

It's a shame too because I like the "Fantasy Warhammer 40,000" art style (not to be confused with Warhammer Fantasy), the premise of the setting, the music, etc. They have a lot of good stuff going for them that could have been leveraged into a great Diablo clone.

I am still disappointed.

 

[Robber Baron]

Games like Diablo 2 are just one of the kind - right time, right place, the talent, the money, the passion all there together. It's hard to recreate that and more than that, I'm 100% sure it's impossible to recreate that if your whole goal is trying to recreate.

 

[kreight]

Stop with this "diablo clone" bullshit you fucking retarded elitists. Yes diablo was the first, it invented the genre. But you don't call FPS games "doom clone" or "whatever the fuck was the first shooter game clone". This moronic attitude of yours is annoying as fuck.

 

[Robber Baron]

Don't blame the consumers if it's the product that lacks self-identity

 

[what am i doing]

Stop with this "diablo clone" bullshit you fucking retarded elitists. Yes diablo was the first, it invented the genre. But you don't call FPS games "doom clone" or "whatever the fuck was the first shooter game clone". This moronic attitude of yours is annoying as fuck.

When there are some worthy successors (besides Nox) and Diablo 2 no longer stands head and shoulders above all the imitators, maybe it'll be appropriate to call the genre something else. Diablo 2 is just so much better than nearly everything else in the genre that it is by far the most relevant and significant game in the genre, and thus the genre basically revolves around it. You don't call FPS games "doom clones" because Doom is nowhere near that good relative to all other games in its genre.

 

[Sykar]

Stop with this "diablo clone" bullshit you fucking retarded elitists. Yes diablo was the first, it invented the genre. But you don't call FPS games "doom clone" or "whatever the fuck was the first shooter game clone". This moronic attitude of yours is annoying as fuck.

Technically Gauntlet was first.

 

[Reinhardt]

Diablo 2 is just so much better

Diablo > Diablo 2, Fallout > Fallout 2, BG > BG 2.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

You had three 50/50 shots and got each one wrong, impressive.

 

[DeepOcean]

Stop with this "diablo clone" bullshit you fucking retarded elitists. Yes diablo was the first, it invented the genre. But you don't call FPS games "doom clone" or "whatever the fuck was the first shooter game clone". This moronic attitude of yours is annoying as fuck.

Most Diablo clone makers are still sucking the balls of Diablo II to this day with little improvement, it isnt that they couldnt implement their own formulas but they dont care and are just sucking an winning formula dry, take Path of Exile, the best Diablo clone right now in terms of volume of content, besides some inovations on the economy aspect of the game as Path of Exile tries to turn all gameplay systems linked to the economy system of the game, the core gameplay remains the same and anyone that played Diablo II will have the feeling of deja vu.

If you play shooters, Doom is very different from Duke Nukem that is different from Half Life, that are different from FEAR. Many ARPGs are called Diablo clones because most of them dont have enough of an identity so you feel they are legitimate new spins on a genre. They are all like someone took Diablo 2, modded it then released it on Steam, actually, Diablo II mods are much more inclined and different from base Diablo II than most of those games.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Stop with this "diablo clone" bullshit you fucking retarded elitists. Yes diablo was the first, it invented the genre. But you don't call FPS games "doom clone" or "whatever the fuck was the first shooter game clone". This moronic attitude of yours is annoying as fuck.

Wolfenstein came earlier, besides. And wolfenstein clone is a mouthful.

 

[Perkel]

"Diablo 2 didn't have an end game"

Who want to do 9999 bhall run with me ?
Taxi for Ancients !

D2 absolutely had an end game which consisted mostly of bhall runs. I know because i spend nearly 2k hours in it on battlenet. Aside from that you paid for taxi usually with ancient drops so that you can skip that campaign.

But yes D2 campaign was good.

 

[what am i doing]

"Diablo 2 didn't have an end game"

Who want to do 9999 bhall run with me ?
Taxi for Ancients !

It wasn't designed as such, though. It just happened to be a good place for getting XP (and to a lesser extent items, but the gap was less pronounced there, Mephisto was also good for farming a lot of priority gear). But the developers didn't set out with the goal of having people repeatedly kill Baal to farm (or Diablo, before LoD).

 

[Perkel]

It wasn't designed as such, though. It just happened to be a good place for getting XP (and to a lesser extent items, but the gap was less pronounced there, Mephisto was also good for farming a lot of priority gear). But the developers didn't set out with the goal of having people repeatedly kill Baal to farm (or Diablo, before LoD).

Yeah and ?

This is why ARPGs added end game. Because no one wants to play campaign every time they create character and definitely not some one level or two at end of the game 99999 times.

 

[what am i doing]

It wasn't designed as such, though. It just happened to be a good place for getting XP (and to a lesser extent items, but the gap was less pronounced there, Mephisto was also good for farming a lot of priority gear). But the developers didn't set out with the goal of having people repeatedly kill Baal to farm (or Diablo, before LoD).

Yeah and ?

This is why ARPGs added end game. Because no one wants to play campaign every time they create character and definitely not some one level or two at end of the game 99999 times.

Yeah and that's why none of them come close to being as good as Diablo 2, because Condor set out to make a really great game whereas these people set out to make a game about grinding.

 

[Robber Baron]

shit now I want to replay D2