Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Decline Why do almost all jrpg try to mimic ff7?

Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
862
Location
Ali Ghaylān
I have lately started to try out new games from a genre that was kind of unknown for me, the Japanese role playing game. But I have quickly noticed that every single one of them plays much like final fantasy 7, even sharing a lot of gameplay features from it - including the really really bad ones.

Now I really did not like final fantasy 7 I thought it was really tacky and lame, I tried to replay that too lately and it's kind of an ugly game and not that good. Strong nostalgia glasses over there. This way it's even more disappointing thing that all of these other games try to mimic its core techniques and gameplay. Has there been a general consensus as to why such a mediocre game has had such a huge influence, even in the terms of flaws?
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,565
I'll take the bait.

Because it's wrong? For example the amounts of jrpg mimicking early Wizardries is very big as well, then there are all the action ones, the materia or something similar is really not a staple of jrpgs, classic SMT are classic SMT, Persona are Persona, SaGa are SaGa, Tales Of are Tales Of, Atelier are Atelier ...

Dragon Quest series is simlar to Final Fantasy in many ways and many JPRGs follow the legacy of Dragon Quest 1. Presence of trash random fights have nothing do with FF7, abstract turn-based combat inspired by Wizardry has nothing to do with FF7, all games used those and those who didn't either were shit or were more action games which were considered less cool, think Secret Of Mana vs Chrono Trigger, the cool game was always the latter. And for good reasons in my opinion, RPGs should have turn-based combat, not action. Stupid ways to unlock optional content is linked to selling guides in Japan. FF7 does not have the utter retarded modern anime art. Many SNES JRPGs have the kind of protagonists, casts and plots that FF7 have.

Hollywood presentation with a mixture with cutscenes and a lot of cringy dialogs (plots were kind the same before, just, overall, no thrown at your face cutscenes and a line of dialog here and there, often very few actual dialogs between your characters, making them more of your own, that's completely different) was amplified at the time, that's a terrible trend, I hate this stuff, and even many of the series I have mentioned followed the trend, and I give you that FF7 is by far the most symptomatic game of this trend, and I think that saying it's one of the first is simplifying but not totally disingenuous.

The big budget and aggressive marketing campaign of FF7 are a thing. Its success is a thing too. The thing is, whether it's due to using the features that people wanted at the time, or that it went successful then everybody used the same features regardless of what people really wanted, is always a complicated topic but let's at least agree that if it did what people totally did not want then it would not have been such a big success. Claiming that in the alternative reality where FF7 does not exist then this does not happen is bold, in my opinion, judging by various discussions about the game I'd even claim it's exactly that cutscenes and cringy dialogs that people wanted and liked which is something other games would have obviously done, there's nothing original about games wanting to be movies, and the worst possible way, FF7 did not bring something to the table which would change the genre, if FF7 did not exist then the genre nowadays would be the exact same.
 

TheImplodingVoice

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
1,958
Location
Embelyon
ce6.png
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
862
Location
Ali Ghaylān
I'll take the bait.

Because it's wrong? For example the amounts of jrpg mimicking early Wizardries is very big as well, then there are all the action ones, the materia or something similar is really not a staple of jrpgs, classic SMT are classic SMT, Persona are Persona, SaGa are SaGa, Tales Of are Tales Of, Atelier are Atelier ...

Dragon Quest series is simlar to Final Fantasy in many ways and many JPRGs follow the legacy of Dragon Quest 1. Presence of trash random fights have nothing do with FF7, abstract turn-based combat inspired by Wizardry has nothing to do with FF7, all games used those and those who didn't either were shit or were more action games which were considered less cool, think Secret Of Mana vs Chrono Trigger, the cool game was always the latter. And for good reasons in my opinion, RPGs should have turn-based combat, not action. Stupid ways to unlock optional content is linked to selling guides in Japan. FF7 does not have the utter retarded modern anime art. Many SNES JRPGs have the kind of protagonists, casts and plots that FF7 have.

Hollywood presentation with a mixture with cutscenes and a lot of cringy dialogs (plots were kind the same before, just, overall, no thrown at your face cutscenes and a line of dialog here and there, often very few actual dialogs between your characters, making them more of your own, that's completely different) was amplified at the time, that's a terrible trend, I hate this stuff, and even many of the series I have mentioned followed the trend, and I give you that FF7 is by far the most symptomatic game of this trend, and I think that saying it's one of the first is simplifying but not totally disingenuous.

The big budget and aggressive marketing campaign of FF7 are a thing. Its success is a thing too. The thing is, whether it's due to using the features that people wanted at the time, or that it went successful then everybody used the same features regardless of what people really wanted, is always a complicated topic but let's at least agree that if it did what people totally did not want then it would not have been such a big success. Claiming that in the alternative reality where FF7 does not exist then this does not happen is bold, in my opinion, judging by various discussions about the game I'd even claim it's exactly that cutscenes and cringy dialogs that people wanted and liked which is something other games would have obviously done, there's nothing original about games wanting to be movies, and the worst possible way, FF7 did not bring something to the table which would change the genre, if FF7 did not exist then the genre nowadays would be the exact same.

The issue I have is not the existence of FF7, but that to this day so many games insist on trying to copy it gameplay rather than improving on it. The whole genre seems to use it as its backbone pretending that FF7 is a perfect game, absolutely refusing to drop even its worst influences. The UI's still carry huge influence and use the most retarded things of it as a carryover that they absolutely refuse to drop. One of these are terrible skill/item lists that lack proper sorting or categorisation, where the game assumes you know everything or are autistically browsing a gameplay guide at all times. Same goes for ridiculous gameplay "features" that are not explained, which might be yes to trying to sell guides, that you have to google to figure out what the hell you're supposed to do or what is even the point of the feature.

The content is not really "optional", when things like best loot and whole subplots and areas are locked behind completing those ridiculous minigames. Final Fantasy 7 even had a fucking CPR minigame out of nowhere to advance the plot. These are not fun, they're abyssmal and it's time to start dropping them.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
The only ongoing series with something similar to the materia system that I can think of is the "Trails of..." series, but they don't use a Wizardry-style battle system.
 

Cat Dude

Savant
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
498
Probably the first jrpg to have weeb shit in the sub genre.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom