World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Avarize]

In another time I might actually be excited by a super triple A sequel to Beyond Good and Evil, but not in our present. The game had a somewhat ethnic female protag. The sequel is going to be jerking off on that while doing little else.

Just call it what it is. She's a nigger.

The protag of the previous game was more Mediterranean than black. Dunno about the new one.

 

[GhostCow]

Oh yeah sorry I misread. I thought you were talking about the new one

 

[Wesp5]

Was Schlutter one of these producers?

Yes, but I know little about him. I met Florian Schwarzer in person though who started in the mod scene and isn't on B2 anymore either. You might know him as the guy from the clan video interviews.

To be fair to Paradox, I always thought they recognized how important modding was to the type of games they'd previously made.

At least the first B2 team recognized it as well, after all it was them who contacted me, because they knew without my patch and the other mods Bloodlines would have been dead years ago.

Is Unreal very moddable or is it extremely mod-resistant? Or does it depend on the company and how it uses the engine?

As far I know it's mod-restistant unless the company gives you the resources. Which they rarely do...

 

[Duraframe300]

In another time I might actually be excited by a super triple A sequel to Beyond Good and Evil, but not in our present. The game had a somewhat ethnic female protag. The sequel is going to be jerking off on that while doing little else.

Beyond Good and Evil was just one of those games that was really imaginative and fun. Though through a modern context people would probably (undeservedly) look down on some of its mechanics.

What the sequel has become is just appalling and I hope everyday it gets cancelled.

 

[thesheeep]

As far I know it's mod-restistant unless the company gives you the resources. Which they rarely do...

Pretty much this.
It's not like Unity where mod support can be pretty much hacked in "easily" - due to most of it just being C# assemblies.

 

[Fenix]

Don't forget the future of gaming: AAAA games.

First time hearing about this.

 

[Wesp5]

Pretty much this.
It's not like Unity where mod support can be pretty much hacked in "easily" - due to most of it just being C# assemblies.

The reason why we could fix Bloodlines so much in the first place was that the dialogues were normal text files and the coding was Python code in text that was compiled when the game run.

 

[prengle]

As far I know it's mod-restistant unless the company gives you the resources. Which they rarely do...

Pretty much this.
It's not like Unity where mod support can be pretty much hacked in "easily" - due to most of it just being C# assemblies.

yet another consequence of literally the entire fucking industry banking on the same two shitty soulless game engines. unity and unreal sux!!!

 

[Eli_Havelock]

yet another consequence of literally the entire fucking industry banking on the same two shitty soulless game engines. unity and unreal sux!!!

...and then there's Bethbryo, where modding exists as a way for paying customers to make their games not shitty and to patch far more competently than the company can bother to for almost a decade of re-releasing the same game.

Pity again for the codependent console consumer cattle on that one.

 

[santino27]

As far I know it's mod-restistant unless the company gives you the resources. Which they rarely do...

Pretty much this.
It's not like Unity where mod support can be pretty much hacked in "easily" - due to most of it just being C# assemblies.

yet another consequence of literally the entire fucking industry banking on the same two shitty soulless game engines. unity and unreal sux!!!

...not sure if you read what you were quoting, but it stated one of the few GOOD things about Unity... that it's fairly moddable.

 

[Cael]

As far I know it's mod-restistant unless the company gives you the resources. Which they rarely do...

Pretty much this.
It's not like Unity where mod support can be pretty much hacked in "easily" - due to most of it just being C# assemblies.

yet another consequence of literally the entire fucking industry banking on the same two shitty soulless game engines. unity and unreal sux!!!

...not sure if you read what you were quoting, but it stated one of the few GOOD things about Unity... that it's fairly moddable.

Isn't one of the complaints of Unity is that you need to download EVERYTHING every time a change is made because it is not modular? That lead to insane download times multiple times?

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

...and then there's Bethbryo, where modding exists as a way for paying customers to make their games not shitty and to patch far more competently than the company can bother to for almost a decade of re-releasing the same game.

Whenever I hear someone talk about bethbryo, I can't help but point out that afaik, it's one of the few (if not actually the only) RPG engine that has full AI control over NPCs across the whole game world. Think it hugely contributes to the lived-in feel of those games when they manage to pull it off right.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

Whenever I hear someone talk about bethbryo, I can't help but point out that afaik, it's one of the few (if not actually the only) RPG engine that has full AI control over NPCs across the whole game world. Think it hugely contributes to the lived-in feel of those games when they manage to pull it off right.

You mean when Obsidian is using it, as Bethesda's randomized references-by-numbers barf across a map that put deathclaws right next to the Republic of Dave rather destroys any sense of world building. The total cacophony of Fallout 4 is even less of a world. TES' world building has been in decline since Morrowind. The boner Bethesda have for auto-scaling on top of that helps destroy the feeling of any kind of progression. So basically New Vegas and Morrowind are the two "pull it off right" as you have to mod the shit out of everything else to make them playable.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

You mean when Obsidian is using it, as Bethesda's randomized references-by-numbers barf across a map that put deathclaws right next to the Republic of Dave rather destroys any sense of world building. The total cacophony of Fallout 4 is even less of a world. TES' world building has been in decline since Morrowind. The boner Bethesda have for auto-scaling on top of that helps destroy the feeling of any kind of progression. So basically New Vegas and Morrowind are the two "pull it off right" as you have to mod the shit out of everything else to make them playable.

Yeah bethesdolt is bethesdolt, but the underlying engine is ofc the same, which is why awesomely reactive shenanigans like Sim Settlements can happen.

 

[a Goat]

Remember, when you guys were pretending to be hyped, I've already told you that the game will be bad, just like the prequel.

 

[Semiurge]

Wesp5 is the odious chalice in Bloodlines supposed to keep excess blood points in reserve when you use it? I thought it was, but all points are always consumed completely when I use it, no matter how many my character already has.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

Yeah bethesdolt is bethesdolt, but the underlying engine is ofc the same, which is why awesomely reactive shenanigans like Sim Settlements can happen.

Yup, but it's still a walled garden that is quite locked up.

Bethbryo: walled garden
Source 2: walled garden by merit of Valve stuffing both thumbs up their collective asses to indefinitely twiddle about any real game development besides chasing fads
Unreal: licensing fees put more money into nuEA starting to become as bad of a rent-taker as Valve
Unity: can be modded but several developers consider it a mistake to continue using it, notably ex-Origin/LGS. It's the reason why Shroud of the Avatar could be exploited if anyone bothered to - but it does a convincing job of being the scapegoat for anything breaking.

 

[Wesp5]

Wesp5 is the odious chalice in Bloodlines supposed to keep excess blood points in reserve when you use it?

I actually don't know, but as this behaviour is hard-coded I couldn't change it anyway.

 

[Tacgnol]

Yeah bethesdolt is bethesdolt, but the underlying engine is ofc the same, which is why awesomely reactive shenanigans like Sim Settlements can happen.

Yup, but it's still a walled garden that is quite locked up.

Bethbryo: walled garden
Source 2: walled garden by merit of Valve stuffing both thumbs up their collective asses to indefinitely twiddle about any real game development besides chasing fads
Unreal: licensing fees put more money into nuEA starting to become as bad of a rent-taker as Valve
Unity: can be modded but several developers consider it a mistake to continue using it, notably ex-Origin/LGS. It's the reason why Shroud of the Avatar could be exploited if anyone bothered to - but it does a convincing job of being the scapegoat for anything breaking.

The big issue with Unity and Unreal is that neither use particularly open formats.

Unity modding ironically allows you a lot more control over things like game logic due to access to the binaries, but at the same time makes even simple graphical mods a complete nightmare due to all the Unity asset formats.

UE4 is almost entirely locked down by default and the "official" modding support is fairly questionable and from most of their examples seems to mostly come down to basic map and level creation facilities.

Most devs probably don't really care if people mod their games, in most cases it's entirely beneficial for them with the exception of MP stuff. That said, they aren't going to go out of their way in most cases to make a game moddable, and if the engine doesn't support it (either via easily editable external files or official support), they won't bother to support it.

Also doesn't help that so many modern engines use copyrighted proprietary formats. For example, Total War series post Rome 2 uses some stupid licensed music format that modders don't have access to, therefore there aren't any music mods for Atilla onwards.

 

[Gordian Nutt]

The big issue with Unity and Unreal is that neither use particularly open formats.

Unity modding ironically allows you a lot more control over things like game logic due to access to the binaries, but at the same time makes even simple graphical mods a complete nightmare due to all the Unity asset formats.

UE4 is almost entirely locked down by default and the "official" modding support is fairly questionable and from most of their examples seems to mostly come down to basic map and level creation facilities.

Most devs probably don't really care if people mod their games, in most cases it's entirely beneficial for them with the exception of MP stuff. That said, they aren't going to go out of their way in most cases to make a game moddable, and if the engine doesn't support it (either via easily editable external files or official support), they won't bother to support it.

Also doesn't help that so many modern engines use copyrighted proprietary formats. For example, Total War series post Rome 2 uses some stupid licensed music format that modders don't have access to, therefore there aren't any music mods for Atilla onwards.

thank you for this answer, it is very helpful - UE4 feels like a non-moddable engine so maybe not a good use for a game where you want modding

Also so glad Wesp5 is on this thread, you do good work that devs seem unable to do

 

[Zombra]

Don't forget the future of gaming: AAAA games.

 

[Roguey]

I do enjoy posting doom-and-gloom Glassdoor reviews about this company.

January 11, 2021
"Uncertain past, shaky future"
Current Employee - Software Developer in Seattle, WA
Doesn't Recommend
Negative Outlook
Disapproves of CEO

I have been working at Hardsuit Labs full-time

Pros

Easy job interview

Most devs directly working on project are great

As long as big project going, some short-term security

Can talk with high-level execs

Cons

Can talk with high-level execs, but talk won't bolster morale or provide clear direction

Agendas vs. results often skewed, can spend too much time on abstract politics and personal agendas vs. making the game and getting something running in-engine

FPS studio making an RPG with little experience

Too easy job interviews, results in questionable hires

High turnover rate

Growing nepotism in design/writing

System design skills weak

Poor training in production and lead roles

Future is uncertain after big project is released

Advice to Management

Figure out next steps, communicate them confidently

Recognize past mistakes on project, but also act on them

Please have a more thorough interview process

I'm puzzled how this guy put "easy job interview" as a pro and then followed it up with "Actually it's too easy, needs to be harder and more thorough" and "Most devs directly working on project are great" followed by "devs making an RPG with little experience," "growing nepotism," and "system design skills weak." What makes them great then? I suppose maybe the artists have it together.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

I guess you can be glad that you got in easily, but also recognise that it's ultimately a negative aspect of the company.

 

[Duraframe300]

I guess you can be glad that you got in easily, but also recognise that it's ultimately a negative aspect of the company.

Yeah, that's how I read it too.

 

[Dycedarg]

"Most devs directly working on project are great" followed by "devs making an RPG with little experience," "growing nepotism," and "system design skills weak." What makes them great then? I suppose maybe the artists have it together.

When this person says they're great, he probably means he likes them as people, not as professionals. If you're wanting to gain some experience, collect your paycheck and don't really care where the project is going, this sounds like a good place to work. But it's funny that most people leaving sound exasperated with the leadership.