Codex Preview RPG Codex Preview: Knights of the Chalice 2 - Augury of Chaos

[Jasede]

Clicking reload till you win is not a valid skill.

You guys who think clicking reload is enough to win in this game are just really good at video games, any choice of feats, equipment, spells, which spell to use, which enemy to target, in which order to take the encounters, which resource to use or keep, when to sleep, what to buy, what to craft, what dialog option to pick, the answer to every puzzle ... everything is always completely obvious to you.

However to me who's not good at video games it is not obvious, no way I feel like I can win just be reloading, I have got ton of flexibility in making better or worse choices and problems to solve all along the game.

You really rubbed my belly with this message! I'm one of those who believes the battles are only a matter of rolling the right initiative in this game. But your point is fair: the people like me have been playing games like this since we were old enough to use a computer. We know the spells to use, the builds to use, the best way to fight most monsters, and even their stats and special abilities without having to look them up. I guess that does give us a big leg up.

 

[Fenix]

What has to be said about the above is that this is not even particularly “difficult.” It's just depressing. The way all those enemy mages come pre-buffed with a mix of blur, mirror image, mind blank, foresight, good fortune, dispelling buffer, stoneskin and contingent break enchantment is depressing. The way they all know ALL the spells their class has to offer is depressing. The way they just keep spawning new ones is depressing. The way they always open up with accelerated spell into double instakill nuke cast is depressing. Their up-the-ass spell resistance is depressing. The fact they stand on freaking towers and can’t be reached by melee characters is depressing.

It’s like peeling a gigantic rotten onion. You keep stripping the layers one by one, you cry all the way through, your fingers stink, and ultimately it doesn’t do you any good.

I yelled like a Tarsan from this piece.

This is almostthe only one ofthese Codex long-winged revios I have read, and the other one was also by Darth Roxor. Love you pal.
Also Dorateen - I played BoA but sadly never its player made campaigns, back then when I played Avernum and BoA I haveread about them a bit,seems theywere good.

P.S. Also, I have noticed there is a character onpoic,called Canoness Selena - is it your character? Was it you who named it like this?

Too many roots and not enough meat in his diet

Wait, is he... - vegan?

 

[Roguey]

Wait, is he... - vegan?

Not voluntarily. At one point he was so impoverished that he could only afford to eat roots.

 

[Fenix]

Ah shit...
This could actually get a serious hit on health.

 

[Skdursh]

"...and it isn’t trivial money either, because the cost is 1250 gold times the target level, so it keeps growing exponentially, and you can have up to 9 dudes to keep levelling up."

I don't think "exponentially" means what you think it means. That's a linear increase. It would be exponential if it were (1250^n), not (1250 * n).

 

[Tacgnol]

"...and it isn’t trivial money either, because the cost is 1250 gold times the target level, so it keeps growing exponentially, and you can have up to 9 dudes to keep levelling up."

I don't think "exponentially" means what you think it means. That's a linear increase. It would be exponential if it were (1250^n), not (1250 * n).

Pretty sure Roxor was using the term purely to denote a high cost. Like "literal" (ironically) exponential has more than one meaning these days.

It's like when people use the term "decimation" to refer to total annihilation. Not correct, but unfortunately how the term has entered common parlance.

 

[Maxie]

"...and it isn’t trivial money either, because the cost is 1250 gold times the target level, so it keeps growing exponentially, and you can have up to 9 dudes to keep levelling up."

I don't think "exponentially" means what you think it means. That's a linear increase. It would be exponential if it were (1250^n), not (1250 * n).

Pretty sure Roxor was using the term purely to denote a high cost. Like "literal" (ironically) exponential has more than one meaning these days.

It's like when people use the term "decimation" to refer to total annihilation. Not correct, but unfortunately how the term has entered common parlance.

double apostrophes are for phrases not for individual words, as in ''youre a disgusting snob''

 

[Skdursh]

double apostrophes are for phrases not for individual words, as in ''youre a disgusting snob''

You don't even capitalize or use punctuation, but ignoring that I used the quotation marks in the form of a 'scare quote'. Look it up, retard.

 

[NJClaw]

double apostrophes are for phrases not for individual words, as in ''youre a disgusting snob''

You don't even capitalize or use punctuation, but ignoring that I used the quotation marks in the form of a 'scare quote'. Look it up, retard.

Please don't bully Maxie, he is doing the best he can.

 

[Tacgnol]

double apostrophes are for phrases not for individual words, as in ''youre a disgusting snob''

You don't even capitalize or use punctuation, but ignoring that I used the quotation marks in the form of a 'scare quote'. Look it up, retard.

Please don't bully Maxie, he is doing the best he can.

Yep he fights hard to overcome his syphilitic brain damage. Truly a modern inspiration.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

could someone unpin this review already? I missed a bunch of news because I am too lazy to scroll down.

kthx

 

[Fenix]

double apostrophes are for phrases not for individual words

Really? O_O

 

[Roguey]

Really? O_O

No, he's wrong. You use the single for when you're quoting something inside a quote.

 

[Chaotic Lulz3r]

Really? O_O

No, he's wrong. You use the single for when you're quoting something inside a quote.

In American English. In British English, also known as TRVE English, it's the exact opposite. The rules for where to place punctuation marks at the end of a quote are different as well.

Haven't posted in a while, but I just loved this review. And it's pretty mind-boggling to me that some gamers defend reload cycles fifty tries long. No accounting for individual taste of course, but at least part of the argument seems to be that since ancient games based on obsolete versions of even more ancient systems did it, then it's legit game design. Which it isn't.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Winning fights by reloading is degenerate design.

What is the challenge in hitting the load button? Test of patience?

And it's pretty mind-boggling to me that some gamers defend reload cycles fifty tries long. No accounting for individual taste of course, but at least part of the argument seems to be that since ancient games based on obsolete versions of even more ancient systems did it, then it's legit game design. Which it isn't.

What would be the alternative exactly?
No reloads necessary at all?
It'd be degenerate design because it means the game is piss-easy.

The earliest versions of Augury of Chaos had game breaking bugs and sluggish combat.
Now, game breaking bugs are gone (at least, didn't experience any playing v1.05, 1.08 being the latest) and the combat plays faster.
Some games are faster but i guess it's the counterpart for having such a good AI.

Many people here are complaining about the game difficulty but they hate the customized difficulty options as well.
So, what do they want really?
It's obvious, they want the highest difficulty to be within their reach so they'd feel good about themselves.

It's not the case, they suck.
I know it hurts but it is a cruel world...

 

[Darth Roxor]

What would be the alternative exactly?

f a t e p o i n t s

 

[Jasede]

No brother, a well-designed game means that you lose as soon as you make a mistake. Making a mistake in such a game is very easy, but if you played perfectly, you'd always beat it. Examples of such design are games like Ninja Gaiden (Xbox), Bayonetta, God Hand, Devil May Cry 3, Ikaruga, Ketsui, Dodonpachi, Orcs & Elves, Time Splitters 2. Those are games were for the most part a single mistake means game over, or the loss of your life/progress. These mistakes are never because of RNG or losing initiative. They're, in these games, always your fault: you didn't dodge. You forgot that enemy spawned there. You missed the enemy.

Having played much harder games than Kotc2, I assure you that it and its difficulty is purely the result of poor design and not of the difficulty being too high. There are much more difficult games, games you aren't going to beat by reloading until you finally roll right. Instead, you beat them by improving yourself until finally you can master them every single time.

So what does that look like in an RPG? In such an RPG you'd be punished for making the wrong move in combat, for having a sub par party or build, for missing too many hidden treasures, for not exploring thoroughly enough, for not exploiting an enemy's weakness.

D&D isn't meant to be a game in which your party loses the fight because they lost initiative. Even a devastating first round should at worst incapacitate one or two party members. That's where the DM comes in: he can fudge rolls to help balance out the innate variance RNG provides, thus always keeping a fight as difficult or fair at the situation demands.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Shadenuat]

D&D is made to show the struggle of low hp fighter against last goblin, not for 6-8+summons+pets tactical fights with 22 enemies. Although even that is does meh - in fantasy heroes struggle against dark magic, succumb to it slowly, break through etc., in games it's 1 failed save and done.

As for alternative for a game with magic, MTG has it - instant spells/counter spells and abilities. Break the mold where inside a turn another side is completely helpless and either ai stomps player due to lucky rolls or player stomps AI because AI can't react in any way in its turn.

But that's all systems; you can also solve this through practical science of dungeon/monster ecology and level design.

 

[Grunker]

As for alternative for a game with magic, MTG has it - instant spells/counter spells and abilities. Break the mold where inside a turn another side is completely helpless and either ai stomps player due to lucky rolls or player stomps AI because AI can't react in any way in its turn.

This is 5E's solution as well. Even if you don't have a Counterspell straight out you can have other reactions that allow to alleviate the effects of a key attack.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah, you can set reaction triggers, and counterspelling is more OP than ever.

 

[Haba]

Winning fights by reloading is degenerate design.

What is the challenge in hitting the load button? Test of patience?

What would be the alternative exactly?
No reloads necessary at all?
It'd be degenerate design because it means the game is piss-easy.

Imagine X-Com play-through where you reload every time you lose a soldier.

Imagine that all enemies are equipped with Blaster Launchers.

That is KotC2 at the moment.

Good balance isn't that hard to figure out. Sometimes you make mistakes and get wiped out. Sometimes you make mistakes but you get through it with losses. You know, you get knocked out instead of dying outright, etc.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Examples of such design are games like Ninja Gaiden (Xbox), Bayonetta, God Hand, Devil May Cry 3, Ikaruga, Ketsui, Dodonpachi, Orcs & Elves, Time Splitters 2

Didn't play any but lurking on some forums when i was searching a tactical RPG, i've read Bayonetta was piss easy.
Seriously, if these games were the alpha and the omega, it'd be well known around here...

As for alternative for a game with magic, MTG has it - instant spells/counter spells and abilities.

Are you talking about a card game now? Magic the Gathering? (i did play one, can't remember which, probably the best one and enjoyed it but it's not the same thing, it's just a card game)
Seriously? First jrpgs and now this...

Imagine X-Com play-through where you reload every time you lose a soldier.

Imagine that all enemies are equipped with Blaster Launchers.

That is KotC2 at the moment.

Good balance isn't that hard to figure out. Sometimes you make mistakes and get wiped out. Sometimes you make mistakes but you get through it with losses. You know, you get knocked out instead of dying outright, etc.

I did many superhuman runs with no losses or close to it, it involves reloads, of course but once you pick the pace, the ride is just slightly bumpy.
As for the blaster launcher analogy, i'll say only one thing : "chain mind control"

I won't deny some enemies are cheated but if you take a good look at them instead of rushing blindly, you avoid unnecessary deaths and reloads.
It's a game where you have to check most enemies to see what they can do on first playthrough and take a lot of time checking spells and feats descriptions and also search for enchantments effects.

 

[Shadenuat]

Are you talking about a card game now? Magic the Gathering? (i did play one, can't remember which, probably the best one and enjoyed it but it's not the same thing, it's just a card game)
Seriously? First jrpgs and now this...

I can do JRPGs too. They do, at least, seem to always put gameplay first so it doesn't collapse on third encounter, else later; and you can usually complete them without any game breaking bugs.

Spoiler

they also bought Wizardry while "real" developers left it for dead on the road

 

[Whisper]

Seriously? First jrpgs and now this....

We should ignore those who talk about jrpgs, they contribute nothing useful for discussion of games.

You know how it can happen. If first watch anime, play jrpg, make furry avatars on Codex, then they start to suck dicks - and become disgrace of the family. Some of the roads are better not be taken.