Ol' Willy
Arcane
San Andreas has RPG elements as well.It has RPG elements, though.
Not exactly a ton of them, but enough to be called an Action-RPG.
San Andreas on RPGCodex Top 100 when?
San Andreas has RPG elements as well.It has RPG elements, though.
Not exactly a ton of them, but enough to be called an Action-RPG.
I employ a very loose definition of RPG by which a lot of stuff can pass as one that passes not for a lot of people. Witcher, Fallout 3-4, that one Terminator game, Elder Scrolls, all are (bad) rpgs to me. Cyberpunk is not.
It is as much of an RPG as Borderlands. It is a looter shooter with unusually distinct character classes.
I employ a very loose definition of RPG by which a lot of stuff can pass as one that passes not for a lot of people. Witcher, Fallout 3-4, that one Terminator game, Elder Scrolls, all are (bad) rpgs to me. Cyberpunk is not.
It is as much of an RPG as Borderlands. It is a looter shooter with unusually distinct character classes.
Why would you consider Fallout 4 an RPG but Cyberpunk not? I would see it the other way around.
So what is the defining quality, basically?
Maybe i'll give F4 another whirl with survival mode, maybe that will change my perspective.
Please show any evidence of me trying to buld up Cyberpunk you butthurt moron.You wouldn't be trashing Witcher 3 if it wasn't convenient to your hilariously pathetic attempt to build up Cybpershit. Go choke on a dildo.Your brain is stale. You are welcome to find a post by me where I say Witcher 3 is a) an RPG or b) a good RPG.Fine by me. Now, if a non-RPG was Codex RPGOTY 2015, why wouldn't another non-RPG contest the same prize in 2020?
Also funny that even if we agree that none of them are RPGs, CP2077 has more RPG elements in it than TW3.
Ah yes the classic retard fanboy practice of trashing the developer's previous title to build up the current steaming pile of shit. Bethesda fanfags did the same thing with Oblivion, and then Skyrim after it. Your act is stale.
Its an action adventure title(seriously) inspired by a pnp game. Games can have rpg elements but it doesn't make them rpgs, then sports titles would fucking qualify.
Character Skill> Player Skill should be the dominant factor. Ask yourself if the game would still functionally be the same without those rpg mechanics.
Just an observation here, but as a system concept, why do you feel that tying bullet spread to skill progression is that much worse than non-progressing bullet spread? Because most modern FPS games have bullet spread, at least they did last time I checked, and they have it varying with those exact same triggers of recoil and movement sway. Balance aside, all the Deus Ex formula does is slap it onto a progression scale with skill points.The problem really is that the effect of skills on combat in a real-time environment is rarely satisfying. It results in either a frustrating miss fest because skills are tied to to-hit chance (Morrowind at low levels, Deus Ex's implementation of aiming, VTMB too iirc)
Hold up, but then isn't this a simple taxonomy issue? 'Cause I get the feeling that when you say "RPG" you mean "cRPG", whereas when I say "RPG" I think of the general umbrella category that includes both "cRPG" and "Action/Action-Adventure RPG." So, for instance, you've got Baldur's Gate for a cRPG and Deus Ex as an Action-Adventure RPG, they both fall under RPG in general, but obviously that doesn't make Deus Ex a cRPG.Many games have RPG elements, and many games scratch the RPG itch, even if they are action RPGs.
This is a pretty good way of looking at it. A good question to ask yourself is: how much do my choices in character creation, dialogue, and combat, actually matter? For something to be an RPG two or three of these elements should be heavily choice-dependent. In Cyberpunk (similar to Skyrim and Fallout 4) your choices in these three areas matter almost not at all. Character creation has little to no impact on how the game plays. In dialogue there is almost always only one choice (with different ways of saying it - good use of VA resources!) In combat you can use a couple different guns, a shitty sword, or hacking. Contrast this to any one of the myriad of classic RPGs and you see how grossly different it is. To consider this trash an RPG you'd have to consider Skyrim and Fallout 4 RPGs. There's no way around it.Its an action adventure title(seriously) inspired by a pnp game. Games can have rpg elements but it doesn't make them rpgs, then sports titles would fucking qualify.
Character Skill> Player Skill should be the dominant factor. Ask yourself if the game would still functionally be the same without those rpg mechanics.
This and darkpatriot's "felt I am playing an RPG" are the most important statements.
Many games have RPG elements, and many games scratch the RPG itch, even if they are action RPGs. But ultimately it doesn't boil down to the mechanics simply being there, but whether it really feels like you are playing an RPG.
Case New Vegas: in combat, I don't feel like I'm playing an RPG. In dialogue and quest branches, it does.
Case Deus Ex: in combat, it doesn't feel like I'm playing an RPG. Neither it does in dialogue. But my upgrades and augmentations do make me feel like I'm playing an RPG when it comes to tackling obstacles the way I want to.
Case Skyrim: it never feels like I'm playing an RPG at all. There are very few quests with branching. Combat always pretty much feels the same, thanks to level scaling and the low difficulty. Dialogue options are near unexisting. It has RPG mechanics, but they never matter enough to fool me into thinking "ah, yes, this is an RPG".
Hold up, but then isn't this a simple taxonomy issue? 'Cause I get the feeling that when you say "RPG" you mean "cRPG", whereas when I say "RPG" I think of the general umbrella category that includes both "cRPG" and "Action/Action-Adventure RPG." So, for instance, you've got Baldur's Gate for a cRPG and Deus Ex as an Action-Adventure RPG, they both fall under RPG in general, but obviously that doesn't make Deus Ex a cRPG.Many games have RPG elements, and many games scratch the RPG itch, even if they are action RPGs.
Has done some things perfectly like eating much and become fat. It is even better than proper rpg in some small parts.San Andreas has RPG elements as well.It has RPG elements, though.
Not exactly a ton of them, but enough to be called an Action-RPG.
San Andreas on RPGCodex Top 100 when?
Cool, I follow now. Sometimes all this "what is an RPG?" waffle feels like Monty Python trying to cross the Bridge of Death.Hold up, but then isn't this a simple taxonomy issue? 'Cause I get the feeling that when you say "RPG" you mean "cRPG", whereas when I say "RPG" I think of the general umbrella category that includes both "cRPG" and "Action/Action-Adventure RPG." So, for instance, you've got Baldur's Gate for a cRPG and Deus Ex as an Action-Adventure RPG, they both fall under RPG in general, but obviously that doesn't make Deus Ex a cRPG.Many games have RPG elements, and many games scratch the RPG itch, even if they are action RPGs.
I do mean "cRPG" but in a general, "this is the baseline from which other games should compare to", without going too far into "if it has action, it's not an RPG" territory.
I do think Deus Ex is an "action-adventure RPG" as you said.
If you claim Cyberpunk 2077 is not an RPG, then you have to explain how Witcher 3 is Codex RPGOTY 2015. Apparently you are in the minority on this prestigious site.
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The argument is more around how it's handled. Deus Ex has that "hold the reticule over the enemy and wait for it to get smaller" system which puts a halt to gameplay and is absolute dogshit. There's probably better examples, but tying it directly to spread and having it tighten as the player levels up is how GRAND THEFT AUTO: SAN ANDREAS, THE GREATEST RPG OF ALL TIME handled it and I really enjoyed the progression from shitty gangster who can barely hit the broad side of a barn to master assassin/sharpshooter that game offers, especially when you learned how to dual wield SMGs and turned into a hyper mobile death machine.Just an observation here, but as a system concept, why do you feel that tying bullet spread to skill progression is that much worse than non-progressing bullet spread? Because most modern FPS games have bullet spread, at least they did last time I checked, and they have it varying with those exact same triggers of recoil and movement sway. Balance aside, all the Deus Ex formula does is slap it onto a progression scale with skill points.The problem really is that the effect of skills on combat in a real-time environment is rarely satisfying. It results in either a frustrating miss fest because skills are tied to to-hit chance (Morrowind at low levels, Deus Ex's implementation of aiming, VTMB too iirc)
No argument on skill-based damage scaling, I'm not a fan of that in Action-RPGs.
Forget survival mode, just play a Horizon modlist like F4EE 1.2
Maybe i'll give F4 another whirl with survival mode, maybe that will change my perspective.
I would recommend it. Then again I am a sucker for those things in rpgs, and it really elevates Fallout NV for me. Getting a level up and new skills/perks feels much more rewarding, when instead of dealing 5% more damage it now means you have to worry about dying from aids much less.
Fallout 4 has a better dialogue system than CP2077. In FO4 you are presented with different choices, usually at least 3-4. In CP2077 there's one choice usually, sometimes you get two if you're really lucky, and the dialogue that your character speaks is pretty generic, doesn't change.I employ a very loose definition of RPG by which a lot of stuff can pass as one that passes not for a lot of people. Witcher, Fallout 3-4, that one Terminator game, Elder Scrolls, all are (bad) rpgs to me. Cyberpunk is not.
It is as much of an RPG as Borderlands. It is a looter shooter with unusually distinct character classes.
Why would you consider Fallout 4 an RPG but Cyberpunk not? I would see it the other way around.
So what is the defining quality, basically?
No you are not.Fallout 4 has a better dialogue system than CP2077. In FO4 you are presented with different choices, usually at least 3-4.
Fallout 4 has a better dialogue system than CP2077.
We need to hold new polls without the poles and non-rpgsIf you claim Cyberpunk 2077 is not an RPG, then you have to explain how Witcher 3 is Codex RPGOTY 2015. Apparently you are in the minority on this prestigious site.
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Easy.
This site is inundated with poles and other assorted east fags spamming the forum with their shit games.
DISQUALIFIED
Fallout 4 has a better dialogue system than CP2077.I employ a very loose definition of RPG by which a lot of stuff can pass as one that passes not for a lot of people. Witcher, Fallout 3-4, that one Terminator game, Elder Scrolls, all are (bad) rpgs to me. Cyberpunk is not.
It is as much of an RPG as Borderlands. It is a looter shooter with unusually distinct character classes.
Why would you consider Fallout 4 an RPG but Cyberpunk not? I would see it the other way around.
So what is the defining quality, basically?
Still better than Cyberpunk 2077Fallout 4 has a better dialogue system than CP2077.I employ a very loose definition of RPG by which a lot of stuff can pass as one that passes not for a lot of people. Witcher, Fallout 3-4, that one Terminator game, Elder Scrolls, all are (bad) rpgs to me. Cyberpunk is not.
It is as much of an RPG as Borderlands. It is a looter shooter with unusually distinct character classes.
Why would you consider Fallout 4 an RPG but Cyberpunk not? I would see it the other way around.
So what is the defining quality, basically?